Geralt

Thanks for your input all.

I will try to share to my view on these matters, but I must say it will be difficult to do that without saying some things that might be seen as criticism or at least a different view than AVRT. To be honest that is a bit of problem for most of the recovery methods, they leave very little room to evolve and become better as they use a book or given set of rules that once set, are difficult to change. On the other hand I can see the benefit of that, as people in recovery need stability and clear guidelines.

But to make it clear: AA and AVRT helped me a lot, for example AA with the realization that I am totally powerless over alcohol once I take that first drink or the idea to repair as much of the damage I done by drinking to others, by doing good things now and in the future. AVRT helped me to understand that the only solution for my alcoholism is to never drink again and gave my insight how the pleasure center of my brain affects my thinking.

So perhaps one day I will start my own thread , using all the good stuff from various programs and combining it with science: Scientific Recovery (oh wait that will be SR - too much confusion ) or Recovery by Science (RBS - that sounds better).

To answer your questions and remarks. In the beginning it was difficult for me just to say No, without understanding why and having arguments to back up that answer. I am an insecure and impulsive person, as my life has been characterized by doubt and stupid decisions. Once I had my 3 points why I can't ever drink, saying No became a lot easier, as it was backed up by logic. The example I gave is an extreme one, it rarely happens that I have to use all 3 arguments. Over time the No has become shorter and more determined, something closer to what Nonsensical has mentioned with the dog example. However I still have the comfort of a rational and logical explanation of the No, if needed.

The same arguments were true for the Big Plan, first I needed solid foundation to build upon, an explanation why I can't ever drink again.

I think this is the main problem for me. I wish it would be that easy. First of all we don't really know what the AV is (at least I don't). From wiki: the AV can be physiologically understood as being related to the parts of the human brain that control our core survival functions such as hunger, sex, and bowel control. In my opinion this is where science can help to understand where this desires come from. For example people with low risk for cocaine dependence have different shaped brain compared to those with addiction: http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-0...-addiction.htm

Wouldn't it be easier if we had some evidence or understanding that the AV is a part of our ancient brain and we are actually able to influence it with our behavior? For example we can stop a panic attack or release stress by doing breathing exercises, something that directly influences that old, animal parts of the brain. If the Beast doesn't have any regard for morality, success or responsibility then it doesn't know the difference between good or bad, just the thirst for pleasure. But if we feed it with good things like physical activity (a release of endorphins – a natural high), success with personal or family issues, general improvement of health or a sense of well being, then it will change and slowly forget the thirst and pleasure from alcohol. So I think that the Beast isn't actually a beast, but an Animal that became a Beast through either our actions, genetic predisposition or more likely, a combination of both. This would fit much more with the current theories of addiction being at least partially caused by genetics.

Also an interesting question here was: Do we still want to drink? That's a tough one, but if that means if I would like to have the experience of mild relaxation that I had after 1-2 drinks when I started drinking and were still able to control it and stop after those 2 drinks, then the answer is yes. But I know that this impossible, that I can't ever reach that state of mind with alcohol, because the first drink would trigger the old neural network created by the years of drinking, turning the Animal into a Beast again. However I can reach a similar state of mind by doing a positive thing, for example like a long cycling ride or teaching my young niece mathematics.

Most (if not all) addicts have problems with impulsive and/or risk-seeking behavior. This might be caused by genetics too. While some people feed that need with alcohol or drugs, others counter that with sports, bungee-jumping or other activities. I think that for a good recovery program we need more insight what addiction is, what is causing addiction, how it develops over the years and most important what actions or processes can stop the addiction and/or (depending on what addiction is) substitute it with positive behavior.

That's my 2 cents and sorry for hijacking your thread Robbie