keithj

Here's just a couple of observations from my time in AA. You've already heard from a number of sober people on this thread, that they don't use any part of AA, or maybe only the parts they like. Obviously, for the right person, long term sobriety without AA is possible. Maybe even for any person, provided they are doing something else. Who knows.

But, and there is always a but, I know many hundreds of people who have failed to stay sober after coming to AA and taking what they want and leaving the rest. And many hundreds have shown up on this forum and failed to have any long term sobriety.

By contrast, I know nobody that has failed to stay sober after having a spiritual awakening as the result of the 12 Steps. That's the kicker for me. Maybe a given individual can stay sober by just hanging around AA. Examples of this abound, and so do the counter-examples. But sobriety is a near certainty for those that work the program as it's laid out in the BB.

I'll also add, that most everyone who is advising against working the 12 Steps is telling you about an experience they have not had. They are telling you that you don't need an experience that they themselves have never had. That's the basis for their belief that the experience is not needed. It's not needed for them. True enough, and i have no argument with that.

I took a guy through the Steps last year that reminds me a lot of what I'm reading in this thread. Eric had been sober 10-12 years or something, and had never worked the Steps. He was pretty hostile to the rigid, book thumper crowd. As evidenced by his continued sobriety, he didn't need that experience of the 12 Steps, and didn't like being told that he might be missing something.

And he was right. But for whatever reason, he started hanging out with a bunch of guys that had all worked the Steps and stayed in the action of the AA program of recovery, and he started feeling like he was missing something. He wasn't as happy joyous and free as he thought when he saw how that crowd lived. In classic AA style, he wanted some of that.

So, we went through the Steps, and Eric had a profound experience and is a changed man. Not that he was a bad man before. But changed now. He is a great example of selflessness and usefulness to others.

His comment to me frequently is, "I didn't know it could be like this." See, he had judged that he didn't need that experience without ever having that experience. Now that he's had the experience, he sees what he was missing and can not live without it.

So ask around. See if anyone who has actually had a spiritual awakening as the result of the Steps feels that it's optional or not all that spectacular. I think you will find that for those that have actually had the experience, it is the most important thing in their lives. The very driving force of their lives, in fact, giving it purpose and direction.

Or perhaps better yet, just have the experience and then you'll know for yourself.