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Old 04-22-2003, 08:29 PM
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Transition

I have talked about my ex best friends here quite a bit and I have some feelings about it that are kind of bothering me and would really appreciate some input. I really do feel ostracized by them and I am just so appalled at their behavior after we have been so close for so many years. It's weird because they are the AA friends that I talked to everyday. I have quite a few other AA girlfriends but none that I talk to everyday. I like it better not talking to them everyday. I almost feel like it was codependent.

It's bothering me because one of the girls called me today and asked if I would leave her bike in my driveway, that she left over here, so she could come by and pick it up. It really bothered me that she doesn't want to see me that much that she's having me put the bike outside.

Anyway, for so long all of my friends have been in AA and now that's kind of changing and it's a little scary. I am very involved in moms club here and our playgroup and I've met a lot of great woman who I'm becoming more and more friendly with. Then lately there's these woman from my sons pre-school who go to the playground and to lunch with the kids after school. Jason was always in lunch bunch and this semester I couldn't afford it so the girls asked me to go with them. They're on spring break this week and they called me and have been inviting us to go places with them. Today I went to a moms club event and then we met them for lunch and I was thinking how fun it was to get to know new people and that I love all the boundaries. You know like I know you, I socialize with you and offer friendship but I still have my privacy and they're not all up in my business. In AA everyone knows everything going on with you all the time. I do think that's good on some levels when you're new because I needed people to call me on things and I needed a lot of support.

I guess where I am going with this is I can't figure out if it's a good thing that I'm moving away from being so enmeshed with my AA friends and I'm forming what I think to be normal friendships that most people have. I don't know because what kind of friendships do most normal people have. I don't know if anyone knows what I'm talking about. With my friends in AA, there's a lot of drama, we talk about our issues a lot. In these new friendships it's more about just living. I'm just scared for some reason. Keep in mind I still have a sponsor who I am very close with and about 5 or 6 girls in the program that I can call and we would be there for each at a moments notice. It's just in my daily life I am more involved with the woman here in my community than I am with my friends in AA. I always had my two best friends no matter what and we all live very close to one another so we saw each-other a lot.

I am sorry this is so long if anyone has the slightest idea of where I'm going with this, I would love input and if you don't I don't blame you
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:21 AM
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Searching,

I am no expert I will offer my experience.

When I first went into recovery I pulled away from most family and friends. Or had I pulled away and isolated before I went into recovery? I just could not stomach normal. I was one sick bird and I must say I resented normal. I saw the green grass over there that I could not have and I hated it. I too became enmeshed in program people. Phone calls, coffee, breakfast, meetings etc.

I would assume that I became healthier over time because I learned to appreciate the mundane, normal lives of "normies" and began to rejoin the world.

Today, healthier yet, I know that everyone has there crosses to bare, they just don't succumb in the same way I did. And not all crosses are alcohol and drug related. I have a neice with MS and her mother (my sister in law) refuses to let anything get her down. I used to think she was not in touch with reality but now? Who is really right? Her or me? I have learned to appreciate her outlook.

I love being able to share and go to people who understand me (program people) but "normies" are a breath of fresh air. And when I discover, by chance, that life is not all green grass and share a bit I am admired for being so together. Ha!! If they only knew! For example...a girl I work with is a HUGE worrier and we were talking with some other girls at work. I said I don't worry that it is a waste of time and gets me nothing except grief. They asked " How can you do that???" I just said I choose not to. They did not even get the concept. Hee Hee...I have a secret that they have no idea of!

Oh and that bike?? Set up a time to put it in the driveway, but don't. When she asks say you did...was it stolen??? God, I hate that crap!

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JT

Last edited by JT; 04-23-2003 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:28 AM
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Searching,

Me again.

Maybe you could help me out...this is such a small thing but it involves the friend who dumped me.

I have a firetruck (for Beavette...it is one that he can drive around) that she gave me when her grandson was too old and Beaveete was just right. She wants it back and she wants me to drop it off. Now when she gave it to me she said "I want this out of here. If you want it come get or it is going to the curb". Now she wants me to deliver it back to her because she has another friend who can use it.

Petty petty petty. I want to say..."come get it or it is going to the curb" and I DO NOT want to deliver it to her! Believe it or not...the committe has kept me awake mulling this over. If there is a glich in my life right now it is that freakin' firetruck. Any wisdom??


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Old 04-23-2003, 07:52 AM
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LOL, JT...the bike's been keeping me awake. Don't you think it's a passive aggressive way just to say that I see you living your life not having a care that I am not your friend anymore so I'm just going to push the knife in a little deeper and maybe turn it to the right a little just to make sure. Anyway, it worked and I'm in the midst of it so I don't think my answer would be too spiritual right now. My thought process has been this: She e-mailed me first on my old e-mail which I don't hardly ever go on anymore so I decided, why should I make it so easy for her. I didn't borrow the bike, she left it here. It's been two years and every-time she was over I would tell her to take it, so I didn't respond. I figured I'd let her have to call me because I would think after the way she treated me, it would be uncomfortable for her (see it's not very spiritual). Sure enough, when she called, she waited until I take Jason to pre-school but he was on spring break so I answered. As far as I'm concerned, I'm far too busy and I just haven't been able to do it yet.

Now in terms of what I would say to you, and I'll get you for this, is that I would do what is going to give me the most peace of mind in the end, which is to go drop off the damn truck. I guess I need to just put the bike in the driveway, and if that was your intention.......no expert my a$$
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Old 04-23-2003, 08:00 AM
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Hi ladies -

Can I jump in here?? Oh well here goes LOL!

Searching -

People can be petty and rude, in the program or not, you know that. To me this really is not about AA friends or non AA friends, it is about people that for whatevr reason you choose not to have in your life any longer, and that is okay. I think (my opinion only) that it is healty to have relationships with "normies" ( I love that word). And I understand exactly what you mean about when you are with non AA friends you talk about completely different things, and it is refreshing, oh do I agree with you there.

I think you are feeling a sense of loss because you were close to these women, and that is normal. I would call her and tell her to come get her bike, not a big deal. It is high school to ask you to leave it in the yard, sorry I know that was not nice, but true.

I had a few years sober when I became close with a couple of "normies" it was so refreshing to me. And at first I guestioned myself, asking myself why they would want to hang out with a druggie like me and stuff like that. Than I realized, normal, what the heck is that. As JT said so well, we all have our crosses to bare.

I don't know if I am making any sense here at all, but like I said as you know being in the program does not stop people from being petty and rude. You are a wonderful friendly person, share that with people that appreciate it.

JT - I would call her and tell her that she needs to come get it or it will be on the curb, just like she said to you. Taking something back from a child is wrong!!!


That is just my 4 cents worth ladies!
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Old 04-23-2003, 08:12 AM
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Hi Searching - I haven't had the experience of being in AA, so I can't really give any thoughts on that side of it. However, I did want to say that I've found that friendships don't always last forever. People come and people go - sometimes they stay for a lifetime, and sometimes they stay for short periods of time. Friendship is a 2-way street - we get as well as give. As circumstances change, the giving and getting can change as well. One of the things that can change the status quo is the events in our lives and as those events change, so does our need for certain friendships. I know this sounds callous, but it's not. Life is a learing process, kind of like school, and we don't stay in kindergarden when we should be in grade 3. If you have evolved beyond where you were, then you have outgrown your usefulness to this certain group of women. Similarly, they have outgrown their usefulness to you. I don't know if I'm saying this right, Searching, as it sounds awfully cold, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying. You live a more "normal" life now - at one time your main focus was getting and staying in recovery and maybe you have reached a point where you are safe to take some of the emphasis off that and put some it in other day-to-day things like the mom's club. Searching, that is great! It shows growth on your part and you're moving on - good for you! Don't fret about your "friends." They're still where you were, and that's okay - they may try to travel a different road in the future, as well, or they could stay stuck permanently. Why stay there with them? You have your sponsor and some true friends from AA that you still get a lot of pleasure and respect from. Focus on those things, and your new activities. I think I would be really hurt by their behaviour, and maybe that's what's at the root of this for you. I do know from my own perspective that I would spend more time thinking about why they were acting that way than on enjoying the new gifts in my life (something I need to work on!).

I love JT's idea about the bike - LMAO!! I hate stuff like that, too. However, it's really sad that someone who was a friend now feels the need to avoid you. I'd put it where she wants you to and leave it at that. If you force the issue, the focus will be on that and not on the fact that she didn't have the moxie to pick it up from you personally.

JT - the games people play - sickening, isn't it? Why can't this person pick it up from your house? Just a thought.
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Old 04-23-2003, 02:55 PM
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I still haven't put the bike out. Maybe I need a meeting.......


Although my husband got so sick of seeing it in the garage and I got sick of hearing about it (it's the only room he has any authority over) so I moved the bike to the shed. It's all the way in the back of the backyard.
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Old 04-23-2003, 03:29 PM
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...and the firetruck just sits in the garage. The Beavette has moved on to bigger and faster.

Ward can go by her husbands shop any day on the way home from work. I will ask him to drop it. I don't want her here picking it up anyway. Fair or not fair it will be over. We work together and there is enough tension.

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Old 04-23-2003, 03:35 PM
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My 2 cents? If they want it come and get it....at YOUR convenience.

My oldest friend has been my friend and like a sister since I was 4 years old. Even though we live in different cities and our lives are very very different, we are as close today as we have ever been. We have shared growing up, been with each other when we got married (as a matter of fact her husband introduced me to my husband when we were all 14 years old), and we have shared all the good times and sad times in both our lives. We could almost be the gals in "Beaches".

I have friendships that have lasted over 30 years with a couple of other women, and I have more recent friends who live in my city.

And many friends have come and gone in between. No particular problem, we just grew apart and went in different directions.

My point here is that friendships should be two-way, and when I find that I am doing all the work, I take a good look at how badly I want to be friends with that person. Today I like a balance of all kinds of friends, some from my meetings, and some who wouldn't know an "anonymous" from an annoying moose.

My guess is that it isn't about the bike or the firetruck, it's about the discomfort of examining the friendship. Or maybe it IS just about the stuff and I am rambling to myself here .

Anyway, I am glad to call you all MY friends.
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Old 04-23-2003, 03:40 PM
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JT - what I meant was that the person who is now taking ownership should come and pick it up - I see I wasn't clear in that suggestion. However, if your old friend is needing to feel magnaminous, then I guess that would be raining on her parade Oh well.
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Old 04-23-2003, 06:35 PM
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Ann,

I have 30 year friendships as well. Those are the best...like sisters. We grew up together and someday we will shuffling along a beach together. This particular person I have decided is a narsisist of the worst kind. She could cry to me about her husband and the very next time I saw her it was like he was the most wonderful man in the world. Now I know we all have ups and downs but she would create her reality to suit her as she went along and my head was spinning. 3 times in our relationship she stopped speaking to me because of some infraction I had committed. The final blow was my taking a promotion at work (we work together). A friend would be thrilled...she stopped talking to me. So that was that. No effort on my part to reconcile..I had had enough. It was more a friendship of convienience anyway. We enjoyed shopping together. Nothing ever went very deep. And Ann, I was doing all the work.

So enough of that...it's like anything else. If making her come and get it will give me the most peace so be it. I have a nephew that might like it too. Or Ward can drop it off...Searching, he is sick of that damn firetruck too!

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Old 04-23-2003, 06:49 PM
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LOL JT - Do you think that in our recovery we recognize the friendships where we were vulnerable when we were acting out our codependency? I used to think I was "needed" and feel codpendently good about it. Today I recognize "used" and give it the boot.:p .

Great thread, Searching. You got me thinking again.
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Old 04-23-2003, 07:53 PM
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LMAO Ann about Anonymous and annoying moose,

That is the funniest thing.

I have all different kinds of friendships too but these two girls and I were the closest of friends. It went pretty deep...we knew everything about eachother. I never felt like I was doing all the work. When I was the maid of honor at my sisters wedding the New Years before this past one, I was 1 week out of the labor and delivery room where I had an emergency c-section. I was still trying to run around and do everything (or else my sister would never let me forget it) and one of these girls went out and bought the suits I needed for the kids and got some of my christmas and holiday presents. They were really always there. Until I got into Alanon and handled my husbands relapse the way I did, they didn't agree. They basically judged the way I was choosing to live my life and ostracized me for it. This of course is my take on it. But they made their feelings pretty clear. I think it's really sh;;;; to do that to a friend. We were codependent about our husbands together. If L found an E-mail from a girl on her husbands computer or I found pot we would stay on the phone for hours obsessing about it. I think I grew away from these friendships because I chose to handle things differently. Instead of falling apart and and making my whole life about the mess, I took action and got into other things. They kept accusing me of stuffing my feelings and not dealing with it. I was basically detaching and I was happy for the most part but they were not ok with that. I think they need me to be like them.

I am truly happy that I have let go of these friendships. When I started this thread my intention was to see what people thought about the transition of having so many normies as friends when before my whole life was the program. But I guess you guys picked up on my feelings about my ex-friends. I am glad I talked about it because there wasn't any closure and it really does hurt.

JT, what you said about being a mess and envying the normies on the greener side of the grass. I really related to that. I too am finding out that just because I am an addict doesn't mean I'm any different than anyone else. There's on woman in the moms club. Tall, thin, gorgeous, blonde, 2.5 kids and she's very nice. When I first joined moms club I sorta felt ......you know, whatever. Then I walk into an AA meeting and who do I see sitting there but this woman. We're great friends now. See I thought she had everything. But appearances can be very deceiving. A lot of that, we do to ourselves.
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Old 04-24-2003, 07:34 AM
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I agree, this is a great thread and has really made me think also.

I also agree that as we stay in recovery we grow and change and even friends that we met in early recovery, sometimes do not grow or change the same way. Not that they are wrong and we are right, it is just different.

Paul and I spend alot of time together (that is why I am not here much at night) and some people don't understand this, I have lost a few friends because of it, their problem not mine.

even just in the last few months since I have gotten off my butt and started working the steps activily again and really thrown myself back into my program, friendships have changed a bit with a couple people. It becomes more obvious who i enjoy to be with and who it is in my life that when we are together, we lift each other up and who when we are together we bring each other down. I can feel bad about myself and the world all alone, i don't need any help from anyone else LOL!! I hve to surround myself with up people, with people who see the positive.

I was on the phone with a friend the day after Easter and I was feeling down and confused about alot of things, she is great she listened and we talked, I was pretty sad about my cousin and my aunt and scared for my sister. After a while she said "but, the important question is Did you have a good hair day?" now this sounds stupid, but that is the type of person she is and it made me laugh and I love her for it. And after getting closer to her the last few months, I find myself doing that to other friends when they are dwelling on things. Does this make any sense?

the bottom line for me today is surrounding myself with loving caring people who think about more than just themselves.
(like you ladies here)
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Old 04-24-2003, 07:28 PM
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Hey ya pauly P crackers! I missed you! Tonight at a meeting we had to tell 3 things we remember that keep us in the program. One guy said "stick to the winners". When It was my turn I said well "don't drink go to meetings, keep it simple and I heard about sticking with the winners,but I have yet to figure out who the winners are yet in here. I swear I have to put up a guard when I get thrown all this good sober time becase I can't be anyone or have more than what I have at this point in my recovery. I have yet to be wowed by anyone except this dear guy that has two years and is so very sweet and cranky at times. My type of guy! LOL!!! His story is sort of like mine and he does not push his sober time in front of people's faces. It's funny because we and on other guy are the ones early and set up and make coffee even when it's not our turn. I guess you could call us the care taker bunch or the bunch without a life! LOL. I truly do not trust anyone in the meetings as far as being "best buds". Me and this other girl went out to dinner with good sober time people and I felt we were set up tohear their amazing stories and I guess it help this one gy out to help us low recovering people by him being a million air. Now I wanted to pay for my dinner, but he paid and of course that ruffled my feathers some. I guess for me friendship is about sharing,not about who is on top. For me sobrity is about not drinking and to ensure that, go to a meeting and not lie to yourself. Some people think that Sober Recovery is not a real place and that I'm not getting enough sober exsperiance. I'm in contact with SRF all day long because it is keeping me sain and out of m stupid head. I'd rather hang here than most of the people at the AA meeting! On a good note, my shrink a dink says I'm doing great, I'm down to every 2 months seeing her and my night time medication is now gone! Yessssssssssss! Get this, she told me that it as my drinking caused all my mental problems LOL! I said "no s-h-i-t LOL!
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Old 04-25-2003, 08:02 AM
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Searching,

My 2 cents.

I have noticed there are friends who are just beautiful to you when you are having hard times, but when you get up and good things are happening, they pour on your parade. Sounds like these women liked keeping an eye on your side of the street, now that you are managing it and doing well....and moving on, their reactions strike me as very petty and childish.

Me? I'd drop the stuff off on their driveway when they were gone and forget about it. Laugh to myself about ...here's your consolation prize.

It is just a silly game. And says far more about them than it does about you.

I frankly interpret is as a little power play. And an attempt at a guilt manuver.

??????
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:35 PM
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Live,

I missed you!!!!! What's up woman??? Sometimes you just dissappear and I get worried but then I remember how strong you are and I know you're doing OK. You're just one of those people who leaves a void when they leave because you bring so much wisdom and frienship and love.


Psssst...it's me searching, I just changed my name to my name LOL
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Old 04-25-2003, 12:40 PM
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Hey Searching, I mean, Stephanie - I was looking at your avatar and thought, Hey, who's Stephanie and she's using Searching's avatar, and then realized it was you!
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Old 04-25-2003, 10:10 PM
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LOL, what do you think Margo???

I was worried people wouldn't know it's me. See you were smart, you registered as you.

I never signed my name to my posts because I felt silly writing searching......who's searching, I'm not searching and what is she searching for:saywhat?: lol

Seriously though, when I came here I was searching for answers and alanon meetings, but I feel pretty centered today, so I'm just me.

Pssssst....so if you see searching come back, you know I'm in trouble.lol

Love ya,

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Old 04-26-2003, 09:39 AM
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Hey Stephanie - change in life, change in name, and I'm not talking menopause!

I thought Searching was a perfect name - the only reason I used my name was 'cos I couldn't think of a different handle. I don't usually suffer from such a lack of imagination, though!

Anyway, I think Stephanie is a lovely name, and it's one I had on the list when my daughter was born.

Love you too!

Love and hugs.
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