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Old 03-16-2012, 12:04 PM
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Once again anyone reading let me know if I got it wrong working through day six I think and have only finished the book (well the important bits) a couple of days ago.

Originally Posted by pentuate View Post
Ok well, the statement I've seen around here in these AVRT threads is:

"I never drink and I will never change my mind for better or for worse"

You have to include the missing "will", "again" or "now" for it to make sense now don't you?.

So go ahead and add them if that makes you more comfortable, as I understand it the statement "I will never drink and I will never change my mind" that RR suggests is intended to accomplish two things;

1) Affirm your convictions in a rigid and resolute manner.

2) Draw out the objections of your beast so that you may, probably for the first time, experience the presence of the beast as separate from you and begin to positively identify it using AVRT.

Once again as far as I understand it if your chosen phrase of “I will never drink again and I will never change my mind” attains both of those goals then I would think it would work. All you are acknowledging there is just like soberlicious said, that you at one time drank. That is fine, there is no basis in RR for denial of past addictions, only a denial of the ideology that once addicted you are doomed to always be. There is only one condition to the big plan IT HAS TO BE ABSOLUTE! There can be no lee way in this, no wavering, no possibility of any contingency in which it would be acceptable to you personally to drink of your own free will. Anything less than that and those two intentions will not have been accomplished. The first is for obvious reasons, if you have a loophole that you can drink Champaign on new year’s then that is not a rigid and resolute conviction. The second is more tricky, and I explained it somewhat in my first post in reference to ODAAT, and I think a couple of other have mentioned as well. If an addicted person even has the thought that they will never drink again, the idea is that their beast will immediately try to cause them to doubt it. As I have said AV is any and all thoughts that encourage drinking, as well as any and all thoughts that discourage never drinking. So the thoughts of well I can’t really say never, because I don’t know what happens when I die, what if I go to a land where alcohol flows like water and is required to survive wouldn’t I have to drink then? Or whatever the issue the person has with the word, are immediately identified as the AV and by proxy the beast. This is key because it completes the second intention of the Big Plan to draw out the beast.

Originally Posted by pentuate View Post
Then I likely would feel uncomfortable and it would be a battle like it was initially. Like if I still had the kind of urges I did when I quit smoking today (instead of no urges) then it would be tough and torture (and I probably would have failed a long time ago) instead of effortless and an non issue.
Uncomfortable yes, a battle…..meeeehhh… not so much. If you compare a diver in a shark cage baiting a great white which is charging at him a battle then yes, but what I see in that scenario is a man whom is safe yet is still exhilarated, and possibly a bit fearful but knows that he has built a solid defense against this 2,000lbs raging incarnation of death. This is the idea, at least at first. You learn the skill set that is Addictive Voice Recognition Training (your cage/defenses), you make your absolute conviction to never again drink(the bait that brings in the shark), the beast comes charging, and you sit your cage recognizing that yes there is a monstrous drinking machine that does not like me in his waters. No, just because he is there does not mean I am in any peril, because I have learned how to protect myself. Eventually your beast will stop fighting you (at least for now) this is when you chum the waters and draw the shark back out and into view or possibly full on attack (the AV/beast exercises such as shifting). Given enough time it is no longer the man in the cage but the shark, even though it has diminished greatly in size it still charges those bars from time to time, but at this point the diver (you) is off exploring the rest of the reef (life) and barley even bothers to notice.

That is the general essence of AVRT, and the “big plan” or “will never drink again…” is essential because without it you do not have an absolute stance and therefore the proper “cage” (practiced AVRT) you need to protect yourself and eventually ensnare the beast, and your beast (shark) feels no great need to attack right now because you have given it no reason to you haven’t endangered it with your big plan(bait), it can wait till later when you think you are safe or are distracted. The importance of attracting the beast right now is not some kind of macho physco babble intended to perk you up and make you think you are doing something. It is to force your beast to come out now so you can get a good hard look at it and know it when you see it again because you will.

The never is key because without it the beast can wait, and pick its own time to attack and you might not be prepared for it. True I think that it would be possible to not use the word never and to not convince yourself of a big plan and still quit drinking, I am sure that people have done it throughout history. What I think is that RR gives you an instruction manual on how to accomplish this in a through efficient and expedited manner. It gives you the steps, directions, and exercises to beat your addiction soundly and with verve. Rather than a 3-5 year miserable forced march through a vastly more prepared and better armed enemies terrain, with a 250lbs pack and a slingshot for a weapon, with nothing but the hope that you will find your way out despite no map (i.e. White Knuckeling).

Sorry if I am feeling a little too metaphorical today! I had fun writing that .

Once again mostly my opinion and what I understand thus far,
I hope it helps.
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