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Old 11-16-2010, 01:58 PM
  # 14 (permalink)  
Cyranoak
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Subsitute daughter for son...

...and you have my former life from 2000 to about six months ago. I left my daughter in that environment, I did not protect her from her drunken mother, and I will regret that until the day I die. Daughter started experimenting with drugs at 13, and has high level self-esteem issues mostly demonstrated by her subverting her opportunities for success and self-destructive behavior (she does the "not doing her work" thing too-- typical behavior for the child of a drunk).

If you are smarter than me you will start Al-Anon now, get a sponsor, and do the steps. If you are not smarter than me... you'll try to do everything your own way, including Al-Anon if you engage, and be shocked when it doesn't work the way you wanted it to ("If I can just get her to do it my way everything would be ok."). We make our own beds and we lie in them. Make a better bed.

Please be smarter than me. If not for you, for your son. As for your wife? She's on her own and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. She'll die with this disease or she'll find recovery, but her only chance at finding recovery is if you leave her alone, let her go, detach, go to Al-Anon, and take care of yourself so you can take care of your son (the innocent victim in this scenario).

Right now you simply provide the environment in which she can drink whenever she wants. That's what I was to my wife. Nothing more, nothing less. Turns out I'm not a hero. Turns out you can divorce wives. You can't divorce kids and I am, for better or worse, a father. I wish I had done that better.

Take what you want and leave the rest. It's all my opinion and nothing more.

Cyranoak

P.s. The whole "you are all against me" thing is typical alcoholic bull**it.

P.p.s. Never, never, never dialog with a drunk, even if it's only after one drink the damage is already done (and, by the way, "only half a bottle of wine?" Only? Are you kidding me? She's got you thinking a half a bottle in your son's presence is OK-- Good God). It's hard enough to talk to an alcoholic when they are sober. Talking to them drunk is an epic waste of time and energy with a net result that is always either null or negative.

P.p.s. Love, hope, vows, promises, etc., have no place in this scenario. Forget about them and let them go. They have all been made invalid by your powerlessness over the affects of alcohol as manifested in your drunk wife, your suffering son, and yourself.



Originally Posted by SteppingUp View Post
The other night we caught our son lying about doing his homework... again. W told him to go to bed. He turned (with a dramatic huff) and left. She didn't like his attitude and grabbed him by the arm (probably some nails involved here). He called her a bitch.

I had to step in and tell him that he can never talk to his mother like that. It is not acceptable. W grabbed his face (not hard) and went off on him about how he acts like he's entitled to everything we work so hard to give him.

I spoke with him privately. He said that he feels like she's always disappointed with him and sees him as a loser with no future. I told him that his future is whatever he wants it to be. Right now, he continues to make the same choices he's always made (not doing his work and lying about it). He's certainly capable of doing the work. But, nothing changes if nothing changes. He's got to decide he wants to do the work.

He said that he's walking on eggshells around her because he never knows when she's going to yell at him. Hey, I feel the same way!

When I told her this she started to vent. I took it personally and told her not to react. She told me to go %&#@ myself. I turned to go and said I wouldn't be spoken to that way. She went into the "O great! You're all against me! Just go upstairs and leave me down here" routine.

I told her if she wants to discuss calmly I would. She had only had 1/2 bottle of wine by that time.
She did turn it around on me a bit. While my son and I were discussing she pushed me into the room to close the door so she wouldn't have to listen to us talk about her. I reacted and told her "Don't push me"! She said this was bad behavior to model for our son. I'm not so sure! Frankly, I would hope my son would stand up to anyone who treats him in a way he doesn't like. She doesn't think she pushed me that hard.

I want to talk to S and let him know he's understood and safe. I want to hear more of his thoughts but don't want to make him feel like he's taking sides against his mom. I'm sure she would think that I'm manipulating him against her.


I've been reading a book which addresses "Nice Guy Syndrome" (which I read as male codependency).

We:
Seek the approval of others
Hide our perceived flaws and mistakes
Put other people's needs and want before our own
Sacrifice their personal power and often play the role of a victim
Tend to be disconnected from other men and from their own masculine energy
Co-create relationships that are less than satisfying

OK, here's the Pity Party-

Since I feel like a doormat so often, I feel that I'm not teaching my boys to be men. I'm just teaching them to be codependent men.

I want them to be better than me and take care of their needs.

OK, I think I'm done! I'd love any input on this. It's hard to look at it objectively. I tried to use detachment but I've got a lot more to learn!
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