Originally Posted by
fini what hurts, i think, is the dissonance between the intent of your message and how you choose to send that intent.
and isn't that what you're speaking to?
Exactly.
Originally Posted by
fini see...i wouldn't call it manipulative, because you're not trying to get people to believe something that's not true, but i see it as disrespectful.
I agree and I think that's a much better way to put it.
Originally Posted by
fini disrespectful because it doesn't...well, somehow it doesn't "give" the other person your confidence in their ability to be mature enough to be okay with the truth. to be okay with "just thinking of you and stopped by, Peter"...adding the "missing"... which is untrue creates the distance you don't want. and if Peter believes you missed him when you didn't, it sets up a whole different relationship from where you're both at.
While I have been guilty of doing exactly what you described, I have also done it quite often the way that you are suggesting as well - and frankly, it doesn't feel any better to me. For instance, "Just thinking of you and stopped by Peter..." implies that I missed him or at the very least, that I like him and want to sit next to him in meetings, make small talk, perhaps hang out - and none of that is true so it still sets up a whole different relationship from were I'm at anyway.
Originally Posted by
fini okay, i'm rambling and not sticking to the point.
the point is that you are aware it stops you from having (or possibly developing) relationships in a way that you want. so you, in a way, put up this barrier between you and others that you say you don't want.
or, in other cases, it leaves you drained.
these alone might be good reasons for a change.
I have used the word 'drained' so many times to describe these interactions. Sometimes after a busy day I'll describe how I'm feeling as 'wanting to sit in a closet and detox from my interactions for a couple of hours.'
Originally Posted by
fini [COLOR="black"]By doing something that requires secrecy between us, does that take away from the potential for added intimacy? Do I put a wedge between myself and others this way?[/COLOR]
yes. and that's why something in me hurts when i read the thread.
because it's like ....letting someone win at a game.
that's where the disrespect is., even thought the intent is "nice".
Do you think it's 'wrong' to allow my three year old grandchild to win a game? What parent hasn't? It's a real question because that's the ticket right there. I don't necessarily think so - I think it depends on my motivations. If I sense that he is learning and improving and yet on the verge of quitting because he is getting frustrated losing repeatedly, I might let him win as a form of encouragement to not quit.
If you think that under such circumstances that this is okay, what's the cut off? Is it an age thing? A maturity thing? Because I don't believe that Peter is mature enough. If we accept the disease model or even the ideas of many doctors who don't accept the disease model of alcoholism, we believe that we stop growing emotionally about the time we start drinking or drugging. In that case, Peter is thirteen years old.
Originally Posted by
fini for myself, when i notice i put up barriers, even or maybe esp. the polite, thoughtful ones, i go to fear. am i afraid of being without the barrier, the little tiny sounds-so-much-kinder-if-i-say-i-missed-you extra addition?
sorry if this was a specifically 12-step question; it seemed a very general one and okay to give thoughts.
Absolutely okay - in fact, you nailed many things in your post and I'm very grateful you decided to go ahead and share. The only thing that is different is that I don't necessarily find that the word 'missing' in my example is the trouble spot. Ultimately, while I truly hope that Peter finds recovery, I don't personally care if I ever see him again.