[QUOTE=GarryW;1527186]Littlethings,
First, you say you think that people on methadone are clean, the you turn around and say they use it to get clean. Sure, there's a contradiction there. You either don't see it or don't want to. Either they're clean or they're not. You're entitled to your opinion, as I am, but it doesn't make you or I right or wrong.
And no, I've never been on methadone nor would I have. On top of that, I know plenty of addicts who "kicked" their habits without it - either in a jail cell, treatment facility or a hospital (if I had to do it, I'd go the hospital route). They did it without methadone because they didn't want to continue using a drug to counter the withdrawal of another drug (i.e., drug replacement program). I'll also add that NONE of them used other illegal drugs during their first days or weeks, so at that stage of their program they were clean. I don't know where you're getting your information from, but it sounds more like personal opinion that it does fact. Now, if you're referring to methadone addicts during their initial phase of treatment...I can see how trying to determine an accurate dosage may involve some trial and error, but even during that stage of their program they are still using a narcotic substance to counteract the withdrawal symptoms of another narcotic substance. For me, this is not clean...it's substitution. It's drug replacement.
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I honestly don't mean to sound rude and I understand this thread was started to discuss clean dates and in turn we end up talking about whether or not methadone is clean.... but if YOU YOURSELF have NEVER been on methadone... who are you to talk about whether it's clean or not???? I would NEVER, NEVER go and talk about alcoholics being clean or not clean, crystal meth addicts being clean or not clean, or question any other addiction that i myself have not been addicted to(for I have NO ROOM to talk, if i have never EXPERIENCED IT MYSELF). I don't care how many friends of yours have went through it, you really don't have room to talk if you haven't experienced it. GRANTED, you ARE entitled to your opinion, but don't put things out here for people looking for help and reading this.... then they read YOUR posts from someone who has never personally been through it. I think that is wrong. That would be like ME going into an alcoholics forum and trashing whether they're clean or not if they've had a glass of wine. And as far as where am i getting my facts from?? STREET EXPERIENCE. I never said they were KNOWN FACTS. In my experience, in the outpatient methadone clinic i attended for 2+ year, the MAJORITY of people countinued using until they reached their stable dose. HOW DARE YOU QUESTION WHERE I GET MY FACTS FROM WHEN YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN TO A METHADONE CLINIC?? Seeing as, If i remember correctly, you go to NA, I MYSELF have not and would NEVER question any "facts" you say about NA BECAUSE I MYSELF HAVE NEVER DONE NA.
I do not know what you've been through and I may be wrong on saying whether or not you have room to talk.... but obviously we differ in opinions and experiences. Let's leave it at that.