Amends to One's Self
 

Tonight's meeting at my home group was about making amends to ourselves. Not forgiving ourselves, but making amends.

Aside from concerns about this being a little dangerous... ie, self centered, it was an interesting meeting.

Myself, working the program is really all about that. The damage we did to our credibility with loved ones, job, neighbors is made right, as much as it can be. But more important, the separation from God, that damage done to ourselves, the 12 steps is the antidote... :)

Just thought I'd share that, thanx.

Mark

The best amends I can make to myself is by making amends to all those I've harmed.

This is a good topic, Mark, and an important one. My "sponsor" is totally fanatic about it.....It is like almost impossible to go to any 4th, 5th, 8th or 9th Step meeting and not have her bring it up, especially if people are really getting down on themselves and/or expressing a lot of shame and guilt. In fact, she doesn't allow people to finish a 4th and 5th Step until they address the issue of how they treat, talk to, and take care of (or not) themselves.

freya

Interesting topic...learning not to be so hard on myself was a big part of getting content in sobriety, and it was definitely connected to the 9th step, but I wouldn't call it an amend, or at least that's not how I was taught.

It was more about being relieved of the bondage of self through setting right my dealings with other people, as well as the actions taken in the other steps.

This was HUGE for me!
When I did my 9th step, my sponsor asked me to write a letter of amends to myself. I kinda blew it off. Then I started getting a little squirrely at a little over a year sober. It kept coming to mind when I prayed. Then I was at a womens 11th step retreat and it hit me what I needed to do. I hiked up to the top of a mountain and wrote a 12 page letter of amends to myself. I was very resentful of my choices and all the harm I had inflicted on the world in my drinking. After I wrote that letter and prayed and turned it over to my higher power, it felt like the world had been lifted from my shoulders. I can not begin to tell you the changes it made in my recovery.

So this is my experience and I will share that with every sponsee I ever have. I am not sure if it is the same with men, but I know that us women, especially mothers really take on a lot of shame and blame.

Hmm...
I just shared on the ongoing "Bedtime Gratitue" thread
"Grateful to be me" :approve:

How did that miracle come about?
Gods forgivness and living AAs 12 Steps.

Forward we go...side by side
:a122:

Ohhhh I totally get this! I agree with what the others have said...not accepting any more shame/guilt is a huge step for ourselves. Making amends to myself means that I am now willing to accept the good things that come to me and realizing that I am a good person, worth knowing and loving and being valued as a person. I know that this was a hard concept for me to get!

Nice topic..thanks.

Let me move this further...

When we make amends in our 9th step, our goal is to make things right with someone. If possible, as they were before. We don't ask for forgiveness, if it is given... so much the better. But, we want to set things right.

Forgiving ourselves is vital of course. But does this restore us? It is through the steps and the program that we regain our dignity, credibility and self worth. It is only through action, I think, that we can square the account with ourself.

That action, as defined in the program of AA, accomplishes this. All we have to do is work that simple program :)

I still have much work to do, but is reassuring to know what that work is, even though it is difficult at times.

I am with Keith, the biggest way to forgive myself is to make amends to you. It was one of the reasons I felt like crap all the time. If my first sponsor had insisted that I do an asset list on my fourth step as I hear so many do, I would have never gotten on woth the steps. I felt like crap all the time, when I got to start making amends to other people guess what?

I started to feel ok, and ok was pretty good

I heard early on that the first person we need to put on the 8th step list is ourselves. What a load of crap. I don't belong on the 8th step list. You do. When I have made amends to you and live life on a spiritual basis, then I am making amends to myself.

i have made some Amends.. i let people know how sorry i was and let them know what i was trying to do in my new life of sobriety..

Wow my sponsor would be bursting into the room and calling us all a bunch of cunts lol No i can't relate to this one, and i'm glad it isn't in the BB...would seem very odd to me! Totally agree with not being too hard on myself and take life a little more lightly in general, not really productive to beat myself up over things of the past now i am actually working towards a better future.

Just sharing what i have been told to and not to do:-)

Thanx for all the comments... For those who may think that this was about self centeredness... it was and it wasn't....

If I make amends to myself... restored, whole... not giving myself hugs... only then can I become the best husband, father, friend, coworker, whatever... I can be...

Making myself right. But this only comes as I work through the steps. Most importantly 6-9. It's hard work.

Mark

This making amends to one's self is one more reflection of watered down, feel-good, fluffy A.A. lite. The kind of A.A. that is about self-improvement and working on my self. The kind of A.A. that is a selfish program. And if it's a selfish program, of course I'm at the top of the list. The kind of A.A. that turns the results of taking a course of action to repair damage done to others into promises that one has to chase after and get. Never mind that one of those promises says that no matter how far down the scale I've went I can see how my experience can benefit others. Another one of those promises says something about losing interest in selfish things. Some other place in the book mentions giving of one's self so that others may survive and rediscover life. Somewhere else it says something to the effect that we hold the key to life and happiness for others.

I spent a lot of time during the 80's bouncing in and out and around AA meetings. Hundreds of meetings and four treatment facilities. One of the big catch phrases during those years was self-esteem.

When I finally got sober in '91 I felt really bad. I had awakened to the fact that I had single-handedly ruined everything worthwhile in my life and that I had damaged the people I loved the most. I think this is how one is supposed to feel when they've just realized that they've ruined their life and everything in it.

But I didn't know that then. I thought I had low self-esteem and that I shouldn't feel that way. I told my sponsor I thought I had low self-esteem, that maybe I needed to get it back. He said "Any one that treats people the way you do should feel bad. If you want self-esteem, live in such a manner that would make you feel good about yourself."

I get free when I'm willing to make the amend. At that point, it isn't for me anymore.
Jim

Big Book refrences from Alcoholics Anonymous, First Edition

What was in my post that was contrary to what you said?

Mark

Nothing Mark. I was just voicing my views on the subject.

Well, when you spew your views, I usually listen quite carefully.

I get that even just posting on this subject may represent "AA Lite". That even just asking the question may be selfish.

Thanx for bringing my attention to that....

Mark

I wasn't aiming my post at anyone in particular Mark.

"Amends to One's Self".....what page is that on?

:)

If you find it, will you let me know?

ok. :)

"Made a fearless and thorough moral inventory of ourselves."

How thorough can one really be if one leaves out the part about the way one treats and conceives of oneself? I mean, seriously, each one of us is not only a "precious child of God," but the one child of God over whom God has given us total stewardship....and the fact that one has totally abdicated responsibility for that stewardship does not "count" when it comes to making amends????

"Made a list of ALL persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them ALL." (emphasis added)

My guess is everyone posting here is a "person." So, what is it about "ALL" that is so hard to understand?

"Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others."

Just off the top of my head, I'd say the "such people" in Step 9 refers to the "ALL persons" in Step 8.

And I do agree 100% that working the Steps ALL-out will naturally result in amends to self being made. But, the fact is -- and maybe this doesn't happen in other places but it happens quite often here in Rochester -- that when a meeting centers on Steps 4,5, 8 or 9 or even when I'm talking one-on-one with program friends and/or sponsees, it is not unusual for shame and negative self-talk and harsh self-judgment to start coming out.

And actually, as it is September and a lot of meetings are working on Step nine, I observed a powerful example of this just last week -- and also an excellent response from an old-timer. A young, fairly new person was talking about having made amends to a parent and how that parent is now trying to take advantage of that by trying to use that to manipulate and/control the person. The person was basically saying that s/he felt like s/he had to put up with it kinda like a punishment or a penance. It was pretty disturbing because when this person was speaking you could pretty much hear the guilt and self-loathing in his/her voice. It was pretty messed up. Well, this old-timer basically jumped in straightened that out pretty quick, pointing out that the past is the past and just because we accept our responsibility for it and do out part to make it right that in no way entitles others to punish us. He said that part of making it right means treating other people right, treating ourselves right, and not allowing others to treat us any less than right.

I don't know, but when I'm working with people in program, it does seem like habits of self-loathing and negative self-talk are very, very insidious and, like the disease of alcoholism itself, will wait their time and pop up again with disastrous results when they sense an opportunity. Right now there's this kid I know, about 20 months sober and going back to school. His program is very strong; his sponsor is great; his relationship to HP is, usually, solid (and the "usually" is important here because it does seem that being in right relationship with self is just as absolutely necessary as being in right relationship with others in order to be in right relationship with HP. After all, if one conceptualizes oneself as a "piece of sh*t," how is one possibly going to be able to believe that HP would even want to be in relationship with one???) .

But, anyway, right now this kid starting great classes in stuff he really loves, is good at and wants to do, and the impulse to self-sabotage, as he always has in the past, is coming on strong and all the thoughts about how he doesn't deserve all of this good stuff in his life -- even though anyone who knows him and all the work he's done the last year and a half knows that that is total BS. So, you know, we're doing the positive self-talk thing. And I call him and say: "So, K, what did you say to yourself when you looked in the mirror this morning?" and he tells me the things we agreed he was going to say to himself. And the first few days, it was like he could barely get them out of his mouth, but after about a week and a half now, he happily practically shouts them. This I think is part of an amend to himself. And people can think it's AA "lite" if that's what they want, but personally, I think it's about working Steps 4, 5, 8 and 9 in a rigorously "ALL" way.

freya

Freya,

It's not a big deal, but one problem I see in including myself in the 'all', is that I can include myself in the 'them or others' who may be harmed. I can justify not making a lot of amends if I'll be harmed in the process.

I don't give it a lot of thought, really. Standing up for myself, boundaries with others, respect for myself, all came naturally as the result of setting things right with others. My self esteem suffered because I'd done wrong things. When I repaired those things as best I could, I didn't have a whole lot of internal guilt and shame going on.

Just my experience.

Mark your question was not selfish at all. It is totally valid to ask. The reality is, if you feel like you belong on your 8th step list put yourself on there. Don't let others dictate(not implying that anyone here is doing that) what you do just because they are passionate about their views. Your in AA, its ok to have an opinion and a view, I only hope you will stay open to change, when we stop being open we stop growing. The Big Book is not the Alpha and Omega of recovery, those who think it is in my opinion have forgotten the open mind. An open mind does not mean buying into every new idea that comes down th epike, you are in for an emotionally draining experience in AA if you do that.

Freya makes an intelligent and valid point here. This is not AA-lite or middle of the road, this is someones view of the steps, in the end we are on the same page, where we differ is small compared to where we are the same. We have a habit ( And these boards have made me painfully aware of this in my own life) of trying to put the program in a small narrow box. It isn't that at all. The realm of the spirit is roomy...

SO put yourself on the list, take yourself off the list, this shouldn't be about beating ourselves up or using our self amends as an excuse for not making things right with you. When I make things right with you I come into harmony with the world. Don't be cattle in AA. We have enough of that, dare I say take what you want????

Well, definitely this is a risk (especially if I think of "harm" only in the sense of immediate short-term discomfort and inconvenience to myself).....but not anymore of a risk than my trying to come up with other kinds of excuses for not making amends to others. I mean, cuz let's face it, I can get pretty creative there if left to my own devices.

So, I think, this is where a "sponsor" comes in -- or at least trusted program people who I know are not going to co-sign b*llsh*t.....because, ideally, when I am working these Steps, I am not doing so on my own and I am not left to my own devices. And pretty much any honest person with a strong program is going to see and point out to me in no uncertain terms that the immediate short-term discomfort/inconvenience of making a difficult or especially awkward amend is a cake-walk compared to the grave long-term risk of harm to myself that's likely to result from not working all the Steps honestly and thoroughly.

freya

...and I just noticed that this is my 1000th post! How cool is that!

My fearless and thorough moral inventory consisted of sheets with resentments, fears and harm done to others on them, no mention of harm done to self and I have done a lot of self harm.

If they meant I should include myself in "persons we had harmed" I reckon they would have said so explicitly.

I think you are playing with semantics to prove your point, Freya.

We can't ask Bill so we each are gonna have to decide for ourselves and saying that "all people" is meant to include ourselves is not something I believe in this case.

It might be a good idea to make amends to ourselves I just don't think it was meant that way.

No where in the Big Book does it say we make amends to ourselves. In fact, it says "...our rule is we must be hard on outrselves and considerate of others".

Those who think there are no sacrifices that need to be made are kidding themselves.

"...simple but not easy. A price has to be paid, it meant the destruction of self-centeredness..."

The big book also says that we will have a life that is beyond all expectations... That we will be happy joyous and free.

The way some put it, it seems that all we have to look forward to is toil and sacrifice...

Whatever happened to "we are not a glum lot"? I like what Freya said above... Working all the 12 steps restores us, squares the account, makes us whole.

Mark

BTW I really appreciated the smart ass comments some of you made... HaHa... Next time one of you starts a thread, I am sure I can think of a way to work some sarcastic asides to get in... And if I get called on it, I'll just shrug my shoulders and say "It was nothing, not aimed at anybody...". You all have a great weekend...

This is an interesting line....and actually I think you're probably right.......but, in my experience, the thing about great and inspired texts -- texts that remain important and relevant and deeply meaningful generation after generation -- is that they have the ability "to speak" beyond the personal and historical limitations of those who wrote them. And, for me, reading/"listening" to them in that way is not about playing with semantics -- it's about having a living, growing relationship with them, pretty much the same way one works at having a living, growing relationship with another human being.

freya

Perhaps it's just different perspectives?

I did put my name on my 4th step inventory but did not even consider making amends to myself (just does not make sense to me).

Early on, I was told that one of the big reasons that I needed to take the steps was to blow up my huge ego (false sense of self). And that huge ego still keeps coming back and I suffer. Much more work to do...

Self-hatred is illusion. When I'm spiritually fit (and reasonably free of ego) it is impossible for "me to hate myself". There is only one of me...not two. I don't know if that makes sense.

Whatever works for others but I think the answer is to work the steps AND keep working them. The whole notion of self-hatred and making amends to ones self kind of disappears. So much of the BB is about getting rid of ego.

On another level, if I am truly one with my Creator it makes even less sense to feel any resentment towards myself.



Awesome thread by the way. Very helpful!