Originally Posted by
susanlauren 
"the disease concept" .... "primary, chronic, progressive, relapsing, fatal" JBC
I am not a medical doctor, and I imagine that most of the folks on this website aren't either. Whether one agrees or disagrees with the classification, it was the American Medical Association that determined alcoholism was a "disease" in 1956. Do you, as a non-physician, know better than the AMA and the medical community?
The AMA represents about a third of American physicians, not "the medical community" (feel free to check).
That said, it does not matter if alcoholism is a disease. Telling (hammering) into people they have to accept that they have a
relapsing disease, or they will die, without giving them a solution, does not help them.
People who accept this as fact may think "So, I have an incurable,
relapsing disease? That must be why I want a drink. The desire hasn't been lifted, and I worked the steps. Maybe I'm one of those constitutionally incapables. Maybe I'm just not ready yet, like they said. Oh well, I can't figure out those steps, and there are worse diseases than this -
TIME TO RELAPSE !!!!"
(To be fair, I did a
google search of SR for "not ready yet" and got 587 results, so this isn't just limited to "the rooms.")
Originally Posted by
susanlauren After telling the incredulous newcomers that they must concede powerlessness, that they have to hit bottom, that they may not be ready yet, and that they should try some more controlled drinking, to figure out if they are a real alcoholic, they then tell them "take what you like and leave the rest." JBC.....
"And leave the newcomers do, in droves, taking with them the disease concept which "marks" them to continue drinking against their better judgement, and of course, they leave the rest - The Steps - behind." JBC
John, the characterization you are making of the passages found in the chapter "More About Alcoholism" (AA Big Book 1st Ed) are neither complete nor accurate nor fair. I would encourage folks to read for themselves pages 30 through 43 to find out what the book itself says. I would also remind you: the program of AA is set out in the Big Book of AA, anything that is said in the rooms that conflicts with the BB is not AA program.
I would encourage folks to read the literature for themselves as well. I have on multiple occasions here on SR, as I did in this post, for example:
Originally Posted by
susanlauren The book provides multiple examples of attempts to control one's drinking, the idea being that a newcomer would be able to identify with these. It is only after these examples that a "controlled drinking experiement" is suggested for those who are still uncertain as to whether they are alcoholic. What is also suggested is an "abstinence" experiment of one year as another way for folks to figure out if they can quit on their own willpower or not -- which you conveniently fail to mention.
That part - about quitting for a year - is indeed in there. But it is also rarely mentioned in the rooms.
In any case, many people who can stop for a year still cannot control their drinking once they start. Why not tell them to
stop experimenting altogether and to never drink again?
Originally Posted by
susanlauren The "take what you like and leave the rest" saying is really a "no-win proposition". I think you know very well that the original writing of the Big Book text set the program and the steps up as "directions" not as "suggestions". That was changed to the current "suggested as a program of recovery" so as not to offend people.
I do know very well that it was changed - and quite a few other things too. I've read the original manuscript.
It doesn't really matter much, though. To a desperate person, especially one that has been convinced that they have an incurable, progressive disease over which they are powerless, there is little difference between a "suggestion" and "directions."
It's the same as telling someone who has jumped off an airplane and believes they will die on impact "we
suggest that you open your parachute."
Originally Posted by
susanlauren So damned if you do ("directions"), newcomer: hell, no I'm not going to follow any directions. Damned if you don't ("suggestions"), newcomer: well you told us we could do whatever parts of the program we wanted to do. Can't win either way.
Damned if you do ("directions") relapsing veteran:
"I followed all the directions, and I still have the urge to drink, not quite in that position of neutrality like they said. I'm still relapsing. Maybe I need to work the steps again like they said, or maybe I haven't hit bottom yet. Maybe I'm hopeless. I'll sure feel hopeless turning in my chips in front of everyone again for the 35th time, especially if they tell me I left something out of my 4th Step, then I'll feel really stupid."
Originally Posted by
susanlauren If an individual who is showing signs of alcoholism can stop drinking and stay stopped drinking, then there really is no need for any program whatsoever. Plenty of people come into AA questioning whether they are alcoholic.
Many would do just that - STOP - if they where not told they have a relapsing disease over which they are powerless, without being given a real solution. Those people would absolutely be better off with no program whatsoever.
Originally Posted by
susanlauren If someone thinks they are not alcoholic or if someone thinks they can quit on their own willpower or if someone thinks they can quit using a program other than AA, the AA program would encourage that individual to follow his or her own conscience.
Susan
You are correct, the book does say that, but just how many people in "the rooms" ever say to someone: "LEAVE. LEAVE NOW. THIS ISN'T WORKING FOR YOU. Try something else or you
WILL die before you figure out the mystery of the steps" ????
Not many. What do they say?
If they are nice, they will say "Keep coming back! It works if you work it!"
If they are not so nice, they will say "This is the last house on the block" (meaning, don't even bother looking somewhere else - you are out of luck).