Originally Posted by Peter
Wrong again Mr. Taiman.
As an old AA "veteran" you should know they can. Why you would make that allegation when you obviously know better is beyond me and seems just a tad irresponsible.
I sir was an atheist when I found AA and worked all the Steps you mentioned by accepting AA as my Higher Power and "God" as simply an acronmy for "Good Orderly Direction"
Yes AA evolved out of the christian based "Oxford group."
Yes Bill W was a deeply religious man who heavily wrote his beliefs into the basic text of AA but there is an entire chapter in the book that allows us the freedom to choose whatever concept of a Higher Power we feel comfortable with. Even if it is the wind.
All that is requred is a little faith in the belief that there are forces in this universe more powerful than ourselves. It really is not that hard you know.
I am comfortable with my belief system and what AA represents.
What I am NOT comfortable with is the perpetuation of falsity about a programme that is helping millions.
Please explain how these steps in their present form can be practiced without a belief in God? I look forward to your response.
Bil Wilson was many things, he certainly wasn't very good at practising his religion, nor was he much of a stock broker. Wilson was high on belladona when he had his "psychic change" and spiritual experience. He was high on LSD for the first few years of his "sobriety". He was a notorious womanizer. He practically invented 13th stepping. He left his mistress money in his will which is a matter of public record. Wilson's friends claims he lied about many things he put in the Big Book, the amount people in AA when they wrote the book for starters. His friends say he couldn't pay anyone to stay sober in the early days. You notice how you never hear anything further about poor Ebby Thatcher after he brings the "message" to Bill Wilson. There are many stories about how poor Ebby couldn't stay sober and how he spent the last of his days at some horrible institution which was the only way he could stay sober.
I am guessing you know that Bill Wilson opposed the idea of AAers picking their own higher power? He wanted only the word God not Higher Power. The chapter to the Agnostic basically says believe or die, hardly an answer.
After the 12 steps in Chapter 5 of how it works in the big book it says "Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures made clear three pertinent ideas:
A) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.
B)That probably no human power could have relieved out alcoholism (note Good Orderly Direction is a human power)
C)That God could and would if he were sought.
Seems I am correct, AA says no human power could relieve your alcoholism only God if he is sought!!!!!
You Sir are wrong.