Some may view it as weak but for those of us who have found the sober way of life, I am sure that many of us will say it took courage and gutts to admit where we need help and then the strength to do something about it.

GettingSober I never said you critisized AA, but you speak as though you have experience with AA along with some others who feel that AA is a cult, or that in order to be a good AA member you have to believe in a God even though on this very thread we have an athiest, Paul, who is a member and sober to boot.

Paul speaks of AA experience with qualification, he is in AA and sober, he respects my beleifs and I respect his, he knows for a fact that there is recovery in AA without a belief in a God.

I am not of the belief that any member of AA feels they have the monopoly on God...or his ear when non-alcoholics do not. (Perhaps I misinterpreted what GettinSober was trying to say). I felt a connection to God even when I was a raging drunk! What I will say is that my "spiritual awakening" changed my relationship with God. I had a very arrogant and obstinant relationship with God...I think somehow I thought I knew best and that he existed to do my bidding or something. I was either asking him to execute MY plans or raging at him for my perceived punishments. I have been tremendously humbled since I "surrendered". I don't mean to generalize but it would appear that many alcoholics have tremendous control issues. Although we are quite evidently out of control when active, we drive ourselves insane believing we are actually in control and will go about willy nilly trying to impose our will in almost every facet of our lives. My connection with God was very much about releasing my need for control...recognizing that I was out of control and doing a pretty lousy job by trying to run the show. My relationship simply became respectful and humbled....it was simply about the letting go. Now my conversations with God are much more about gratitude for the blessings I have than begging, moaning and whining.

All in all, my relationship with God is very personal...and oddly enough, I get a really strange feeling when other people are talking about God or when I talk out loud about it. I don't quite understand it. Somehow I feel like I'm diluting or disrespecting or I dunno. Relationships as a whole are personal, and I guess I somehow believe that yapping out loud about them is some sort of emotional infidelity or something. Yes, I realize that is incredibly wierd and non sensical...but it's in me.

Levi that was a great share, I went to church for the first time in many years this past Sunday, I could have sworn that the pastor knew I was coming, the sermon was on breaking bad habits, it sounded like he had written his sermon from the 12 steps of AA.

Just responding to the original thread :)

I had my first spiritual awakening in the program at 15. Sounds crazy huh? I didnt even want to be there, forced through out patient rehab. But that moment has stuck with me forever. I did not even know it was attached to an existing religion until a few years later ... but I am still practicing my faith today.

This time round, I had what I refer to as my 'renewal', the thing that made this time 'stick' so far. I prayed and prayed for help in recovery, because I (personally) was not making it on my own. I dreamed of my HP, and it was pretty profound.

As to the other posts in the thread, personally, I dont care what you believe or if you believe anything at all. As long as it works for you, it's all good. I dont go about touting my God, converting anyone. Works for me, but heck, many think my beliefs are way out there anyway. Who am I to judge! Ha!

But I did want to respond just briefly on the one that said it was egotistical for humans to think god would be involved in personal lives. Again, beliefs differ. Personally, I believe 'god' (let's just stick to the generic term...not referancing any god in particular) to be too big to fit into any one ideal. And is big enough to encompass everything, and exist in everything. That includes us. We are, after all, all star matter. Why can we not be god too? Just a random thought. No arguing, no disputing...just popped into my head and thought I'd blub it out :D

I loved reading everyone's stories, thank you for sharing.

Wow Nuudawn, you said a mouthful, you certainly described this alcohlic and his prior relationship with God, when I was drinking it was all about me and my way, life was a B! Now that he is running the show life is so much easier, no longer do I blame God or others for my problems, I only seem to have problems when I still on occasion try and take back control.

That's kinda where they came from... sounds like they went full circle. :)

It is based in christanity, that is true. Not ruled by it, but based on it's princibles.

I went to a meeting where the chair mixed the bible with the big book, did a whole lecture on how the two books were connected. Really was a turn off. A lot of the old timers though brought the meeting back to focus, but yeah ... that was a bit much. Spiritual and religious, in my mind, are two different things. Not every one practices the same faith, if any. I try very hard to leave HP as generic to include as many as possible.

They're too similar for me. I need a support group with a secular environment. Sometimes I wish I still lived in the Bay. There's lots to choose from there!

I saw you posted that before, never been to one. But I love my AA, so I guess I never really looked either. You have something out there, right?

Now that WAS a brilliant post.

PS - Although you did misunderstand the part of my post where you think I said that alcoholics have a monopoly on God. But that aside......

Nope, just the 12-Step variety 'round these parts, and not much variation on those.

I don't consider myself a religious person (never have), and I'm glad that Al-Anon has never, in twelve years of steady attendance, presented itself to me as a religious program.

I did have a problem with hearing the word "God" in meetings early on, prob'ly 'cos while growing up in a home sick with alcoholic dysfunction, "God" was usually followed by "dammit" or worse. After awhile, as I grew, the word ceased to frighten or offend me.

As for religion vs. spirituality, I've heard that religion is for people who don't want to go to hell, while spirituality is for those of us who've already been there...

On the subject of spiritual awakenings, I don't see them as mystical happenings or anything of the sort. No lights coming down from the skies, no angels singing...

My "spiritual awakening" was simply that, through that process of having worked the Steps, my spirit (ability/willingness to participate in/enjoy my own life)--long battered and nearly comatose from alcoholism--reawakened.

That's all.

Love that!

When I first got sober and had a few months in N.A. and A.A., I was hoping for a spiritual awaking along the lines of Jake (as portrayed by John Belushi) in the Blues Brothers movie. I wanted the beam of light from heaven illuminating me, the gospel choir singing, and James Brown shouting "Have you seen the light?"

Oddly enough, it didn't happen that way :)


What I got instead was a gradual opening up of my spiritual nature as the result of seeking it out with a willingness to at least drop my defenses a little bit. I actually read books with the word God in the title instead of dismissing them out of hand. I went on a men's recovery retreat despite thinking that it was so not for me, and then went back the next year partially because it was for me and partially because my sponsor nominated me to serve on the planning committee for three years. I even found myself attending a Catholic mass with a friend and her three daughters and got something out of it. I spent a great deal of time listening to other people talk about what spirituality meant to them, sometimes picking up the information from how they talked about it rather than the words they used. And because I've been a member of N.A. and A.A., I spent time working (thinking, talking, doing) the twelve steps and trying to help other people get clean.

I don't know if I can really pick one moment in time when the light went on, although I do remember one A.A. meeting around seven months in when I realized how very real the experience of recovery is and felt the need to remark on it with some passion. I've learned to trust other people and to trust my own feelings, but I know that didn't happen overnight. I do know that something has happened to me during the past four years because I just feel different inside, I don't feel so much like I'm watching the world from the outside looking in. I also know that the quickest way to shut down this new thing is to pick up a drink and I'm kinda liking this new thing.

Thanks Findingout.

One of my favorite quotes, it is something that many people never seem to figure out, there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality.

I despise organized religion, all the crazy rules made up by MAN, to me my spirituality is a one on one relationship with my creator, my creator does not need any smoke and mirrors to please him (Not sexist LOL).

I have to say though that I enjoy a good spiritual sermon when it is given without begging for money or telling people that if you do or don't do this you are going to hell!

Okay Martin will shut up now, religion and politics are subjects that can bring up an argument no matter where you are! LOL