Originally Posted by
Algorithm 
Even Jon Heller, who founded Sober Recovery, despite his disagreements with Jack's ideas, nevertheless stated in his posts on the RR forums that Jack was onto something with AVRT. I would have to search through the RR forum archives to find it, but it is in there somewhere.
I never said that AVRT was without value.
Originally Posted by
Algorithm That may be so, but you have nonetheless internalized many of their ideas -- such as abstinence being inferior to sobriety -- and are espousing them.
I do believe that. I also disagree with the 12 Step insistence that sobriety is defined by working the steps and finding "spiritual growth" that way. That can work for some, for sure.
I don't intrinsically value any recovery method over any other. Different approaches work for different people. A synthesis of many approaches is what works for me.
If there are things I disagree with about any particular approach I'm pretty sure I'm free to espouse them. Every organization has its share of BS.
Originally Posted by
Algorithm Jack believes in G-d devoutly, from what he's written, yet his method does not place finding G-d as an obstacle to recovery, or encourage atheists to convert in order to recover. That's more than can be said for many ardent secularists or ardent religionists.
He has his personal beliefs, certainly, but OTOH, he's far more reasonable than many would make him out to be. Conversely, without his 'dogmatic' approach, I'm not certain that the space for the 'alternatives' would even exist. Someone had to do what he did in order to make change possible.
Something to consider.
The more I hear about Tripley, the more he seems to leader of a cult of personality, and the more similarities I see between him and Bill W.
He is also not singularly responsible for the secular recovery movement, although he certainly had an influence in the late 80s through the mid-90s. 12 Step is only half the "recovery" game in Europe and Australia, unlike here in the US. There are many other approaches to recovery that aren't based on 12 Step. Or God, for that matter.
So he's not "ardent." So what.