stopping
 

After logging in yesterday, I read most of the threads on the board. Most of the messages are about staying away from alcohal after having stopped. That's great but how did some of you stop? I can't even get a glass of water to my mouth in the morning without worrying about smashing my teeth with the glass from the shaking. After that the restlessness sets in, and . . . The pattern starts again. Ther's no AA in this small city, and in Holland an alcohal problem is even more tabboe than in America. The doctor's advice is to drink less. Helpfull. Do any of you have any tips? I'd be gratefull for anything at all.
Wiebe

Welcome
 

I know it is dangerous to quit by yourself.
I have no idea how to find help for alcoholism in Holland...Sorry.

I am shooting in the dark here but...

Perhaps call a medical society and ask for an addiction specalist.
Ask your minister?

Please keep trying... regardless of any tabu... saving yourself from alcoholism must come 1st.

My very best...:)

hang in there
 

Hi there wiebe,
I am sorry things are so hard right now. There are a multitude of online resources that provide help and advice regarding alcohol abuse. The only person qualified to determine what works best for you, is you. The links page at this site is very comprehensive and can lead you in the right direction. What has been working for me is SMART recovery, which I found because someone here had referred to it. They have online meetings and some really good online resources.

All the best

OK...
 

I had this in my files...perhaps it will be of help to you. It is my personal story.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~``````De toxing alone is never a good idea...actually dangerous.
Before you quit...please see a doctor and be honest.

I did my withdrawal with a friend..not realizing the peril. Really ignorant of me!!

So...I will share what helped me. It took ne about 3 days
to finish the physical withdrawal.

Drink a lot of water... Honey + Orange Juice is also good.

Aspirin for aches.....Cut out caffeine...Eat a soft diet.

Rest is good, sleep is often impossible.

ER time....any bleeding...blood pressure swings...heart palpitations...convulsions...hallunations.


I experienced...Sweating Blurred Viision Stomach Cramps Shaking Nightmares Head and Joint Aches Vomiting Pains in my Liver and Heart

Welcome and I send you my prayers.

If you would like more information about AA in the Netherlands this link may be helpful.

www.aa-nederland.nl

They can probably provide you with even more helpful information.

Hugs
Ann

Hi wiebe.Welcome to SR.

It sounds to me like your alcoholism is in a very advanced stage and detoxing at this stage without professional input can be dangerous.

I suggest you visit a doctor more knowledgable in alcoholism and speak openly with them.

I stopped with the help of Alcoholics Anonymous.

AA provided a safe environment for me where I could get the necessary love, support , encouragement and information I needed to start recovering from my drinking problem.

The therapeutic value of one alcoholic helping another is without paralell.

I know how difficult these first days are for you and it is especially at these times that we need the companionship of others who are like us.

In the meantime check out the online resourses available to you and I encourage you to try and get in touch with your nearest AA meeting.

Keep coming back.

Thanks for the tips. I've been drinking tons of water and it seems to help. I'm not trying to stop cold turkey. I've stopped starting the day with beer and working on smaller amounts later in the day. It seems the only logical way to build up to being sober all the time. The doctors I've talked to look at drinking as something you choose to do to yourself. The addiction specialist said "you're not going to live long if you keep going like this" and that's it. A doctor's help would be helpfull but that's ruled out. What I do find really helpfull is that I discovered this site. It's comforting and inspirational to read about, and respond to people with the same problem and not be lectured to by some holier than thou expert. Cool.

Welcome weibe

Regular AA meeting attendance is not a prerequisite to getting or staying sober. Meetings are a wonderful place to see others that suffer the same condition as yourself and to take a few warm hugs home with you but the real work is in practicing the 12 steps and learning to accept life on life's terms without the alcohol or drug buffer.
You can get sober online, I did it, today I have 2+ years of continous soboriety and have worked through the steps. Keep coming back, keep posting your thoughts and hang on tight, you are in for the ride of a lifetime......

If you are as shaky as you say. You must not do this on your own. I have lost a family member trying to go it alone. Don't think about what other people think of you that will just slow you down. Think of the many lives you might save opening the door to recovery. Talk to your doctor about it. You may need medication to stop seisures. Please keep coming to the boards we need you. But above all get medical attention a.s.a.p. Please . I am praying for your recovery for this horrible addictionI am sorry to hear the docs are not much help. I hope you get through this....

Weibe, I am sorry about the situation you are in. I had never been through the withdrawals, so I have no idea what they are like. But I have heard a lot of people talk about it at meetings, that they detoxed themselves. And from what I understand it is a dangerous situation. I hope that link that Ann included, is of help.
My prayers and my thoughts are with you that you hang in there and get sober, without any further harm coming to you.

God Bless

Harry

Hi Weibe,

I welcome you also! As the others suggested detoxing alone is dangerous. Please seek medical help if it means going through numerous doctors.

Here is a good place to start there are a number of sites that offer online AA meetings and sponsers. It's good that you want to stop.

Your question was how. Well all are stories are diffrent and I didn't go through withdrawls either. But I did stay on this site until I was able and ready to go to AA. I found my Higher Power which is God for me and prayed for him to take away my pain and cravings of this disease. I talk to him daily and simply ask him to help me get through one day at a time, and thank him when I do.

I hope the site Ann sent you will help. You can also download the Big Book and start reading that, I find it gives me strength as well to know I have so many people that can relate to me and be there for me on these boards. We too will all be here for you!

Welcome and don't give up it can be done!

Hi, wiebe,
I am definitely NOT an expert on the medical aspects of quitting drinking. But I'm curious: how much are you drinking on a daily basis? Others have posted about the dangers of detoxing abruptly and without supervision, but I can't think of any reason you can't carefully drink LESS than you are presently doing.

If you are drinking medicinally, as many people do, you may be drinking pretty much the same amount of pure alcohol each day--though possibly in forms of differing strengths (beer, wine, spirits). So if you can measure what your daily "dose" is and cut that by 25% it'll certainly be better for your body than what you are presently doing.

Help me out here, folks; anyone know of any harm from steady reduction in alcohol intake--as opposed to cold turkey?

Identifying how much you find "necessary" each day might also be a good first step in determining what benefit you think it provides you. Then maybe we can talk about other ways to achieve that benefit while tapering down gradually.

When I made a commitment to quit drinking, I chose to cut my daily intake in half for two days first to reduct the discomfort associated with sudden abstinence. But without knowing your typical daily intake, or what the consequences would be, I can't tell you whether this is likely to work for you.

The only reason I suggest this, even with all the prior suggestions about medical supervision, is it doesn't seem that your doctors are being much help on this! It certainly is interesting how different cultures perceive alcohol use and abuse. Let us know how things are going, and thanks for posting.


Don S

Cutting down is exactly what I'm doing because I see it as the only way. Usualy I wake up in the morning and the first thought is beer. This morning I woke up thinking about a discussion in another thread. This site really helps divert attention away from the negative and towards the solution. As for the alcohal intake, that used to be about 8 liters of beer a day or more and I've got that down to about half of that plus a couple of galllons of water. The AA meetings within traveling distance may be an option soon. I haven't traveled much lately. In the trains and stations here you can buy and drink beer which isn't so helpfull for showing up sober at a meeting, but we'll see. Right now I'm reading tons of discussions on these sites and it helps. A long journey starts with a little step, right? Thanks for the responces.
Wiebe

Hi, Wiebe,
Once again, I have no medical background. But here are some rough figures.

By my calculations, you were drinking about 2 gallons of beer a day. In the US, beer is 4% alcohol, which would be about 10 - 11 oz. of ethanol. That's about the same alcohol that's in a 750 ml. bottle of whiskey, vodka, or brandy @ 80 proof. I certainly drank that amount of alcohol in one day on a regular basis, and I suspect many other folks here have done the same. Without knowing how much you weigh, I can't figure out how drunk that was getting you, but at the rate your liver processes alcohol it's about enough to keep you feeling the effects of alcohol throughout your waking hours.

Beer in some countries is as much as 6% alcohol, so you can adjust the math accordingly. Replacing one of those gallons with two gallons of water per day is definitely a good plan. Plus, you can consider that you've just cut about 1600 calories (20 - 30% less with light beer) out of your daily diet…it's pretty easy to see the benefits of that!

I'd anticipate some sleeplessness, irritability, and perhaps feeling hungry due to the sudden drop in carbohydrates. My eyes felt dry and itchy because there wasn't the alcohol evaporating out of them. I found that small, steady amounts of fruit juice helped even things out, and herbal teas helped make me feel sleepy at bedtime. Taking that much fluid containing diuretic out of your body is going to affect your digestion. With the amount of water you're drinking you might feel bloated at times. Some coffee or tea around meals helped me with that.

Have you had much physical discomfort from cutting your beer intake in half? Would you be able to cut it in half again within the next day or so? In particular, have you had any of the symptoms mentioned in the other posts, which might warrant a medical consultation? If not, I don't see why you couldn't taper off more with the goal of being completely free of alcohol in your system in, say, several days.

Some folks here may disagree with me on this, but I think that the stopping part of drinking can actually be the simplest part of the process. You just stop--either cold turkey, or incrementally. There are some discomforts, but they are not unbearable.

It's the staying stopped that can be complicated, primarily because of anxieties we may have about what it will be like to be sober. Inability to cope with stresses, problems breaking the daily patterns that reinforced the drinking, or just dealing with the boredom or restlessness that often comes with early sobriety: those are the things a recovery program can help you with.

Figuring out what benefit alcohol was providing you can be a helpful starting point. Anticipating urges, changing your daily routine, and finding a way to make your commitment to sobriety firm and unshakeable are the keys to success.

You really can do all this before you ever get to your first meeting. And starting out sober will just make the next steps that much easier.

Congratulations on cutting your drinking in half, Wiebe. I admire your perseverance in the face of the apparent indifference of the professionals who are supposed to be helping you! Thanks for posting.
Don S

Weibe,

Yes.. a little step will take you far. Glad you reducing your intake. Like I said I am no expert on the physical discomforts of just abstaining completly. But I think Don has some good advice about cutting back. Just so long as it doesnt' take forever to get enough out of your system to eventully quit. A little bit less each day just might work. Then you just quit! I worry about you giving into more though just remember your desired goal. I guess mixed emotions on this but you know what will work for you. We all achieve sobriety diffrently. However, you can do this thing and eventually reach complete sobriety.



Don: Interesting comments on what to expect, I wish I had this knowledge when I quit. The food cravings, dry eyes, digestion, went through all of that and didn't even realize why! I thought it was allergies and dieting. What you say makes sense for me.

Hi Don
You got pretty scientific on the subject and... exactly right. With enough beer the violent shakes didn't come. Because of all the experienced people saying stuff about medical help I'm considering it. Again. I'm also considering just quiting tonite. I keep thinking of something KINDABLUE said about his girlfriend not recognizing him when he was sober for two weeks. I'd love to give my girlfriend that. My daugther would also be happy. In the meantime, thanks CarolD, barteneder 129, Ann, Peter, D_L, Bubblze29, Harry H and Chy. This is the first time in years that I've been able to even discuss my problem in a rational way,
Thanks
Wiebe

Weibe,

As we say so long as your making progress. I don't think I'd have quiet had it not been for the love and support I got from this board I'll have 90 days next week for the first time in over 20 years. You can grasp your life back and keep flicking that demon off your shoulder. Keep us posted!

Wow! Congratulations on 90 days, Chy. That is really great. It's surprising how much support forum boards like this can provide.

Wiebe, you mentioned that your daughter would really like your sobriety.

My kids were (are) a huge motivating factor for me. Two young teenagers needed their dad to be sober. I made them a promise in writing, and recited it word for word until I could simply say it anytime I was tempted to buy a bottle:

"There will be no alcohol in my house or in my body."

Many times those bottles (of wine, in my case) looked very tempting. I could start to rationalize: "well, one bottle would be ok; I need it for a recipe; I can drink a glass and stop there...."
But that absolute rule kept the bottle on the shelf.

The only change I've made to that rule is to add the word "drinkable" in front of alcohol. So I do own Listerine and cooking sherry, and when I was given a bottle of good-quality red wine I just poured 3 tablespoons of salt into the bottle as soon as I opened it.

By the way, my (14 year old) son walked into the kitchen while I was doing that and said "what on earth are you doing?"
"I'm making this wine undrinkable."
He gave me a BIG hug. They care a lot more than they let on.

Since you've successfully cut your drinking in half and gotten your body used to about 5, instead of 10, oz. of ethanol--why not try a day without any beer? I'd go back and read Peter's post about possible side-effects first, and if you can talk to a doctor that would be great. As they say in AA, "one day at a time." One day without beer?

If you do quit tonight, I'd suggest making specific plans for:

--what to do with the time you usually spent drinking. It's a pretty passive activity, and most of us found ourselves pretty restless at first. I found myself stopping at a local bookstore or magazine store almost every day, looking for reading material, and the folks at Blockbuster got to know me on a first-name basis.

--the possibility of negative reactions from those around you. You might be a little antsy or snappish. Your drinking friends might be a little threatened by your change. Some might show relief when you decide to drink, that you're "back to normal." Those are big factors in how we deal with urges.

--how to quiet your rumbling stomach. This might be a good evening for a high-carbohydrate dinner. Make lasagna! It takes time, is fun to make at home, and fills you up. Plus, people will really be impressed.

--how to get to sleep. Herbal teas and a good, slightly boring book have helped me many nights. Or, just don't worry about the fact that you're up late. I have found I can function just fine on much less sleep than when I was drinking, probably because the quality of sober sleep is more restful.

Again, the next step might be to try and figure out what it is that alcohol was providing you with so that once you have stopped you can stay stopped. Right now, while you're reducing your intake, would be a good opportunity to observe and describe what you're missing. That can be helpful in building the tools to combat urges.

Writing those "benefits" down and posting them here can elicit suggestions from others about how they filled the void once alcohol was out of their system. Part of it is practical--tools and techniques--and part of it is philosophical--learning to NOT think of it as a void.

By the way, what % alcohol is beer in your country? Just curious.

Don S

Good advice Don... filling up my old "drinking time" was hard but now I don't seem to have enough hours in the day to get things done. It sickens me to think of all the time wasted looking into those bottles!

Keep busy Weibe, I'll be praying for you and walking on your side in spirit as you take this journey. Always here for you!

Hi Don and Chy
Yesterday afternoon the fridge ran out of beer and I didn't bother to go out and get more. Last night was the first night I went bed sober in 5 years. Lots of tossing and turning, waking up and wierd dreams. It felt good this morning though. Surpisingly little shaking. I appreciate the advice from many people about the risks of doing it this way, but the only course with a certain outcome would be to keep drinking. I don't need a medical degree to know that wouldn't last long anymore. A collegue just called about doing some work for him, but I thought to just take it easy today. in about 6 hrs. it will be 24 hrs. I want to hit at least that. And maybe keep going or just get a small amount for toniite. My son liked to have a few beer with me,but my daughter sees the health consequences and has offered to help any way she can. My girlfriend is happily making pots of herb tea and has offeredto go to the store by herself so I don't have to walk by the beer section if I decide to go for a second day, but I'll leave that decision until I've made it through the fist one. Dutch beer is 5% and the brown beer is around 8.5%. I've stopped liking the taste of even the better brands a long time ago though. The effect wore off long ago too. Nobody really notices if I drank a lot. I even managed to still be able to run a printing press in Amstedam in that kind of shape. The point is that what used to be a nice happy feeling from a few beer turned into sort of a dull haze from a ton of the stuff. You know, like going to the store twice in a day because I could't carry it all in one shot. No, I don't miss it, and that will provide the momentum to quit or keep moving towards quiting. So far so good. Ill keep this short because I have to go, but thre are many things I'd like to ask you both and the other people.
Wiebe

Hi Weibe

Good morning, because of the time difference you said you only had 6 hours to go. So here I am hoping you made it! If not try again. I too got were I nearly didn't like the taste, I seemed to at times be forcing myself to take that first drink. Which resulted in many beers later. I also understand about walking by the beer case. I had headed straight for it everytime I walked in the store, I had to break that habit as well, I was shocked at myself one day when I was finally able to go into that store to get some Diet Coke and found myself standing with hand on the door to open that case. Talk about bad habits! I was mortified when I realized what I was doing. But I grabbed my Coke and bolted right out of there. (After paying of course) I don't go there very often for anything anymore.

Keep up the momemntum, the first few days were the hardest for me, but I'm doing it and so can you.

Have a good day!

Hi Chy
No the full 24 didn't happen, some people came by and . . . But I did make it for 20 hours including a night with no alchohal, the first in 5 years. You suffered with this stuff for 20 years and you just hit 90 days. I hope to achieve what you've got.
Hi Bubblze29
Yes I do hold on for hours and then delay for minutes and I won't give in to the disease, or at least I won't stop fighting it.
Wiebe

Hi, Wiebe,
I distinctly remember my first night in over 20 years without alcohol. The restlessness seemed pretty overwhelming, and I kept looking at the clock and realizing how little sleep I was getting. That is a particular symptom of "detoxing" that can really be an obstacle for many people: "I can't sleep without a drink."

There are a couple of simple ways to dispute that. One is to do things that will help you relax--warm bath, book, hot milk, massage, candles, soft music...uh oh, I'm getting carried away here.

Another is to realize that you may be fixating on, and becoming anxious about, your sleeplessness. So stay awake! All night, if that happens. Big deal. Heck, you used to do it in college, right? And you can nap when your body tells you to. Besides, sober sunrises are beautiful. You may be a little less on top of your job tomorrow, but probably not as impaired as if you were drunk. Besides, taking a "sick day" to achieve sobriety isn't unreasonable. After all, you are dealing with a medical condition.

This is part of a broader anxiety about quitting drinking. People are often scared of what life will be like without it. The threads on this forum board reflect fears of boredom, coping with stress, dealing with how other people will react (just wait until we get close to the holidays!), etc. It WILL be uncomfortable, but all of those things are bearable. Dealing with them as separate issues, and ruling out alcohol as the solution to any of them, is an important step.

How much beer did you drink when you finally did? The reason this is important is that you may have found what your body and mind consider to be your dosage. Anything after that is probably maintenance, although for many people the first drink simply starts another long ingestion that doesn't stop until they're asleep in one form or another.

Taking a close look at when you drank and why may be useful to you in identifying what triggers you to start drinking. If you can stop the starting part, you can stop for good. That means recognizing urges and triggers and disputing them until they pass.

Congratulations on your first day, wiebe. Keep in mind that after about 72 hours without alcohol most of the physiological changes of early sobriety have passed and you are mostly dealing with psychological things. So a 72 hour goal can be an important first step.

Don S

Well Weibe, you made a start and that's a good thing! Your first night without, and a whole 20 hours is a big step and a great start! You can do this one hour at a time. Get away from watching the clock, fill your day with so much stuff to do you have to keep busy. Make committments for situations that will keep you away from the temptation. Also consider an AA meeting. Now is a good time to start. I noticed the site Ann had appeared to give you some good info. Even though I couldn't read the language, I could tell it was offering you a choice. Make no more excuses for drinking, friends or not, having a beer with son, nope! Like Don said the sleeplessness will get better it took a few weeks for me to sleep versus being passed out. A natural supplement melatonin helped me with it the first few weeks. Think about some of the things Don mentioned and answer them honestly. We are here rooting you on, it may take a few false starts but it will happen if you want it enough. Try reading some of KINDABLUES posts. Boy did he struggle and now he's doing great and has a little over two weeks! Message him, you two can help each other.

Wishing you well today!

In the meantime, try a full 24 hours and just keep being honest, and try, try, try! *hugs*

Hi Wiebe,
I have been reading over your posts and I see honesty, openness, and willingness..that's HOW it works ya know! You can do this, it just takes some rough starts like Chy said, keep picking yourself back up and you will make it through..one day at a time. My prayers are with you.:)

Hi Don
Sometimes it's one step forward and two steps back. I went out to fix a system and since the guy knew my habits he had a fridge full beer to make sure I stayed until the job was done. Urg! Still on track though, I won't be defeated by a few cans of beer. It took about 6 years to build this rotton situation, I don't mind (and actualy have to) take a few months to get rid of it. In my mind bringing it down to a dull roar (which I have done) is the first phase. The sleep problem isn't a small thing though since I used to be awake for days at a time sometimes before I started drinking, and sleeping pills don't work at all. A sleepless night or two doesn't scare me but having had a collapsed lung a few times, I do have to watch the fatigue level. I was pleasantly surprised to get any sleep at all that first night without the stuff, and will try it again soon. It feels nice in the morning.
Chy, after this message I'm going to look up a few of kindablue's posts. The link Ann sent I had been to already (but there's nothing in my city and when I called the nearest one, it was in a hard to find location in a hard to get to town), and the American home page had a bunch of links that didn't work. That's why I was so happy to find this site. It's great to be able to communicate with people who know how it is to live with this.
2stop, Thanks, and I got my girlfriend laughing when I read her your second quote.
Wiebe

Here's wishing you have a good day. Glad your making P R O G R E S S!!

You just keep coming back here if this is what is working then!

Hi, wiebe,
You've identified a specific and very common drinking situation, or "trigger" if you want to call it that. Planning for how you're going to deal with friends who assume you're going to drink is very important.
Recognizing the diference between a dull roar and having your head in the lion's mouth can be helpful, as long as you are tapering off. What benefits do you see from your reduced drinking? How about any drawbacks that it might be helpful to talk about?
In my case, sleeplessness diminished over just a couple of weeks. I also became less concerned about it. I now sleep 2 - 4 hours less than I did before. Mornings are MUCH nicer.
Don S

Hi Weibe!

Just checking in to see how you are doing! Hope your okay and the days are getting better for you. Let us know how your doing!