Boudicca,
I think that is a very interesting observation. How does the concept of tolerance fit with the notion of assertion?
I find I am much more likely to be an advocate for someone else than for myself. Part of my previous post was written because of concern about people who are still in the early throes of sobriety, uncertain and floundering. It bothers me to see then being given directives or stringent predictions. There are instances here where I see someone who is barely sober 12 hours being handed heavy duty gibberish when they are just trying to figure out how to keep their breakfast down. Perhaps it is patronizing of me but if someone finds their way here I believe they deserve a chance to come up for air first. I read somewhere that rehab is less effective because the first few weeks most people who are newly sober are processing very little.
When I read threads in which people who have been around a lot time are kicking tires and rehashing minutiae it doesn't bother me at all. I see a lot of it as verbal jousting, addiction certainly provides a lot of fodder for those who like to parry. For the most part I don't feel threatened even when met with statements like "someday you'll see". The nuns told me that 30 years ago….still waiting.
I think I have become more aware of ego (a subject that is the crown jewel of many discussions here). Having spent a lot of time in individual therapy I have found it enlightening to read what people share in a group setting. I am finding that I can often see in other posters something that is ego based….and then I realize it feels familiar. I think that is valuable, and often those twinges of familiarity come when I am reading a post that annoys the heck out of me.
The one line about assertiveness that I try to use to guide me is "not against you, for me". I think the notion that recovery has to be a zero sum game, "my concept is not a winner unless yours is a failure" is damaging. I find it to be a terribly frightening prospect to tell anyone who is struggling that sobriety needs to fit certain criteria in order to have merit.
Your statement "we care so much about you let us tell you how wrong you are"…that was the addictions therapist that I canned. She called me dear and boo even though I was only about 4 years younger. Patronizing, dismissive…ugh, but I sat there and swallowed it cuz what did I know right? And that is exactly where I now see something disturbing. I was flailing about the first few months, newly sober…in retrospect the dynamic of her being all knowing and me trying to do it her way but finding it was nails on a chalkboard seems so obvious. But it wasn't at the time. I was stifling my inner voice and I was becoming more and more miserable. I spoke up firmly once, and it was met with a harsh rebuke, "you don't really know much you are newly sober". Danger, Danger, Will Robinson.
My experience incited a strong interest in protecting the newcomer who is unsure and feeling uncomfortable about expressing confusion or resistance to any method. If I had not had previous good therapy this woman could have really done some serious damage. The rehab I went to was expensive, the bill grew exponentially daily. The last week we were brought in a room two at a time, handed a phone and told to call a service that would contact us weekly once we were home. Oh, and by the way, another $5000 on your bill. But, I was trying, really hard to do the right thing, to trust the system. And who was I to dissent, making waves was surely the beginning of a relapse. I got home and was encouraged by the addictions therapist to hire a very expensive sober coach. I resisted and was chided. It didn't feel right and even after meeting him a few times I had no idea what his role was. I wasn't white knuckling it, I am not Lindsay Lohan out at clubs in mosh pits. When I finally stated I didn't want to work this way, once again, pursed lips and the sense that I would meet my comeuppance.
So I have experienced pushiness towards a newcomer firsthand. In retrospect I think the fact that I was willing to hand the reins over to others who asserted that they knew better than me could have ended up with disastrous consequences. A year out I cringe to think of the forces that were swirling around me.."new blood, fresh meat". So I imagine my protectiveness towards someone who is saying this doesn't feel right has some deeply personal reasons.
I guess my initial response morphed a bit midstream, but I am sharply aware of the vulnerability of people who are newly sober and deserve to be treated with respect. And when something doesn't feel right, they deserve to be able to voice that or question something and have those thoughts met with understanding and honor.
And BTW, Boud, you are a crazy good writer!!! Oh, and nice job on a good thread.
