Gmoney

I don't know, Tsar7...since I have much less clean time than you do, you may not consider anything I have to say. And I don't say that as a put-down, but just as a general observation because you seem to not see much value in the input of those "under" you in NA. It just may be that the views I'll share with you have already been considered and you've simply dismissed them. As they say, a new idea cannot be grafted onto a closed mind. I could be wrong, but here goes anyway (again):

You keep talking about affiliation. Tell me, who is affiliated with who? NA is not an extension of the government or law enforcement. From what I understand, it never was and still isn't. And as I mentioned previously, it isn't the courts that come to our meetings seeking signatures to verify anything. So, in all actuality, our only real affiliation is with the addict, member or potential addict that comes into our meetings with the court slip.

There are a few things about the above statement that raise an eyebrow. First is the prejudice against those "court people." And I use the word prejudice because you've already revealed in this thread that you believe anyone referred or recommended to NA by law enforcement is doomed to failure. I'm easily reminded of how oldtimers in my area talk about the days when crackheads (like me) began coming to the rooms of NA. They thought NA was doomed to be over-run by cocaine addicts talking about "smokin" drugs. Never happened. Doesn't our 3rd Tradition tell us that the strength of any member's desire is not necessarily connected to any outside circumstance? Doesn't the 3rd Tradition also tell us that none of us can judge who will stay to recover or return to active addiction?

"Our motives for coming to NA aren't particularly important...We come to NA for many reasons, but we stay to recover when we find and keep the desire to stop using."

And did you notice that I used the words "referred or recommended?" What I believe you and many others tend to overlook is that no one can be "sentenced" or forced to attend an NA meeting (as far as I know). Those who find themselves involved with the criminal justice system are given the "option" of seeking treatment or help with their drug problem because they've admitted to having one (to the courts). When faced with receiving a longer sentence without going to meetings or getting a shorter one by going to meetings...isn't it a no-brainer that they'd choose to go and provide proof that they went?

Oh yeah...as far as the "attendance" thing goes. I've never read a court slip that stated:

"By signing this document you hearby swear that the person stayed at the meeting for the duration of the meeting."

Maybe in your state it's different. But where I'm from, I can put my initials, a nickname or even a make believe name on the slip and no one will ever know the difference. I think I've already shared that the courts aren't the only entity the requests their "clients" provide documentation of their meeting attendance. Rehabs, outpatient facilities, halfway houses (Salvation Army, Catholic Family Center, Volunteers of America, etc...)...you name it! So do we discriminate because court slips reveal some sort of criminal activity? Who are we to judge? How many of us in NA committed crimes and just never got caught? Maybe that's why your opponents are screaming, "principles before personalities!!" eh?

I know my post is long, but bear with me because this is probably the last I'll share with you on this subject.

You talk about how the entire area saw the issue opposite from you, so much so, that they included signing court slips into the guidelines. What that tells me is that the conscience of your area has spoken, and I'm inclined to believe that there are numerous other oldtimers in your area that agreed with that decision. That says a lot. If I were you, I'd have to ask myself, "Is everybody else wrong...or is it me?" I'll close with this:

"We must exist in the world. It's not possible to be entirely separate; evading all contact with outside agencies. Not only is it impossible, it is not a good idea. Cooperation with others is healthy for Narcotics Anonymous. Contacts between our groups and the public help others understand NA better. They help increase public goodwill toward NA. They lead doctors, teachers, police, friends, and relatives to recommend NA to addicts who want recovery. They help us carry the message to addicts who can't get to regular meetings. Letting others know who we are and what we offer increases the chance that addicts seeking recovery will hear our message." ~ IWH&W, Tradition 6

Maybe that Q45 or new Benz might be an attraction for a court slipper or two. LOL!!

I'm done.