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-   -   Bill W. the Documentary (https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism-12-step-support/347788-bill-w-documentary.html)

Pagekeeper 10-14-2014 05:37 AM

Bill W. the Documentary
 
Has anyone else seen this documentary? I thought it was pretty good. All docs are slanted, as they are edited by people, but overall I felt this one was fair and objective.

Many details I already knew, but the doc put them in a new light for me. In some ways Bill W. was larger than life, but at the same time, a fallible human being.

One thing that really caught my attention was the situation on his deathbed. I have heard AA members, on more than one occasion, be dismissive of Bill because he begged for a drink during his final moments. I have always felt this was wrong, somehow ... The doc really elaborates on this situation. He was gravely ill, hallucinating, and literally could not breathe. He had probably lost much of his cognitive ability from brain damage caused by lack of oxygenation. The doc sort of put it like this (not a quote): "Yeah, he begged for a drink. He is a real alcoholic after all, and his physical and mental condition had deteriorated. Not sure why this is such a surprise."

This is just my own interpretation, and by no means does anyone have to agree with me, but I do feel that Bill was still in the care of his HP through Lois at this time. He was in no physical or mental condition to actually make decisions for himself, but Lois knew him, and knew his heart. I do not believe the request would have ever occurred if Bill had been in his right mind at the end.

Any thoughts on the documentary? What did you think of it?

Boleo 10-14-2014 06:38 AM

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...highlight=2012


http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...highlight=2012

paul99 10-14-2014 07:45 AM

The doc never fails to bring me to some tears of gratitude for the program, for the men and women that God used to bring it to life, and for the fact that Bill W. and the rest were just humans trying to be well. Like me. Like the others here and at the meetings I go to.

RumHound 10-14-2014 08:13 AM

Bill W. was certainly gravely ill in the last 4 weeks of his life, during which he requested/demanded whiskey on 4 occasions. But it is unlikely he had lost all of his cognitive ability, based on Susan Cheever's account of the period.

It's kind of unsettling to know that the cofounder of AA badly wanted to drink after 36 years of sobriety. But that truth simply confirms the pernicious nature of alcoholism that Bill W. so valiantly fought during his lifetime. The truth does not diminish the validity of AA in any way.

Nor would there have been any diminishment if they had given Bill his drinks. Why they did not do so strikes me as a major ethical, if not moral, lapse. Generally speaking our society looks favorably on fulfilling a person's dying wishes which can reasonably be complied with.

Fly N Buy 10-14-2014 08:20 AM

I enjoyed the documentary very much. I think what strikes me, not sure if it was in the documentary - is the fact that Bill W was listed by Time magazine as one of the 20th centuries most important people. Others included Gandhi and Einstein.

A well know speaker talks about having visited Bill's home and grave site. He said the grass around the grave is worn down from people visiting.

A bowl near the headstone if filled with member chips they have left there. Also, a stake in the ground has thousands of hospital bracelets on them......Amazing testament.
Bill was truly a remarkable individual and highly driven. Albeit with AA or other things he set his mind to.....

sugarbear1 10-14-2014 03:47 PM

currently reading My Name Is Bill by Susan Cheever

paul99 10-14-2014 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by sugarbear1 (Post 4955207)
currently reading My Name Is Bill by Susan Cheever

I have the book and it's next on my to read list

Tamerua 10-14-2014 06:58 PM

I have not seen it, would like to.

Him asking for a drink should just demonstrate that what we have in sobriety is precious and not to waste it. Same with our health. I mean, the guy was human and flawed... And an alcoholic. Like all of us.

anattaboy 10-15-2014 05:53 AM

Yup, just a guy in life doing the best with what he had.

Dee74 10-15-2014 06:21 AM

I removed a couple of posts with a torrent link.


7. No Materials that violate the law such as copyright infringements.
D

Pagekeeper 10-15-2014 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by RumHound (Post 4954300)
Why they did not do so strikes me as a major ethical, if not moral, lapse. Generally speaking our society looks favorably on fulfilling a person's dying wishes which can reasonably be complied with.

I don't know ... if I was gravely ill and losing brain function, I would hope others would step in to make the best choices for me. I can say right now, that I would not want a drink on my deathbed. And if there was a malfunction to my brain and cognition, or if I was in so much pain that I could not think clearly, I would want others to make their decisions based on that and not what I said. But that is just me.

WMJ1012 10-15-2014 04:25 PM

Is this in theaters only or could I find it on Comcast OnDemand etc?

WMJ1012 10-15-2014 04:30 PM

By the way there is another really great movie called "When Love Is Not Enough: The Lois Wilson Story" which is reallyostky about Bill (of course lol!) But his "book project" is a big focus in it. It's really great and shows him taking her all over the countryside in his sidecar etc.

Boleo 10-15-2014 04:34 PM


Is this in theaters only or could I find it on Comcast OnDemand etc?

"BILL W." TRAILER - YouTube

Pagekeeper 10-15-2014 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by WMJ1012 (Post 4957291)
Is this in theaters only or could I find it on Comcast OnDemand etc?

I bought it off Amazon instant video. You can get the amazon app and watch on your computer, iPad, etc.

Hawks 10-18-2014 11:29 PM

Possibly THE biggest non issue in and out of AA is Bill asking for a drink on his deathbed..... I should add, to me it is a big non issue.

Ymmv

Look at the legacy he left. He was like Jesus for alcoholics. Complete with prophets who came before him and disciples that followed his words afterwards and many who still do.

Jesus felt somewhat like he wasn't "walking in the sunlight of the spirit" after it took a while for him to die on the cross.

"why hast thou forsaken me"

"God I could use a whisky" ( I dunno what he actually said of course)

Seems like the same kind of thing to me.

Ken33xx 10-19-2014 12:41 AM


Originally Posted by RumHound (Post 4954300)
Bill W. was certainly gravely ill in the last 4 weeks of his life, during which he requested/demanded whiskey on 4 occasions. But it is unlikely he had lost all of his cognitive ability, based on Susan Cheever's account of the period.

It's kind of unsettling to know that the cofounder of AA badly wanted to drink after 36 years of sobriety. But that truth simply confirms the pernicious nature of alcoholism that Bill W. so valiantly fought during his lifetime. The truth does not diminish the validity of AA in any way.

Nor would there have been any diminishment if they had given Bill his drinks. Why they did not do so strikes me as a major ethical, if not moral, lapse. Generally speaking our society looks favorably on fulfilling a person's dying wishes which can reasonably be complied with.

I agree if he wanted a drink on his death bed it should have been given to him.

I've order the book Susan Cheever and it should be an interesting read.

But even if he had died drunk it doesn't matter. The man was flawed and the BB isn't perfect but we're all grateful he helped start AA.

sugarbear1 10-19-2014 05:55 AM

He had too much morphine in him to drink alcohol. His pain must have been excruciating. Cancer sucks.

WMJ1012 10-21-2014 05:46 AM

Bill had a harder road than a lot of us because he was trying to be one of many and allow his ego to be deflated in an anonymous fellowship - but he was put on a pedestal by many. He knew this was causing him emotional troubles and his experience in the 40s & 50s especially in dealing with this helped us even further. His later writings including the 12&12 talk often about the vital need for humility we alcoholics have.

Some people are really used for the good of many.


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