Originally Posted by
fini 
... the point i wanted to talk about is the circularity of the response to relapse: if you drink again after having made a big plan, then you did not really make a real big plan.
the retrospective that insists it knows better than the person going through the experience.
the re-writing that says: you only THOUGHT you mad a big plan. the fact that you drank again shows that you didn't. because it's impossible to...."
You earlier said the OP was about what is the correct AVRT response to relapse, and now you're saying it is to prove that response is circular.
I would think circularity would be the rule of the day if the Big Plan COULD be made over and over again, which appears to be the opposite of what you are trying to suggest.
AVRT, on the other hand, is a linear learning process. People get better and better at it, decide to make the once in a lifetime Big Plan, and get on with life. No circularity there. It is the Beast that would love to make AVRT circular. Why? I think, partly because appetites by definition are all cyclical (or circular, if you will). From the immediate regularity of wanting oxygen about ten times a minute to wanting sex once a (fill in the blank) on average, with food, sleep, touch, elimination, and booze all in between. But the unnecessary dependent appetite for booze is simply a healthy drive misdirected, and AVRT gets rid of it with the human part of you understanding the never-ending cyclical force of the Beast, and you using that part of you that knows time is actually a linear process, in which you can make a short decision that will last forever. Quite important, I think.
The "dissecting" the AV out from the feelings and thoughts occurring before that first drink simply help the AVRT learning process and help the addicted person see how that alleged Big Plan wasn't really the Big Plan of AVRT. The Beast would love to have you jump into something like the Big Plan without serious thought. Well, it's not disastrous if you do and then drink again, but it can be very useful AVRT to retrace what happened to prove to yourself that you really didn't make the AVRT Big Plan, because that plan renders you incapable of voluntarily swallowing alcohol.
This reminds me of a funny idea I once had. A long time ago, when I wondered what I might do if someone were to persistently offer me a drink at some occasion, I thought of finally taking the drink and saying "I'm really not sure I can do this." and then carefully lifting the drink to my mouth and beginning to pour it, but then suddenly missing my mouth and pouring it down the side of my cheek and all over my clothes and saying, "Oh, rats. You know, if you really want, I can try again. What do you say?" :rotfxko
I think it's these conversations about people inadvertently allowing their Beast, AND our society's collective Addictive Voice, to get in the way of their understanding the important singularity of an oath about never drinking again that prompt me to these memories.
I guess I could ask this question. Can you imagine a Big Plan that could only be made once? I say I have one. Of course, I don't expect you to believe me, but do you think it could be true that it is impossible for me to drink again?