imgoing to say first of all that i dont usually get invloved in these sort of threads.kati you sound just like the bitter person i was until i followed a path that works.all i know is AA works and is giving me something that nothing else could.i tried everything to find an easier way out.its not out there.oh and you were dissing AA.if its not for you then fine and you were right when you said you should have posted this in secular.im so glad i dont have to listen to this sort of vitriol anymore.my experience in AA rooms is that people are thoughtful of others,and have a peace and tranquillity about them.and one last thing,i had to laugh when you mentioned your friend that has left AA after 18 and has a good life apart from "the occasional bender" either he is not a true alcoholic for which the BB and programme was written for or his "occasional benders" will progress.if they do i wouldnt expect you to tell us as certain people who cannot get well are those with an inability to be honest.