Powerless over alchohol......I think a lot of people just shut off and quit reading as soon as they see the word.

That has nothing to do with AA. It's a common trait shared by most alcoholics. Most of us have felt we just don't fit in anywhere.

That probably has to do more with the age of the women and the progression of the disease more than anything else.

I am a woman, wife, mother, and an alcoholic. I attend lots and lots and lots of AA meetings. Open, closed, women's only, big book, step study, etc. And quite frankly, I take the least away from the womens meetings. That's just me. I find them to be more ethereal and more religious.

I take what I can from all of the meetings that I attend, and leave the rest.

TinLIzzy

I will not try to convince or cajole
anyone to use any recovery method.

If you want AA..
I c am be available to share my experience.

As I was AA sober years before other recovery
methods were founded...
I can not help anyone with those.

Blessings

I have only been on one womens only meeting, and it certainly was not for me. I hear there are some fantastic ones, just not during the time I can go sans-kids.

Hi again and thanks everyone for the replies:

to parentrecovers - I am finding this exact problem here, there are no sobriety support groups here other than one a week at the community alcohol and drugs facility or AA, for women or men!

to Tazman53 - I think you're aware that I'm not trying to trash AA, I'm trying to find out what will work best for me. I've voiced my reservations about it but am very open to people's thoughts in response, I'm trying to be open minded :0)

I can see now how a range of support options which deal with the issues the other maybe can't would work well - your reply helped clarify that, thank you :0)

Ok, this is a major for me and I need to know how to deal with it. I'm glad you've responded and I appreciate your feedback. The AA and the powerless thing screws up my mind, lol. If you care to elaborate more on this I would like to hear it. Maybe I'll start a thread elsewhere on the subject but it fits with this thread so here is good for now.

The powerlessness if applied to alcohol only would make sense. I don't want to start to feel powerless in general. I know I'm not, I've beaten drug addiction with support and help and now it's time to move on to alcohol. When I look back at how much alcohol has disempowered me I see a new approach, maybe that is what I need to think about at the moment. A twist of words maybe, I don't know.

That is the support of the kind I am seeking, it seems after further research there is nothing in my area apart from AA that offers that kind of support. I've been on the phone this morning and most support options are for a limited amount of time and/or are a fair way away. Those won't work for me. I'm going to have to be open minded and try out AA. I do realise that. It seems I might go kicking and screaming but what options do I have left? One evening of support at the CADS center isn't going to be enough, even when combined with a weekly counselling session with my regular counsellor.

to GrouchoTheCat - thank you for all your comments and thoughts in this thread, it's been very interesting so far.

to BrandiK - The role of caretaker is so often cast on women isn't it - that's definately an issue for me too. I have a 9 year old but I don't like being cast into the role of caretaker at someone else's direction! Thank you for your comments, I'm glad the thread has been useful to you :0)

to GlassPrisoner - your posts in the threads here are making me think - thank you for all your feedback. It's interesting to see your responses as they come from an AA base.

to TinLIzzy - thank you for your post - it's great to hear a range of experiences, especially from a woman's perspective.

CarolD - you are the glue that holds this place together it seems :0) Good on you. I appreciate that once a person has found something that works for them they want to share it with others.

needtobefree for me admitting I was powerless over alcohol was crucial, it is something I remind myself of on a daily basis. This does not mean we have no power over alcohol, I do as long as I do not take that first drink, once I have taken that first drink I have lost any power I may have had over alcohol. To put it another way:

I am powerless over alcohol once I have put it into my body!

There are some other things I am powerless over as well, I am powerless over other people, I can not control other people, but I can control how I react to them and how they influence me.

I am powerless over the weather, but I do have the power to come inside out of the rain, cold, or heat.

What I need to do is be able to recognize what I have no power over and accept that, yet at the same time be aware that I do have the power to control how I react to those things that I have no power over and if there are actions I can take to take them.

If some one is hurting me, I have no control over their feelings toward me, but I do have the power to do what is needed to seperate myself from them.

Am I powerless? No, absolutely not! I put faith in my Higher Power to help me be able to recognize those thing that I have no power over and accept them, I also put faith in my Higher Power to help me be able to recognize those thing that I do have power over and thet my Higher Power will help me take the actions or inactions needed for me to control those things I do have power over, my Higher Power also helps me to see the difference between those things I have no power over and those things I do.

I have the power to not pick up that first drink, I lose all that power once I have taken that first drink...... as a result I am powerless over alcohol!

needtobefree a couple of things to keep in mind about AA, take what you need at the time and leave the rest. There are no rules in AA, when you go to a meeting there is not a single thing you need to do or not do as long as you are not disturbing others.

I will also tell you this, I hear things in meetings some things that I know are total BS!!! I do one of 2 things when I hear this, I simply leave it at the meeting, or I pay attention to where I will know how not to be!

One thing I will tell you, I love every person in AA and if they call me at 3 am and they need me for any reason I will be there for them because I know that they will be there for me. Just because I love them does not mean I like them though, but I am part of the solution as every other member of AA is, as a result when any one, any where reachs out for help, I am one of the many hands of AA that will be there to help.

In the rooms of AA I found people that loved me until I learned to love myself, this saved my life.

This is an interesting thread. Is it different for women, im not so sure. I think its mainly about how one individual copes with their deal (life) experiences and somehow it evolves into being powerless over their deal. Does that make any sense.

She grew up as the youngest child. She has protected, owned, couldnt think for her self, babied, answered for. Her dad was ill from day one and she spent most of her time with him. Mum was working the whole time. Her eldest sister was possibly vacant and distant, protected her but was much older. her brother was rebelling and distance and not connected at all to the family. One day her father left the home and went to a centre for the incurable. She then lived on her own with her mother until she was 17. She married at 18 and eventually soon had 2 children. Dad now was never around and she never saw him unless she visited him. The man she married was from a different culture. Work, work, work and lots of money but no real marriage cos they never saw each other. Mum was there all the time telling her what to do and how to do it. Controlling I guess. Then after 20 years, she wondered who she really was and after a few years of social drinking late at night and alot on her own while she waited for hubby to come home she some how became an alcoholic.
Divorce now and suddenly she was living on her own with her 2 children. No income because hubby didnt provide anymore. It seemed so horrible for her so she started using credit cards and drinking more. Her drinking became so bad that she only existed and her 2 children finally left her. Now she is all alone is this big bad world she thinks exists and she is scared. Scared to live her life because all her life she has had someone living it for her.
Do you know what I mean?
She wasnt abused or beaten, she was lost...
I think women and men have similar stories.

hi,different for women?Ive never really seen any difference.I read in the BB--we men and women,and that was enough for me.Both can recover,and both can die from this disease.When applying the 12 steps the promises come true for both.
I know what you mean about self-esteem,because i had none when i came into the rooms.When a sponsor of mine kept talking about the ego,ego,ego,i couldnt relate.,and knew there was more to it,than ego.Ive heard others talk about their sponcees,as they would talk about others,when they were in the bars.Seems to be the same,pointing at others,with name calling..I let her go,and got with another who guided me through the 12 steps.Everytime i had an issue,this new gal gave me a chapter to read, relflect on,and we would discuss it later.Her sharing her experience,strenght,and hope,on how she was using the 12 steps in her own life.Look for the similarities,not the differences.If another says im full of ego,who cares.I take the time to find out if its true,or not.No one can take my self-esteem away from me,without my very own permission.Take what applies,leave the rest.

Slight derail here.

Grasshopper, remember Self esteem is what you think of yourself, Ego is how often you think of yourself. I have a huge ego, but very low self esteem. I've heard alikes reffered to in the rooms as "Egotists with Inferiority Complexes".....;)

So true it hurts!!!!!

Hi again and thanks for the posts here.

Tazman53

Now that makes more sense. I can stay sober until I take the first drink. I have to accept that one drink isn't just one drink. It ends up being the whole bottle. Most of the time, sometimes I've left it at two and walked away.

I need to give your feedback some more thought but thank you again for posting, I do appreciate it.

justjo - thanks for your reply, I think there are similarities but there are also huge differences, your story is very similar to most of the stories in the book I quoted from in the beginning of this thread. You might find it interesting maybe :0)

Grasshopper - thanks for your reply, it depends if you had any self esteem in the first place as to whether people can take it away don't you think? People that have been in therapy and under the care of psychiatrists because they were traumatised and neglected in their childhood and maybe perpetuated that cycle in their relationships as adults and have been able slowly over the years to build a shakey self esteem need help in building and keeping it. There's a difference between ego and self esteem I can see that but the sense of self is so intricately woven between the two.

Some people think everything is their fault, that another person's responses are because of them and who they are, that's not egotistical, it's more complicated than that. People have to work hard to get away from that mindset, the always blaming the self. Yeah it's a revelation when you realise that it's not all about you, but it doesn't mean you have to be 'up yourself' to blame yourself for everyone else's responses to you. I know that cause it's my life story. Childhood has such a deep affect on who we are and until we start looking at why we are like that, and at the pains of our childhood we can go on blaming ourselves for everything. It's been an interesting journey. :0)

wow, all of you are very intelligent people.
thank you for thinking & communicating.
-
one change i made in my thinking is to focus on my behavior,
and not on my feelings. I'm trying not to care about how i feel about things
anymore, about what thinking or intention 'caused' a specific outcome.
I find this just leads in circles.

As i read more and more books, i realize the roles we play in situations is not as
important as our egotistical thinking wants us to believe.
So, I've moved to a Stoical form of thinking, best articulated by Marcus Aurelius.
Actions, not feelings.

I could discuss a lot of supporting ideas on this. But, the conclusion to it all is,
actions are all we can control.
Thoughts flit through our minds without an ability for us to control them.
One or another thought my fly through, and our ego notices it, and we then
start building off it.

And I have learned this year that the one action that makes me lose control over myself is to take that 1st drink. After that 1st one, i begin to lose the ability to say 'Yes' and 'No' to both my drinking and how i conduct myself.
By the 5th one, i definately have lost control of myself, and now i'm possessed
by the spirits i drank.


I think any recovery process strives to achieve this one action: don't start drinking.
Of course, that statement is easy to say, and it's hard to achieve.
But at least we can find the common thread across the different methods.

I forget who said this,
It is easy to stop drinking. The hard part is not starting again.

Something about the way that is written irks me a little. I don't know if I'm just misunderstanding it or what. But to me it looks like it's saying that the reason most women are alcoholics is because of sexual/physical abuse. I'm not quite sure why that gets to me so much.

I put stars around it because I couldn't get the bold html code to work.

Looks like I'm a couple days late on a response, sorry about that :)

Hi AcceptingChange, nice to meet you as it were.

You're post made me think of something that was on Dr Phil's show yesterday here in this country. He said you can behave your way into anything, or something similar. I wrote it down, I'll see if I can find it. Thanks for your post, it's great to hear of new approaches. Behavior is one thing I need to work on in order to stay sober :0)

Hi RedFox, nice to meet you too. I think it's a bit hard when there are just excerpts from a book. She is saying that that is one reason women could become alchohol dependent, she talks about many other reasons too.

Here's a list of chapters, that might help give a broader picture.

Part one - the impact of alcohol

1) Why men can outdrink women
2) Women and Drinking: A Long Story In Brief

Part two - On the Job and in Families

3) Marriage and partnerships
4) Mothers: A message from the owl
5) Teenage Girls and College Women
6) On the Job

Part Three - Take Two At Bedtime: Drinking as Self-Medication

7) Love Hunger
8) Springs of Sorrow: Drinking at Times of Loss
9) Stealing Courage from a Turtle's Heart: Sexually Abused Women Fighting Alcohol

Part Four: Womens Paths In Recovery

10) Doctors still don't get it
11) Working with Difference: Minnesota Indian Women's Resource Center and African-American Family Services
12) Recovery only Connect

As I read more I'll type it up - good job I can touch type, lol :0)

quote from Acceptingchange: It is easy to stop drinking. The hard part is not starting again.

This is a very, very scary thought because I dont want to deal with this for the rest of my life, even when I know she has too!
How selfish is that.

OOook. That sounds much better. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'll have to look up that book on amazon. I finished beyond the influence so I need something new to read.

I need to catch up on the rest of this thread.

on the topic of why women drink.

All of the ideas given above, such as having unique shame issues and such,
may truly be unique to women. But, none of us want to latch on to that as justifications for drinking.
For men can come up with their list of 'reasons', such as
(a) a strict hierarchical system of power and respect from other males
(b) an uncritical acceptance by many women of the male hierachy of power that is created by the dominant males

and other ideas such as these. I just made those up. I could make up 15 more, and write a book. And then defend my ideas as 'true', creating controversy. And then get more and more people talking about it, which creates media buzz, which then helps sell my book.

But, truthfully, these 'reasons' are not provable. The ideas sound good, but they are not provable. So we shouldn't trust them with important choices, like choosing to drink, or, more importantly, defining ourselves.

In ancient Greece, Aristotle proposed that "a object that is twice as heavy as another object falls twice as fast." Sounds logical, right?
Well, it's not true. All objects fall at the same speed.
Yet this "truth of falling objects" was believed for 1000+ years, until Galileo tested it, and found it to be false.

We can learn from this historical mistake.
We have to be very careful in finding 'truths' in these concepts
proposed within the psychological, self-help movements.
They sound good, and they can bring emotional comfort.
And they may help us to move out of more difficult issues (like me drinking too much).
I read these books too, and it helps me label and identify concepts that I'm grappling with.

But I try not to mentally rely on them too much, and I try not to
build too large a mental structure on those ideas.
Because that sand will move under my feet. And i'll feel lost again, mentally.
And who knows, that lost feeling may be the justification, the reason, i need
to start harming myself again.

JustJo, That's why I only worry about today. We can do something for 24 hours that would appall us if we had to do it for a lifetime.

I heard it put this way once: "just shoot for midnight".

Somewhere along the line, at some meeting I went to I found a little card that had the following. I still carry it in my wallet even though it is very worn and falling apart.



Just for today:
I will try to live through this day only,
and not tackle my whole life problem at once.
I can do something for twelve hours
that would appall me
if I felt that I had to keep it up for a lifetime.

Just for today:
I will be happy.
This assumes to be true what Abraham Lincoln said,
that "Most folks are as happy
as they make up their minds to be."

Just for today:
I will adjust myself to what is,
and not try to adjust everything to my own desires.
I will take my "luck" as it comes,
and fit myself to it.

Just for today:
I will try to strengthen my mind.
I will study. I will learn something useful.
I will not be a mental loafer.
I will read something that requires effort,
thought, and concentration.

Just for today:
I will exercise my soul in three ways:
I will do somebody a good turn, and not get found out;
if anybody knows of it, it will not count.
I will do at least two things I don't want to do,
just for exercise.
I will not show anyone that my feelings are hurt;
they may be hurt, but today I will not show it.

Just for today:
I will be agreeable. I will look as well as I can,
dress becomingly, talk low, act courteously,
criticize not one bit, not find fault with anything,
and not try to improve or regulate anybody
except myself.

Just for today:
I will have a program.
I may not follow it exactly, but I will have it.
I will save myself from two pests: hurry and indecision.

Just for today:
I will have a quiet half hour all by myself and relax.
During this half hour, some time,
I will try to get a better perspective of my life.

Just for today:
I will be unafraid.
Especially I will not be afraid
to enjoy what is beautiful,
and to believe that I give to the world,
so the world will give to me.

Author Unknown

Thanks Ted.

I really like that. It makes a lot of sense.
and as we get through each day, focused on the here and now,
keeping our bodies healthy, it will change us.
Just as drinking every day changed us.

And as we change, the thoughts that scare us today
may not scare us in the future. For example, it does not cause
me the least bit of anxiety to know that i will never
shoot heroin in the future. Or i will never break into someone's
house and steal their things.
These ideas may cause others fear.
But not me.

So, i'm hopeful that by getting through each day now, the
fear of 'never ever again' will subside into a 'well, i don't want
to do that anymore. actually, i never think about it too much.'
And ideas that i'm worried about now will not be ideas i'm worried
about in the future.

i will change over time, and my needs will change.
and by not listenting to that insistent, chemically created voice
inside me now, the act of ignoring it will make it's voice less insistent,
until it becomes quiet and still.

Hi again, thanks for all the posts.

Accepting change said

I agree, these things are not justifications for drinking. The author isn't making it so, she's discussing why things *are* different for women, which they are for many reasons, not validating women drinking more.

The author had a 38 year career as a physician in addiction medicine and the women she has written about in the book were all her patients. That's pretty impressive and worth consideration don't you think?