DoubtfulDebs

this is 'doctor beast' in his white coat coming up with psuedo scientific REASONS to drink - i say that not to shut your topic down, because it's a legitimate thing to consider, but because thinking along those lines can trip you up.

for me, it was accepting that the high of drink (my drug of choice) wasn't true pleasure - i don't have my book (rational recovery) handy but i think JT makes a distinction between pleasure, aka 'the high' of drink/drug use, and true happiness.

in my experience and that of other sober people i've met, including a twenty-year AA veteran, happiness and addiction cannot co-exist, BUT, as you may know, pleasure in the form of the high can co-exist perfectly well with soul-wracking guilt, despair, shame and self-hatred.

so be careful how you conceptualise happiness and good feelings, because if it's just pleasure, then probably a heroin binge followed by crack, gin and speed is pretty pleasurable in terms of a chemical high, but it won't make ANYONE truly happy.

also, your question 'How do we find pleasure without drugs?' is another way of your beast saying 'you'll never be happy again without drugs' - be caregul about questions like that, ANY question that contains the conept of using, even 'hypothetically' because it's your addiction talking, NOT your better judgement, and if you get drawn into debating it, you'll lose.

this is why AVRT says recognise, but don't argue with, the AV/your beast, and why AA turns that choice over to the Higher Power - because it's an argument an individual addict will always lose when handled as though it's worth considering.