Opinions or experience about AA
 

Hi, everyone. I have been in and out of AA for 4 years now. I hate that I can't stick to it.. and I'm not bashing AA or downing AA, because I want to be able to commit to it.. but for some reason my mind finds ways to always question AA. I think AA is great for people who don't want to feel alone and have a sense of support.. but some things really bother me sometimes. And here are a few things.. and please do not get offended, I just want advice on how to perceive AA more positively, because the truth is.. I'm tired of drinking and I do not want to do it anymore.. so here's my list.. and please give me honest feedback..

1) The Third Step:

I have no problem admitting I have a problem over alcohol.. I just don't understand how to give your life over to God.. does this mean I do not have control over my life anymore? Isn't this more like having an external focus of control instead of an internal focus of control? I learned that it was better to have an internal locus of control, and people who do are more sucesssful.. This step confuses me.. also being agnostic does not help because I feel like I'm telling an imaginary friend to help me to stop drinking. Also I don't like knowing I have NO control at all.. I understand we can't control everything.. but we do have some control of things.

2) The Hardcore AAers:

I like that some people are passionate about their sobriety.. but some people can sound like they are self-righteous.. is AA the ONLY way to recover? It's 2012.. how come people bash any other way of treating alcoholism?

3) The pettyness:

Sometimes meetings people seem to bicker over such pettyness.. many people in AA don't even seem really happy

4) Not giving credit to yourself:

How come it's frowned upon to give yourself a pat on the back for staying sober? I understand you got help, but realistically it was YOU that got yourself sober.. right?

5) Self esteem:

I understand ego can be destructive.. but some people continuously bash themselves.. saying "yeah I'm not smart" or "don't let be in control or I'll screw it up" or "I have to do the opposite of what I think"... is it not okay to have confidence? Eventually I want to be confident again.. not cocky.. but have a healthy self-esteem.. doesn't this type of talk prevent it?

I love AA for a lot of things also.. I think it's great moral support.. and some things such as learning acceptance, helping others, and the common feeling amongst people is great and that's way I do not want to feel this way.

Again, please don't take offense to what I'm saying.. because I want help.. and I don't want to think of AA in a negative way.. it's just this stuff continuously bothers me when I'm back in AA.. if anyone has opinions or any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.. thank you :-)

Hi dgajdusek :)

I'm not in AA but I think some of those brush stokes are pretty wide...

some groups and some people may fit your characterisations, but others, people and experiences I've met here, clearly do not :)

I'm sure you'll hear from other AAers with suggestions on how your might optimise your AA experience :)

but..if in the end you really feel AA's not doing it for you - the good news is AA does not have a monopoly on recovery :)

There's many different approaches and methods of recovery around - here's some links to some of the main players:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html

I recommend you visit the Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach :)

D

Please Google and read AA's "The Doctors Opinion", "How It Works" and "The Promises of Alcoholics Anonymous".

Try the other paths ..... I wish you the best. AA will be there when you need it.

Bob R

Hi,
I am pretty new at this AA thing but I feel like you are melding the program and the fellowship into one thing. The fellowship (the people, meetings, etc) give me moral support, a feeling of not being alone, etc. But it's not the program. Here's my newbie opinion.
1) The 3rd step says turn your will over to God as we understand him. I am an athiest so obviously my HP is not God. For me, I use the rooms. I feel that wisdom and good come out of the people involved. As far as turning your life over, I've come to realize that I have very little control over most things anyway. Anything from the weather, my job, my family-all are not controlled by me and when I try, I am very unhappy. Now, that being said, I can control my actions, thoughts, etc. I don't "pray" on these things but I do try to do some self reflection daily. What is the right thing to do? What are the healthy attitudes I can bring to a situation? I find I am much happier and peaceful now that I have let go.
2) Of course there are other avenues to recovery. This is just the one that's working for me. Just like anything else (religion, politics), you will be able to find zealots who are convinced that the only way is their way. Obviously, those people haven't fully realized the 3rd step. Trying to control again. Sometimes, on the other hand, you become so "high" on success that you want to share it with the world. This has a more positive motive even though it may come off as self-righteous.
3)see above. In every group, you can find the unhappy, complaining types who need to spread their inner misery. Again they're not really working the program. However, I do find that they are in the minority. Instead of letting it upset me, I just walk away. Like it says in AA, "if you want what we have", I only hang with those who have what i want. Success breeds success. Positive attitudes are contangious.
4) Who said it was not ok to give yourself a pat on the back? Every time I get a coin and the group claps, it's for me and my accomplishment. Every time someone in a group announces a positive outcome, people smile, clap, and are genuinely encouraging. Or least that's what I choose to see. Are you referring to the thanks to a higher power? As I said, my HP is a tad untraditional, I do feel that my accomplishments are greatly helped by an outside force and would not take all of the credit. But that's me.
5) Ok, this one I honestly don't get. How does being an AA member cut down your self-esteem? Mine hasn't been better in years. Not drinking combined with the 4th step really is helping me deal with a lot of past actions. I did a lot of stupid things when I was drinking. Burned a lot of bridges. Hurt a lot of people. Including myself. While I don't feel good about those things, they are not crushing me under a wave of guilt and shame.

Again, take this with a grain of salt. They are my opinions only. Just like anything else, there are many takes on AA. If, in the end, it's not helping then seek out something else. Or there's nothing saying you cannot combine methods.
BTW, no offense taken. You are in charge of your recovery and it's success and it's up to you to find the best thing for you.

1) The Third Step:
read how it works from right after (c) on pg 60 up to 2nd paragraph on pg 63. it explains what the 3rd step is about.

2) The Hardcore AAers:

I like that some people are passionate about their sobriety.. but some people can sound like they are self-righteous.. is AA the ONLY way to recover? It's 2012.. how come people bash any other way of treating alcoholism?

no, AA is not the only way. some poeple can be sick and suffer from spiritual pride. no matter which program or method of being used to recover, we are sick people. it happens.

3) The pettyness:

Sometimes meetings people seem to bicker over such pettyness.. many people in AA don't even seem really happy

length of sobriety doesnt determine mental, emotional, or spiritual sobriety. seek out the fellowship you crave.


5) Self esteem:

I understand ego can be destructive.. but some people continuously bash themselves.. saying "yeah I'm not smart" or "don't let be in control or I'll screw it up" or "be confident again.. not cocky.. but have a healthy self-esteem.. doesn't this type of talk prevent it?


yes, its ok to be confident. but over confident and thinking i know everything or i can control anything is over confident and gets me in trouble. people that say they arent that smart and dont want to be in control are humble people. it doesnt mean they arent smart. we drunks are actually quite intelligent people. thats what got us into trouble.

"I have to do the opposite of what I think"...

that can be a toughy, that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. early on, i had to do the same. when a decision came up, it was my thinking from many years of thinkin the way i was so that thinkin would be first and it wasnt right. as time has gone on, my thinkin has gotten better and the right decision comes to mind. however, i still get times where i have to take it easy and wait for the right thought to come up.


the best advise i could give is to go up to the one who has what ya want and tell em they are gonna be your sponsor and guide you though the steps.

Hi dga,

Ill try answer some of your questions based on my own experience with AA. With the Third Step, we turn our will over to God, being your HP as you see it. In my experience, I have more control over my life now realizing that I just surrender to God instead of trying to control everything and things just happen as they should happen instead of "me" running the show and it has helped me manage my life a lot better I am not so quick to jump at every assumption and I have a stronger handle on my emotions. I suggest reading the first 168 pages in the BB especially the Doctor''s Opionion and " To The Agnostics" it will answer the questions you have better than I could. Many of us alcoholics cant get this simple program at first because we are intelligent people and like to analyze things to death and I know I am one of these people but my sponsor showed me I must surrender and she was right because my life is a lot more manageable now.

You will find all different kinds of people in all meetings you attend. Some I can relate to and others I listen to and take what I need. Some are sicker than others in the rooms and some have different perceptions on handling their own sobriety because it has worked for them.

Its human nature to gossip and speak negatively and I know for myself that I pay attention to what people are sharing in the meeting or how they relate to others. I follow those who are filled with inspiration but yet are humble and I will ask them to be in my network. I stay away from those who come from a negative place because my sobriety depends on staying positive.

I never heard it was frowned upon to stay sober.. I know the people in the meetings I attend want to support you and you should be proud of yourself its not an easy path. My HO has helped me stay sober but in order to understand it read the BB, get yourself a sponsor and start working the steps and it will just come if you are honest and really work the program.

You have some valid questions I am pretty new to AA myself but I hope I have shared some light.

AA isnt for everyone, and everyone isnt for AA. The program isnt for those that need it, deserve it, or want it. Its for those that are willing to do anything it takes to get sober. It seems like some look for any excuse to not be successful in AA.

The "God" thing is a big one. Where was our "belief system" when we were out there drinking and drugging? Three minutes sober and we become religous zealots.

Hardcore AA'rs, mostly they can see through our weak attempts and BS, and let us know it. Thats why we dont like them.

Pettyness, this whole thread is a good example of that.

Self esteem, I came into the rooms with no self esteem and quickly advanced to low self esteem. Thats progress.

There are many ways to get sober, but I only know of one that worked for me. I had to adopt a different way of thinking in order to get sober. Hmm, maybe that is that "God" thing. Just sayin...

Not everyone 'needs' AA.

Your post seems quite condescending.

Believing AA is the only way is wrong and deluded.

Yeah, I just saw there is a DVD you can buy that will get you sober.....

So, no-one ever stayed sober, ever, without dedicating themselves to the fellowship of AA?

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

Im sure they do. Never said otherwise.

I'd like this thread to remain positive and useful.

We can do that not by offering opinions on the methods other people use...but by focusing on whats worked for us.

thanks :)

D

Oh, I read your 'dvd' comment the wrong way then.

Fair enough.

Thanks Dee thats some pretty harsh comments. Its okay to question and your post did not sound condescending.

No you didnt, I was being an a$$hole. Cant help it sometimes. Apology given....

1) The Third Step:
Step 3 has an important word in it and that word is care. We always have self-will. For me, the first 3 steps prepare me for step 4 where I will be under the care of a power greater than me so I can get through that stuff. Then move on with the rest of the steps. 10, 11, 12 daily after that. Simple, not easy.

2) The Hardcore AAers:
The AA textbook, the one we study, says that AA is NOT for everybody nor does it work for everybody. Some people forget to study it. AA has been around for 77 years with another program or two working in a similar manner 100 years prior to this.

AA is more often than not the last house on the block. Our last hope. When we fully concede to our inner most being that we have alcoholism, that our way doesn't work and we don't know what else to do, so we go to any lengths to stay stopped and we work the 12 steps to save our life.

The people who claim otherwise probably don't study the big book and may rely on meetings to keep them sober, who knows what they do? Meeting makers make a lot of meetings. The new solution is working the steps into one's life.

3) The pettyness:
Those with alcoholism like to be right. We want to be heard. Sometimes it's our way or the highway. It happens. There was once a meeting to decide to add something to the big book, on the "first page," unfortunately, the group could NOT decide which page was the first page. End result: no change to the big book. Even without alcohol in us, we can be pretty difficult to deal with! Learn from this, too.

4) Not giving credit to yourself & Self Esteem:
Once we've worked through the steps and have had a spiritual awakening, we give credit to a power greater than ourselves because when I play god, I get drunk. Unfortunately, many alcoholics still suffer from a self-centered problem even after working the steps, or it could be that our ego just likes to rebuild itself. No one is better than another in a meeting, but we are human and our defects can flare.

Some people totally defend a program that seriously changed their lives or have given them a life to live. It's complicated. Learn from it, you don't have to be that way!

Lack of self esteem could also be people attempting to be humble, but still not being perfect with it. Again, the ego rebuilds itself and can get in the way.

If AA isn't the last resort for you and you aren't willing to go to any lengths to stay stopped, then maybe try another program to work in your life. AVRT, Rational Recovery, SMART, SOS, Women for Recovery, LifeRing are all viable options to research and consider.
Until we stay stopped for a period of time (a year+), we won't see the damage that alcohol has caused. How deluded our thinking is. How we really aren't well, yet.

Find a program that works and work it like your life depends upon it. Alcoholism can be an awfully slow suicide for many of us. Sometimes my alcoholism can show up in other substances, too, but in AA, the primary message is to carry the message that we can recover from alcoholism.....

I wish you well on your choice!

Love & hugs,

Most nearly all of us need *something*.
I've tried and tried and tried AA till I'm blue in the face.
I have personal issues that need to be dealt with before - if at all - I can fully partake in AA. It may never happen.
That is not the point.
Your post does not say whether you are sober currently or not, just that you've tried AA off and on for four years. If you have not been sober, then something has to change. Obviously having control of your own life has not done you any good - I had to admit this even though I am not "working AA".

As Dee gave the link earlier, I ended up using several different programs listed in that thread. So far? It's worked for me and my life has changed/is changing so rapidly I feel like all I can do is hold on tight and enjoy the ride and wind whipping through my hair. I was willing to do anything that my psyche was willing to do. Desperation. Because I was coming to the realization that what I had done to myself, my life up to that point was ruining and I was no good at it.

Good luck to you and I truly hope you find something that works for you.

Wonderfully said Sugarbear!

No offense meant, but, frankly, this particular section of the forum is probably the last place to have a meaningful discussion about what step 3 is about.... It is an intense experience, that for many, is highly personal.... I share my experience with it at meetings and in the 12 step support section of this forum....

Otherwise, it just sounds like so much bible thumping and, yes, self righteousness....

AA isn't for all of us. For some of us it works wonders, for others not so much. But I have to say that I was ready to give it up until I "let go completely" I was stuck on the step 3 thing for a very long time as well, because I used to be agnostic. However I have since found something to believe in (it doesnt matter what it is, as long as it makes sense to me!). It works for me, because I believe in it. I know its very hard to find something if you don't believe in it.

Have you tried any other programs?

The Third Step
The 12 Steps and 12 Traditions helped me a ton with step 3. I specifically talks about "having no control". I agree with your statement, there are many things I can't control, but there are many that I can, thus, the serenity prayer. Reading "We agnostics" can help tool. You may be surprised at the number of agnostics that have recovered using AA. It is possible.

Hardcore AArs
there will always be people that go 'over-the-top'. It's just a fact. Anyone AAr that tells you there way is the only way is, in my opinion, not living by the principles. It directly contradicts what the book says.

Pettiness
Yeah, again, it's a fact. Ignore it and the people who perpetuate it.

Self-esteem
You deserve all the happiness sobriety can bring you. Sometimes that means taking a hard look at yourself and your past behaviors. The hard truth sometimes is that we we're so into ourselves we thought we were owed something. On there hand, internally, we were beating ourselves up. For me, it's a double-edged sword .. I have to find the right balance of loving myself and remaining as humble as possible.

I am going to try my best to give my experience on what you have asked.

3rd Step:
When I drank I did my will. My will got me into the rooms of AA. Doing God's will is living the AA program, the steps. When I came into the rooms I didn't understand giving my life over to God either. I am a control freak and I want to control. When I read the 12 and 12 book, I got a better understanding. After working the steps, I realized my problem with step 3 was I still had drinks in me. It took me 3 years of being in the rooms to finally surrender.

The Hardcore AAers:
I am a Hardcore AAer, because it is what saved me. Is AA the only way to recover? It was the only way for me. I only have experience in what worked for me. No other way worked for me.

The pettyness:
There is pettyness everywhere. Go to different meetings, I am sure you will find happy people.

Not giving credit to yourself:
I didn't get myself sober. I wanted to be sober for 3 years before I got it. What got me sober was working the steps and living the AA program. I don't deserve a pat on the back.

Self-esteem:
I had no self-esteem when I walked into the doors of AA. I was beaten. I hated myself and was only alive because I didn't want to leave my daughter an orphan. Today I love myself. Can I be critical? Yes, sometimes. I no longer look in the mirror and hate what I see.

Only you can decide if AA is correct for you. Us who have been successful are passionate about it, because it saved our lives. Wish you the best of luck!!

There will be no problem for you to be an agnostic in AA. Atheist/agnostic's in AA have achieved decades of being recovered from alcoholism. Some freethinking AA members edit out the quasi-religious bits, others do the necessary mental gymnastics to work the 12 Step program of AA.

Jimmy B, forth original AA member who argued to include "as you understand Him" into the 12-steps was an atheist that went to his grave with 3 decades of sobriety in AA. He wrote:What helps me stay in AA is knowing how other atheist stay in AA and recover by using AA as a primary means alcoholism treatment. Below ar some very helpful links to informat and experiences for the freethinker in AA.

Agnostic/Atheist in AAOne axiom that have saved my sanity and life in recovery is: take what is helpful and leave the rest. That especially is true for what other AA members say or write about AA.

True, generally speaking the attitude of 'AA or Die' is alienating than encouraging.

I and others like myself came into AA battered, beat-up and bused in the brain from decades of drinking alcoholically. Talk about having a 'stinky thinker'...LOL. So I take that in account when I socially mix with other alkies.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I don't believe that there is a "one size fits all" approach towards recovery. We are all individuals, with different personalities, beliefs, strengths and weaknesses and receptivity.

For me personally, AA is a hard sell. However, there is no reason to completely reject AA if parts of it do appeal to you. As with anything, you can embrace the parts that work for you and still participate while showing your respect to the overall good of the program by keeping to yourself components of the program that you disagree with. It's part of independent thinking. If looking for a sponsor, I'm sure that there are many people in AA who are flexible and embrace parts of the program, but not its entirety. You'd be able to suss that out with some questions about what they like best about the program and least, what steps they felt were the most and least meaningful to them, etc.

Not all AA groups are alike, nor are all AA members alike.

I'm going to use a parallel here. I was raised in a strict Catholic household. During my first confession, I ran out of the confessional in tears, absolutely terrified. My father told me that I did not have to go to confession (a sacrament), because "No one but God can forgive your sins." My dad is a scientist and as the years passed, I began to realize that things he said were not in keeping with a lot of Catholic doctrine. He does not believe in heaven, as he cannot conceive of the space for all those souls...kind of funny that a scientist is limiting himself to earthly dimensions. He goes to church for the sense of community and because he firmly believes in the teachings of Christ, a radical, and Christian values, which he exemplifies in his daily living.

If my father were to espouse his true beliefs in church, he would not be considered a good Catholic. He is however, a good Christian, and church fulfills a need for him, the congregation and the community. Likewise, I believe that it is possible for people to do the same with AA.

I get your frustrations. I hear where you are coming from. A good sponsor would be the perfect person to talk to about all of this, but since the questions are presented here, I will throw my experience out there for what its worth.

1) Look at your track record. How has life been working for you since you have been managing it? Going great? Cool, no need to proceed. Going poorly? Maybe consider giving up control. The process of actually turning over your will and life to the care of God as you understand him, takes place in teh remaining steps. With step 3 you are simply deciding that your way is not working out too well and you are willing to do the rest of the steps. Giving over control is a scary thought, but I have found that every area of my life that I allow my God to manage runs a lot, and I mean A LOT smoother.

2) There are other ways to get sober. But AA is not the place to look for other ways. Go to AA if you want AA.
Some people are passionate about this thing. Who can blame them? It saved their lives. Its hard to go anywhere where there is a lot of people and not encountered self righteousness.

3)There are many people in AA who are strictly "meeting makers." As for actual program, they have none. As a result they arent happy. Then there are folks who are enthusiastic about life, follow the program, find joy in helping others and carry a great message. Both types of people are examples. Its your choice which example you wish to follow.

4)Selfishness and self centerdness are the root of our problem. Ego deflation is part of the process of gaining some humility. It is important to get credit for things we accomplish, but it is more important to understand we must give credit where credit is due. If I believe I am keeping myself sober, what do I need AA for?

5) A definition of humility that I like is simply "right sized." I should not think to highly or lowly of myself. Both are a lack of humility. AA is a group of alcoholics. There is a major deficiency of humility among most of us. You will see it goes both ways. Beating myself up is just as self centered as bragging. Confidence is crucial and is built as one works the steps, but over confidence or cockiness should be avoided. Again, there are examples of both which you can follow. THe choice is yours.

AA is by no means perfect. Far from it. It is the imperfections themselves which allow it to be a spiritual program.
Open mindedness is essential. That is coming from me, who struggles with open mindedness in meetings all the time. It is a practice. Try different meetings. Try to leave your judgments at the door and try to look for examples of what you want and go for it.

Thanks for putting these questions out here. It gave me some great stuff to ponder.Wish you the best.

Here is how I look at these,
1“Turning over” ones will, is not in a sense, possible. We always make our own decisions. The question is, do we follow the guidance from another source (that we have decided has a better way of doing things) when it conflicts with what we want to do?
2)As far as #2 and #3 go, well, these are just opportunities to practice tolerance IMO (see #1 above for guidance in this).
3)With regard to, self-esteem and taking credit, do it! (for decisions not related to guidance from a greater power).
Thanks for being open to getting the views of others for your concerns. I think it’s a good way to move forward. Best wishes

I'm another who made AA my higher power. The third steps tells me just to work the rest of the steps. The whole key to recovery in AA is working the 12 steps. Look at any other organization and you'll see the entire list of hardcore members , pettiness, people overselling or underselling themselves, etc..

As far as other methods of recovery, I have no experience. I know AA isn't the only way.

I'm not a member of AA and I'll be the first to tell you--no offense to the AA folks--I don't like AA. It's not my thing at all. But I'll be sober 14 years in a couple of weeks, so it's pretty clear to me that AA isn't necessary for sobriety. At least not my own.

Here's the thing though. Even though there are plenty of other ways to do the recovery thing you will not find them at an AA meeting, so it is best not to look for them there. Doing so is like going to a dog show and complaining because all you see there is dogs!

Join us on the secular forums or check out something like SMART Recovery. That's a much more positive way to move forward!

There are other programs besides AA.

At times I have felt partly critical / partly accepting of AA, at times I have felt mostly critical.

Lately I feel totally accepting of it and I am doing the things that are suggested and loving it.

AA hasn't changed...hmmm...what has changed?

That's not to say that it is the program for everyone. I just want to point out that your feelings and opinions about it might change over time.