jenjram

I experienced my spiritual awakening in AA so early on, or half way in my step work. My life has changed in amazing ways, and I now know there is a God and I have such a deep faith.

I know they say in AA that everyone has a spiritual awakening, but is everyone's similar in intensity? The person I am is rapidly changing to be giving and loving person. I actually want to be good in God's eyes. This is a far cry from a year ago when I was selfish, proud and couldn't take much "God talk". I barely had a conscience.

I recently was talking to a friend who implied that some people just follow what is suggested and the only result is not drinking....which in and of itself is good. But what has happened in my life is so incredible, I cannot even explain it to my husband.

What do you think? Do some people really seem to connect with God and others no? Do spiritual experiences vary? What was yours like?

GlassPrisoner

Mine seems to be of the educational variety.

However, I do see minor miracles every now and then. I am blessed with serenity (among other things) and my conscious contact with God is improving.

Slowbriety

i was rocketed into that 4th dimension. Was on a high for a week after it happened. mine happened over a period of a week, then all the sudden BAM!

GettinSober

I will be roundly shouted down but here is what I think as an agnostic. I think alcoholics want to latch on to something else to replace the booze and in AA that (from what I have read) often becomes God. I find it unlikely that alcoholics have earned the right to 'find God' more than 'normal people'. I find it unlikely that God seeks out alcoholics in recovery more than He would seek out 'normal people'. Many people could do with Gods love. Many people are desperate. Alcoholics are selfish by their nature and like to think they're special or enlightened (hence they drink to block out the pain that most people just can't fathom - and all that bullsh*t).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I hope there is a God with all my heart - who wouldn't? But I doubt 'we' have any special right to see Him as alcoholics. And the number of people in AA who say they found God there (as a percentage in comparison to the rest of the population) just seems a bit too coincidental to me.

PS - I'm not flaming your belief. You asked peoples opinion and I gave mine honestly. I'm sorry if anyone is offended by my candour.

best

I happened to have been dry for many years (over ten) when I found the Lord's calling in my life. All are called, many need to find a place of getting humble before they hear His still soft voice. Jesus seeks out "all" who are lost. A good shepard that has 100 sheep and one becomes lost...he will seek out the one to save it and bring it back. Alcoholics are no more special then any other person. God is not a respector of people. You can be the homeless guy on the street or Mother Teresa...God accepts both the same when they seek Him. That is a very broad stroke of a brush. You would do better to speak of your own shortcomings and not say that all alcoholics are the same...because we are not. My drinking had nothing to do with blocking out pain and my finding God had nothing to do with AA or AA meetings.

Tazman53

Spiritual awakening...... I became a totally different person very rapidly, there was no flash of light nor bolt of lightning, but I noticed a huge change in myself very soon after getting sober (my family did also)...... one thing I feel that made it far quicker and easier for me is in my early, early 20's I found God, when I was baptised I did experience an over whelming sensation that to this day I can not describe.... did I mention that I had quit drinking for about 6 months before this happened?

As the years went by I drifted away from God and the church I was saved in, I started drinking again, the more I drank the further I drifted from God.... I did not forget God..... I simply chose to ignore him. It was not until I sobered up again via de-tox and getting into AA that I once again brought God back into my life.

I have gone from a self centered, short tempered, cold hearted SOB that could not stand the a-hole he saw in the mirror every morning, to a man I like when I see him in the mirror, I am forgiving, patient, things do not upset me like they used to, I face problems rather then run from them, I am happy!

GettinSober I will not shout you down at all, when I was in my teens I really went through a period of dis-beleif, it was for me a lonely feeling, I was full of pride and the idea of me needing God repulsed me, hell I didn't need anyone, I was the MAN!!! I was in charge!

In AA I know a few folks that were sober but miserable, in some cases for years according to them, they have shared that it was not until they had found a HP that they were released from thier misery and from thier mental obsession with alcohol.

I can honestly say that the urge/need to drink has been lifted from me by my HP, I could care less if I ever have another drink. Do I think about it? Yes I still do, but not in the manner I used to, I no longer think about how nice it would be to have a drink, mainly I think about how it screwed up my life for years, I on occasion do tie drinking to doing certain things, not that I would not be able to do them because I would get the urge to drink, but simply as a memory that I used to always drink when I went to a certain place or did a certain thing.

An inability to accept a HP has led to more then one alcoholic drinking their selfs into death or insanity, mainly simply due to ego. I know I had an ego as big as a mountian when I was drinking, I tried for ten years to assert my self will to stop drinking and failed miserably, it was not until I finally surrendered to alcohols control and stared my eventual death in the face due to my ego that I was willing to accept the fact that if I did not find a Higher Power then myself to give me the power to overcome alcohol I was going to die that I swallowed my pride and asked God my Higher Power to give me the power to stop drinking that I was able to finally stop drinking.

Pride is most alcoholics biggest enemy when it comes to getting sober and staying sober! Until these alcoholics are willing to accept the fact that they need a Higher Power, be it a God of thier understanding, or a group of alcoholics who have overcome thier drinking problem as a Higher Power they will continue to stop and start drinking over and over again due to thier own egos stopping them from seeking help from a Higher Power of their understanding.

Ann

I rarely post here, but felt compelled to add my thoughts today.

I am the mother of an addict, a codependent in recovery for my own obsessions of fear, worry and a need to control or "save" my son.

Although I grew up with "religion" I had not practiced anything in quite some time, just tried to live life as a good person.

Recovery and my program have taken me to many spiritual experiences, the first was when, at one of my darkest moments, I just said a prayer and asked God to remove the fear that had become my personal prison. Immediately upon finishing the prayer, I felt my fear lifted and I have never felt that kind of fear again.

I haven't seen or heard from my son in over two years, I have no idea where he is but I know, sadly, "how" he is and I pray every day for God to look after him. And every day, as I finish that prayer, I "know" that my son is in God's hands and my fear has changed to faith. Every day, that knowledge is another spiritual experience for me. Every day I can live a happy, healthy life and am no longer living in that darkness called fear.

My spiritual connection, today, is not a replacement of any substance or high, but just a peace in my heart knowing that a power greater than myself can help me and will help me if it is sought.

I think it is different for each one of us, but I also think that anyone, no matter what our lives have been, who reaches out and asks for God's blessing, will receive it and "know" that our prayers have been heard.

Today, my relationship with God is one-on-one, a personal spiritual connection that has nothing to do with any organized religion or church doctrine. Today I embrace the best of many teachings, and find peace and love and joy in each one.

Hugs

Rusty G

I can tell you the exact time the holy spirit entered me. I knew I would never touch another drop as long as I lived. I reached a humility in my soul few reach. God showed me a scripture. " How many times must I punish you before you do my will ?". I finally surrendered to Gods Will at that moment. After over 20 DUIs, Vehicular Homicide, Living on the streets, panhandleing, will work for food signs, Prisons. I said I can't take anymore punishment God. I'll follow your path.

Something not of this world. Spirit of "peace" and "understanding." Its very hard to explain to someone. When Holy Spirit took control of me, he took charge, he hung a "no drinking allowed" sign on the front door, and you can't get rid of the Guy. So be careful what you ask for.


Everyday is a wonderful day for me. I don't have bad days. Don't tunnel-vision God to AA. I don't go to AA. I've been their in my 30 years of heavy drinking. Several rehabs. I still was a drunk. God showed me how to change my thinking. I tryed my will for 30 years, I know where it gets me. I had resigned myself to dying a drunk.

All my trouble, all my life came from Alcohol. I drove off in a Budwieser Truck in front of a 7-11 Store once while homeless. Spent the next 18 months in prison. I was full of hate and resentments. Everything that goes along with Alcoholism. I am a comepletely different person today. All that's a bad memory. God lifted all that from me too on that Sunday Morning.


I went outside with my cup of coffee this morning. ( I say this with the humblest of hearts) I looked at my yard, the new white picket fence, my house, my new deck I built, my new truck, and said outloud " Good job Rusty!"

That's being well. I don't have bad days. I don't even take aspirin. I can take anything the world can hand me today. I owe the Man Upstairs more than I can express in words. He was a punishing God when I did my will, now he's a loving God. I do his will. I love him with the depths of my soul. It was the only way I would have ever gave up drinking. If he hadn't entered me that Sunday, today I would be drunk, dead, or in jail. He loves all of you as much as he loves me. It's in the scriptures, "Those who come to him with a pure heart will recieve the Spirit of Peace and Understanding. Its in the book and God doesn't lie. It also says when that happens you can't fully express the joy in your heart. That's true too.

CarolD

I have had many exalted spiritual experiences.
God and I are best friends.

When I drank..I ignored His prescence.
It was with deep gratitude when I saw
Him and His works in AA.

My religion also gave me peace
but nothing close to what I have
found in my God/AA connection.

I see miracles in each meeting.
I am one too!

GettinSober

Best,

One of the things I find difficult when conversing with a lot of religious people is their refusal to accept any critisism implied or otherwise. Of course my statements were a broad stroke of a brush - I can hardly reply to every member individually can I? Would you like me to search all your posts and seek generalisations you have made? Of course not as I would find plenty of generalisations made by you too. This is the nature of forums I am afraid. With this in mind I would ask you to please reply to any points I make but try and not be so condescending, supercilious or patronising in the future when addressing me directly. Thanks.

Where did I say it did? I said that it seems a bit coincidental to me that a lot of people find God within AA as opposed to other places. Of course some people go into AA as converts already.

best

...

GettinSober

I'm a big boy Best - you should have left your reply up (I never saw it). PM me if you don't want to trouble the rest of the forum?

paulmh

Wow, quite a thread people! Thanks Rusty in particular, that was really beautiful! And thanks Ann for what you've written, I had a brief flash of what I must've put my mother through. She's dead now, she never saw me sober or in the fellowship, but I started trying to make amends before she went, before I began the programme, when I was struggling really hard to sort my drinking and my life out. I feel sad for what I put her through, but it's in the past now. I'll try not to do anything as bad as that, today.

As for spiritual experience, I have two cartoons in my head which explain how I felt, rather than how I thought.

One is I'm in a great river. The current will take me where it takes me. Previously I used to struggle and fight and panic and exert myself against it. Now I'm in recovery I relax, and I've learned to love my river.

The other is that my alcoholism and my dysfunctional ego became a hard shell against the world. Inside the shell was me, booze, drugs, resentment, anger, fear, self-importance, and all the rest. I could see outside but not engage with it. The point of surrender, when I knew inside my isolated, solitary little existence that I couldn't do "it" alone, was when the shell cracked and the light of the outside began to come in. That's when things began to get better. I think that was the first stage of my spiritual awakening.

Gettinsober, I remain an atheist, in so far as I don't believe in a G*d. But I'm not a bigot about it any longer, and I'm now able, at least a little, to look for what human experience I have in common with other people rather than what makes me different - or unique, lol. I don't think it's about "belief". I think it's about experience, experience of life. People have their G*d, and I have my not-G*d and we sem to have lots in common!

Thanks for reading

Tazman53

Gettinsober I am not sure if I would be willing to judge something such as a successful recovery program that I have done nothing but read about, as far as I am concerned anything that helps a fellow alcoholic recover I am all for.

If it involves getting a tatoo of a dolphin on your forehead and chanting Hari Krishna in the sewers once a week at three am, I will not critisize it in any manner if it helps keep an alcoholic sober.

The last thing I would do is say anything about it unless I had actually gotten a dolphin tatoo an my forehead and followed the directions they gave for staying sober including chanting for several months in the sewers and I still went out and got drunk, but then the only thing I would say if I said anything at all is it works for some, but not for me.

If I just went into the sewer a time or 2 and did not get the tatoo I still would not have a right to say a darn thing because I did not get the tatoo nor have I chanted enough in the sewers!

When it comes to recovery and recovery programs there is something called qualification of what some one is speaking of.

When it comes to alcoholism I can speak very freely and knowledgably on it because I am one, 40 years of drinking and all of the associated problems to go along with it.

When it comes to speaking about AA I can qualify myself as well, I went to over 90 meetings in 90 days, I still attend meetings, I have a sponsor and I am working the steps... oh yea I also have 113 straight days of sobriety thanks to my HP and AA.

Can I qualify myself to speak about WMS? Heck no, I have read about them, but that is it, I would never dream of even commenting on their program, I have no first hand knowledge of it.

Peoples sobriety is very personal to them as well as how they got sober, imagine if I or anyone else here started critisizing people who are trying to do it on thier own will power, I do not even know what they look like, little lone everything they have done or where they do it, what right do I have to comment in any way except possibly good job on thier recovery.

doorknob

I don't believe they have any supernatural element.

doorknob

That's actually pretty common.

GettinSober

I'm not a bigot Paul (I'm not sure if you're saying I'm one or not .) As I posted previously I'm agnostic (not an athiest) - I would really like to believe in God but find it difficult. I simply posted that I find it interesting and not at all surprising that alcoholics find God in recovery. I think there are some pretty obvious reasons why this is the case if you look at how the dependant personality is made up. If this means there really is a God or not is another conversation all together.

On a seperate point if I was religious I would encourage intelligent debate and not take any opposing view / prognosis / theory as an attack. I get the feeling that Best took my post awfully personally - and it's this kind of religious fervour (sorry I couldn't think of another way to put it) that totally puts me off AA.

A lot of people on here seem to suggest that without a Higher Power (God in most cases) then the alcoholic will lose their fight against this terrible addiction. I'm not sure if this is the case or not. Time will tell me I suppose? I don't think I'm stubborn, a bigot, narrow minded or particularly inclined to prove I can 'go it alone'. It's just the way I'm choosing to deal with things at the moment.

GettinSober

Tazman - where did I critisise AA? I said that it doesn't surprise me that people find God there due to the way the dependant mind works. As someone who has found God again you too have taken my questions about God, the alcoholic mind and AA to be an attack. See your response for what it is please and I would ask you to read through my posts again.

There is no doubt about that and I have seen that first hand on a number of threads.

Tazman53

Paul this is something we on both sides of the aisle need to work on, respect, I respect your opinion on this and you respect mine.

It is pretty common when someone has been successfully relapsing over and over again when they are trying it on thier own to share what has worked for us who are in recovery programs. My father died sober, he was an alcoholic who when he stopped on his own did not drink for 19 years without a single relapse.

I am man enough to swallow my pride and admit I needed help to quit drinking, some may view it as weak to need help, I would much rather be weak and sober then strong and drunk!

leviathon

Thanks to all who have posted. In particular thanks to Rusty and Ann. I find that as I move away from my selfish self centered existence (read alcoholism), great and wonderful things begin to happen. When I have relapsed, I have been quick to reassert my desire for sobriety. LIfe just keeps improving.

Of late I have experience a personal revelation. I believe firmly that it was sent to me by my HP or God. It all began last summer. I was working the most difficult case I have ever had. I had clients that had an incredible faith. I recall in the midst of this case praying to God and asking for someone to guide me in this faith as I wanted to obtain it.

Shortly after that I ended up meeting my spouse. She is a Christian. She is wonderful. She is struggling with things that are difficult (not alcohol), but I watch everyday and see how God helps her through. She sees miracles where I once saw coincidences or good planning... I now see miracles as well.

In church I've been amazed. Things that her and I have been struggling with during the week arise in the sermon and we find direction there. We both find a great deal of comfort and strength in our church... which is funny b/c up until last summer I was trying so hard not to believe in God... after all, with my life - on own at 13, violently abused by parents, school mates, etc., I had every reason not to believe in God.

However, along the way, when I honestly sit and reflect, I see God's hand in my life, even when I didn't want to believe. Times when I had no food, food appeared. Times when I was depressed and alone, company appeared. Times when I just wanted to hate the world, people like those I met last summer came into my life.

More recently, I was praying to God in desparation to seek help with the cravings. Suddenly in my mind I heard a voice "My son, I am with you. I will relieve your suffering". I was at first of the view that was just me telling me what I wanted to hear. However, since that time when I pray I hear that voice again and again... it is not my voice... it actually disrupts my desperate pleas and reminds me to be still and to be at peace. It is like God's there over writing the troubles in my mind with His peace, His will and His grace. I know now that I just have to trust and be open to His will and His blessing and plan for me.

It is hard to accept what you cannot see. I know, but when you are still and simply reflect you begin to see that what appeared as coincidence is often so integrally connected to various things in your life that suddenly a pattern of something bigger and greater appears. Suddenly coincidences are not coincidences. Of course, this is about belief... I cannot be certain on the facts that this is God's hand, but in my heart I am certain. I choose to trust that, that is my belief.

My pastor also says, Terry, God wants to bless you and help you with your struggles and your stresses. God wants you and your spouse to have a wonderful life. God sees the good work you do for your clients, God wants you to continue doing that work. If you turn it over to God and let God work through you, instead of your ego running amok, you will have peace and all of His Blessings. Pastor Jim is right.

That is my belief, it is my faith. I trust God.

Peace, Levi