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GonzoTaxi 03-24-2012 03:56 PM

Article in WSJ
 
Did you guys see this article in the Wall Street Journal? It's been making the rounds lately. I'm not trying to diminish what this guy has done, but publishing an article about how he's cured of sobriety in a major international newspaper is probably not the best way to guarantee long term success...

My Secret to Getting Sober - WSJ.com

BackToSquareOne 03-24-2012 04:13 PM

If you read step 12 he's basically saying everyone must find their own path.


"Step Twelve: Forget Everything You've Just Read
If it worked for me, it can work for anyone, right? Wrong. The chances that any of the advice here will work for you are vanishingly slim. So, too, are the chances that reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" will result in your doing either of those things. In truth, all self-help guides are guaranteed to work only for one person: the person who wrote them.

The real secret to getting sober, and to repairing all the broken aspects of your life, is to take the time (probably through trial and error) to figure out the causes of your addiction and the aspects of your character that can be pressed into service in curing them. To do that, you'll have to figure out your own list of things you enjoy about drinking (for me: adventures, reckless spending, dating, etc.) and how you can keep those things alive through sobriety. Then you need to figure out what part of your personality will drive you to stay sober (for me: ego)."

Hevyn 03-24-2012 04:13 PM

Hi Gonzo. Judging from many of the comments I don't think his advice was very popular. Interesting article, though - I hadn't seen it. Thanks.

sugarbear1 03-24-2012 04:19 PM

It's worked for two years, so far. Whatever it takes, do it well! :)
I wish him forever sobriety!

GonzoTaxi 03-24-2012 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by BackToSquareOne (Post 3333609)
If you read step 12 he's basically saying everyone must find their own path.


"Step Twelve: Forget Everything You've Just Read
If it worked for me, it can work for anyone, right? Wrong. The chances that any of the advice here will work for you are vanishingly slim. So, too, are the chances that reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People" will result in your doing either of those things. In truth, all self-help guides are guaranteed to work only for one person: the person who wrote them.

The real secret to getting sober, and to repairing all the broken aspects of your life, is to take the time (probably through trial and error) to figure out the causes of your addiction and the aspects of your character that can be pressed into service in curing them. To do that, you'll have to figure out your own list of things you enjoy about drinking (for me: adventures, reckless spending, dating, etc.) and how you can keep those things alive through sobriety. Then you need to figure out what part of your personality will drive you to stay sober (for me: ego)."

Yup, I'm glad he put that last step in there! Everybody is indeed different and he is way ahead of me, but I do have to question is motivation in publishing the article in such a high profile way. Then again, there are many great drinking/sobriety memoirs which I suppose is sort of the same thing.

Your second paragraph is really interesting and I'm going to keep it in mind. I think we have very similar motivators. Any tips on how to maintain a lifestyle of reckless spending and fabulous dating while sober? :)

Terminally Unique 03-24-2012 04:41 PM

I don't like his Step 2:


Originally Posted by PAUL CARR
Step Two: Quit Publicly

It's perfectly possible to get sober without attending meetings and pouring out your darkest secrets to a group of strangers. Now the bad news: It is impossible for an alcoholic to quit drinking in secret. Absolutely 100% impossible.

We alcoholics and former alcoholics have proven ourselves to be very bad at turning down the opportunity to drink... you will cave in to them. Unless, that is, everyone around you knows that to offer you a drink would be not just a bad idea but a hugely selfish and dangerous one.

Absolutely 100% impossible to quit drinking unless everyone around you looks over your shoulder and never offers you a drink? What a very low opinion the man has of himself, and apparently all 'alcoholics'. Something doesn't quite jive with taking the time to dismiss 'Step 1' and AA meetings while simultaneously adopting twelve steps of your own, either. Typical shallow but compelling, and not very original.

GonzoTaxi 03-24-2012 04:55 PM

I've thought about it a little more and I think the thing that bothers me about this article is not necessarily the steps that he chose or the fact that he isn't doing AA, but that he seems to believe that he has arrived at a destination instead of being on a journey that isn't over yet. Indeed, that will never end.

2 1/2 years is not such a long time. It's when you think you've beat it that you set the groundwork for failure.

When I first hit one month, my friend said he wanted to get me a gift to congratulate me. I told him I don't get anything for a measly month. Maybe after a year, that's an accomplishment. After ten years, maybe I'll stop thinking about alcohol so much. But it won't be after I'm dead and gone that one could truly judge if I've effectively controlled my relationship with alcohol.

So that was a bit off topic, but I will say at least the 1000 dollar pen sounds pretty nice!

Terminally Unique 03-24-2012 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by GonzoTaxi (Post 3333646)
I think the thing that bothers me about this article is not necessarily the steps that he chose or the fact that he isn't doing AA, but that he seems to believe that he has arrived at a destination instead of being on a journey that isn't over yet. Indeed, that will never end.

I have no problem with that, but he's contradicting himself. He hasn't quite got a handle on it if he needs constant babysitting so he doesn't accept a drink. Whatever 'destination' he may have in mind, it doesn't sound like he's arrived. He's saying he's not powerless, while simultaneously saying that he needs constant babysitting to not drink. He writes that "recovery culture has set the bar for being an alcoholic very, very low," but that is precisely what he has done.

Boleo 03-24-2012 06:59 PM

Step Two: Quit Publicly

It's perfectly possible to get sober without attending meetings and pouring out your darkest secrets to a group of strangers. Now the bad news: It is impossible for an alcoholic to quit drinking in secret. Absolutely 100% impossible.

We alcoholics and former alcoholics have proven ourselves to be very bad at turning down the opportunity to drink. Unfortunately, the world around us is very good at offering us those opportunities—cocktail parties, dinner parties, birthdays, weddings, happy hours, wakes. As an alcoholic, you will actively—if subconsciously—seek out those opportunities, and you will cave in to them. Unless, that is, everyone around you knows that to offer you a drink would be not just a bad idea but a hugely selfish and dangerous one.

When I decided to stop, I wrote an open letter on my blog, explaining that I had a serious problem with alcohol and asking for the support of those around me. Posting on Facebook or Twitter for just your friends would work just as well. If you're worried about your professional reputation if you "come out" as an addict, you might want to consider sending a group email to a dozen or so people you trust. Believe me, word will get around. The key is for people you encounter on a day-to-day basis to be aware that you have a problem and are trying to fix it. Those people are the ones who will be your greatest allies in quitting.


This was something "The Washingtonian movement" tried and was ultimately their demise. The press made headlines of any relapse's their members had.

Terminally Unique 03-24-2012 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by Boleo (Post 3333787)
[Quitting publicly] was something "The Washingtonian movement" tried and was ultimately their demise. The press made headlines of any relapse's their members had.

This is, in fact, the real reason for AA's anonymity tradition.

gaffo 03-24-2012 08:55 PM

It seems like a fluffy piece but I think it might make some people think about their drinking, catch them off guard on the way to work. The WSJ is not where you expect to find this kind of story.

What the heck does one do with a thousand dollar pen?

TheJungianThing 03-24-2012 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by Terminally Unique (Post 3333801)
This is, in fact, the real reason for AA's anonymity tradition.

According to this "Not-God" book it's only one of them.

stillsleeping 03-24-2012 11:49 PM

Wow, thanks Gonzo (hey sweetie!)

I didn't read the whole thing, but I get the gist. It's hard to get past the startlingly arrogant writing style, actually. "100% impossible"??? Who the hell does he think he is? I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake, dammit! Who knows what I'm capable of?

So yeah, I agree with your opening post - a public way to ensure that all of us white-knuckling, still-struggling, making it but dammit it's not easy ya smug b@stard (draw a breath) recovering alcoholics kinds hope the git falls off the wagon.

Oh, I may draw some heat for that... :D

BTW, did anyone else hear Stan from American Day narrating as they were reading it? No? Read it again...

England is both sunnier and nicer than Paris, Gonzo. Just thought I'd let you know...

:)

awuh1 03-24-2012 11:49 PM

The author of the WSJ article admitted that he has never attended an AA meeting. Though he did a bit of reading, he still did not understand how the term “powerless” is used within the AA context. Anonymity is another of the often misunderstood concepts used in the AA context. The meaning has a spiritual connotation. It’s even referred to as a “spiritual foundation” within AA literature. It takes a while for people to understand how it’s used. It’s another one of those cases where you have to keep an open mind to get it. Nevertheless the author does not seem to have an ax to grind with AA, so perhaps someday he will.

dawnrunner 03-25-2012 03:30 AM

It's hard to warm up to a guy who celebrates his sobriety by spending one night in each hotel in Vegas. I mean, how much did that cost?! And what was the point?

Also, he does sound arrogant, and apparently got deeply involved with "Molly" before taking his (famously inaccurate) mail-in HIV test, so there's another strike.

But if this WSJ article reaches some people who were swimming in a vat of red wine and helps them feel they can pull the plug on their habit -per the cute illustrations - , then it will have done some good I guess.

The comments are more interesting than the article! Good dialogue.

Hollyanne 03-25-2012 03:40 AM

Thanks for that.
Boy, I pity Molly.
Codependent anyone?
Well, good luck to him, I suppose.
My father gave up drinking 20yrs ago, cold turkey and without a program.
(little bit of police and shotguns and suicide attempt thrown in, but sher.....)
He is not sober, he is dry.
He goes to mass daily. I still don't like him.

Jitterbugg 03-26-2012 10:45 PM

Wow...a recovering alcoholic staying in Las Vegas hotels for a month...completely sober. That is insane haha!

vinyl 03-28-2012 08:34 AM


Originally Posted by GonzoTaxi (Post 3333646)
I've thought about it a little more and I think the thing that bothers me about this article is not necessarily the steps that he chose or the fact that he isn't doing AA, but that he seems to believe that he has arrived at a destination instead of being on a journey that isn't over yet. Indeed, that will never end.

2 1/2 years is not such a long time. It's when you think you've beat it that you set the groundwork for failure.

When I first hit one month, my friend said he wanted to get me a gift to congratulate me. I told him I don't get anything for a measly month. Maybe after a year, that's an accomplishment. After ten years, maybe I'll stop thinking about alcohol so much. But it won't be after I'm dead and gone that one could truly judge if I've effectively controlled my relationship with alcohol.

So that was a bit off topic, but I will say at least the 1000 dollar pen sounds pretty nice!

I just wanted to thank you for this post. Though it may seem to you like you went off topic, this particular response has meant more to me than most posts around here and I'll be contemplating it the rest of the day. I think this is one of my main problems. I reach the, "I'm fine now" stage and begin to drink again. No more. I'm slowly realizing, as you mention, it's only when I reach the grave will my efforts be realized, and I plan to avoid that grave for a very long time now.

As for the article, I'm not as offended by it as some of you seem to be. He was pretty clear throughout that it was only his way of doing things and that everyone should choose their own path. That's not arrogance, that's humility, IMHO. But I can see how those who are ardent AA followers might become defensive, I guess it's only natural when you love a program so much. I get it. But I also think it's important to recognize the fact he's brought an article about recovery to the national stage, and if it helps even one person recognize their addiction, then it's an admirable effort.

Take care and be well. :)

stillsleeping 03-28-2012 11:34 PM

Nice one Vinyl. A sweet generous an level headed alcoholic, it's goin to be nice knowing you :)

I actually thought he sounded a lot AA, in that everythin he was saying was in black and white. I love AA, I think it's made uncountable differences to uncountable lives and would (and do) direct people towards it when they're in need. But a lot of its followers talk with a "this is the only way, you have to surrender, if you dont walk the steps you will fail" certainty that I rebel against.

I may change. But I won't warm to the writer of the article like I've warmed to my AA friends.

Peace xx

Haha! Not really. I prefer cheerful conflict :D

buckeye68 03-29-2012 07:55 PM

That was a nice vieled brag about the $1,000 pen. 30 days hotel hopping in Vegas? I have been to Vegas like 10 times, and after day 4 I was ready to leave each time. Not sure what you would do on day 11, let alone day 29.

miamifella 03-29-2012 08:21 PM

I thought he sounded very AA too. His second step is really an admission of powerlessness and an assertion that he could not stay sober alone--which is what the AA literature says. (The BB says that we should ask for help in staying sober, although in my experience members are discouraged from admitting the direct need for help that Carr readily cops to.)

GrowingDaily 03-29-2012 08:24 PM

I agree w/ Vinyl. I didn't see much of a problem with it, particularly after the author underscored the fact more than once that this was his method, not something everyone else should follow.

I also agree with the author's view on the powerless bit, in relation to my own efforts. I believe in a higher power, but I also believe in my own power. Confidence in my ability to succeed is, as far as I'm concerned, critical for my success. But just like the author - that's what works for me. That said, I think there's a deeper value in the 12 steps that the author is overlooking.

PaleMale 03-30-2012 06:17 AM

As someone else mentioned, he took the HIV test long after he started seeing "Molly". Sorry, but that's a real jerk thing to do! Wonder if she'll find THAT sexy...

I find almost no spiritual (humble) growth or life affirming about this story. His life is as narrow, self absorbed and cynical it was before.

I wish him the best and it certainly takes time to develop a quality sobriety. His path has just begun.

BlueMoon 03-30-2012 11:53 AM


Step Three: Don't Fear Failure
Try to figure out why you fell off the wagon and vow never to do it again.


I “fell off the wagon” for EIGHT YEARS – each time SWEARING that I’d never do it again. Then I figured out that the REASON I drank was BECAUSE I’M AN ALCOHOLIC and I need HELP to achieve/maintain sobriety.


Step Three: Don't Fear Failure (again)
If you do screw up once, forget it. You're human. Give yourself one chance, and don't even feel the need to share your failure with anyone.

Step Five: Stop Lying
I'd always had a problem with truth—


No doubt. I’ve always considered “omitted truths” to be the same as a lie – especially when it involves people who care about you + who are trying to help.


Step Five: Stop Lying
Shortly after I quit drinking, I also decided to quit lying, cold turkey.


Except for when it meant telling the truth obviously.


Step Six: Stop Apologizing
In AA, they're very clear on what to do about friends you have wronged. Except where it would be harmful (for them), you should contact everyone you've upset, apologize, and do some unspecified thing to make it up to them. But this struck me as self-indulgent.


Strongly disagree but I won’t expand on that statement.


Step Seven: Rediscover Dating
Molly reached across the table and squeezed my hand. "Honesty is sexy." I suppose she was telling the truth: We've been together for almost two years.


There’s that pesky Truth again . . .


Step Eight: Replace Your Ridiculous Drunken Stories With Ridiculous Sober Ones
Step Nine: Spend Money on Stuff You Won't Lose


Bragging.


Step Ten: Take a Difficult Test

Bragging.


Step Eleven: Work Nicer, Not Just Harder and Smarter
For most of my career, I was neither a functioning nor a nonfunctioning alcoholic.


That must be why it two years to get back into his field.


Step Twelve: Forget Everything You've Just Read

DONE.



DataDog 03-30-2012 06:10 PM

I listened to an interview of this guy on NPR.

He said one of his reasons for writing the article was to come out publicly about his drinking. The article itself was an exercise in staying sober. Mainly for the reasons he claims in step 2. He was proclaiming his sobriety and asking everyone to call him on his ******** if they ever caught him drinking again.

stillsleeping 03-30-2012 09:29 PM

Hmmm. Could be that even though he would have spent weeks planning and then probably at least a couple of days writing and proofing the article, and then his editor would have read it carefully and discussed alterations and clarifications....

Yeah, I guess it's possible that after all of that his key and humble message of "please pull me up if you spot any ********" wasn't clearly conveyed.

But it sounds more to me like everyone pointed out he was being an arrogant *sshole and he responded with "no wait, wait, I didn't mean it like that, I meant the OPPOSITE of that..."

Whatever. I'm glad the dude's clean. I don't like him.

ReadyAndAble 03-30-2012 10:45 PM

Step 13: Write a story and let the Wall Street Journal excerpt it, in hopes people will pay $1.99 to download the full-length version (yes, there's more where that came from).

Sure you don't want to get to know him a bit better, stillsleeping? Because let's face it, that $1,000 pen isn't paying for itself...

vinyl 03-30-2012 10:47 PM

Tough crowd.

littlefish 03-30-2012 11:02 PM

I say good on him and it's great he is sober and like thousands of others did it alone and without AA.

but, I picture him shrugging and saying "I got nothing"...if I were to ask him to design a program for this alcoholic:
Not male, (a middle aged female), not dating, (in a +25 year marriage with kids), no public drinking, (lots of secret drinking), no friends at the pub to regal with stories of my escapades, (unless you consider tripping over the laundry basket drunk and dropping my hidden bottle of vodka exciting), no career, (got in the way of drinking), incredibly thrifty: (why spend 10 bucks on a glass of wine when I can buy a box???) and not the least bit interested in my small celebrity status. Oh, um, I have no small celebrity status!

ReadyAndAble 03-30-2012 11:06 PM

You may not be as well known, littlefish, but on this thread at least, you're a lot more well liked. :)


Tough crowd.
lol, don't worry vinyl, I have a feeling his ego can withstand the blow. ;)


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