Luckyv2

I just need to know this because I have my own view on this topic. I think that it hurts everyone when one person relapses. I know that I get hurt when I hear of people that go back out and try it again. Do they let me down? Well I do feel bad for them I hate it. So when we do relapse we think only of ourselves do we ever take into consideration of the people that are in our lives, the people that we have found some trust in us again? Do we really care about anyone other than ourselves? You know I have seen people laugh when people relapse. I would really like some input here?

Are we so damn selfish that we don't care about how others will fill? And yet we keep doing the same-thing and expect everyone to say it is OK and I am glad that they are back when they do come back and it is OK. OK I just feel sometimes that even when we think that we are helping people that I hear it will help you? Well to me that is pretty damn selfish also. Can not people do things for people without wondering what they can get out of it, whether it is peace of there minds, or making them feel better about themselves. What make you TICK?

grumpy_b05

For me I know I am here no matter what! If someone relapses I will be waiting with open arms. Some people might call this an excuse but we are addicts suffering from a disease of addiction. Until people use the "medication" which is the 12 Steps to help this disease then they will relapse. Or until someone has hit his or her own bottom they will relapse. I don't find it funny at all, it's very scary to know someone or even read about someone that is not done with there journey of drug/alcohol/sex/ciggerette/food addictions.

I am waiting with an open mind, heart, ears and voice for any addict or anyone else who ever needs to talk.

Hugs & Laughter
Grumpy

laurie6781

In my first months of sobriety I was aware of people going in and out, but in all honestness I was too concerned about me to really notice or be able to care.

Then when I was about 8 months or so sober, a person I was coming to admire, who attended 2 of my regular meetings didn't show up for 3 weeks. This man had over 16 years sobriety.

At the saturday night meeting that he was always a regular at, it was announced that fourth week, that he had gone back out and in the process had murdered his wife and himself.

Yep, that got my attention and scared the living s**t out of me. Today I do understand that many get here a lot sooner than I did, with lots of material things left, and jobs and family still around them. I used to envy them........today I believe they have it a lot harder than I did. I didn't have a damn thing left and had even lost my life but was given a 2nd chance.

I learned early in the program of AA that If I baby you I will bury you, so to this day I rarely give a pat on the back to someone who has returned, I wait and see, and watch their actions.

Each alakie and/or addict has to learn on their own just how damn lucky they are to have found any sobriety at all. You and I Vic and others cannot give it to them, all we can do is "show" them how it works by becoming a "living, breathing, example" of the BB of AA.

JMHO

Keep Coming Back

Love and (((((to all))))),

Midas

It's heart-wrenching when friends & peers in sobriety (with or without a program) relapse. Every single time it happens, I say a prayer. With each relapse, your chances of survival are dramatically reduced.
Some who relapse NEVER MAKE IT BACK.
It's not just disappointing--that's selfish--it's saddening. I don't like watching anyone relapse, but you can bet I'll be waiting for their return. Like Laurie says. Addicts working the 'Revolving Door' Program frustrate me. I'm being honest here. Either go out and learn the lesson, or if you make it back, get your @$$ in here for a meeting, sit down and stay put. It makes me dizzy.

lulu70

Is relapse selfish? You bet your sweet a$$ it is. I don't understand anymore than anyone else why one person "gets it" and another doesn't. However, I want to be here for them when they try and try again, because I want someone to be here for me if, God fobid, it ever happens to me. Is that selfish? Probably. But doesn't the Golden Rule say, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."? This disease is insidious. It lurks there, waiting for you to become vulnerable, and then it pounces.

I hope you are doing okay, Vic. Thinking about you....

Hugs--

CAPTAINZING2000

This is a selfish program. I'm here to save my A$$


If, any ESH I have can help you that's great, that's why we're all here.


The guy that first sponsered me relapsed last week. He had over 10 years in. Another guy in the program told me about it.

I've seen too many guys blow there brains out, OD, go to prison etc. you get my drift.

Sometimes, we're made stronger by another person's relapse. Sad but true.

Am I saddened by a person going back out hell yes I am. This is a simple program. A guy always says at a meeting I go to, what step were you working when, you relapsed?

S= sobriety
L= losing
I= it's
P= priority


We all have another relpase in us no matter how long we're sober, do we always have another recovery?

What I love best about AA, we don't shoot our wounded.

I've teared up plenty of time when, a member comes back in. It's a very painful reminder

There but, for the grace of God go I

Luckyv2

I guess what I was trying to get at didn't work like usual. I was looking at my own relapses and how it effected everyone, NOT JUST ME. I was looking at all the people that I have disappointed through last year and how some people even lost hope in me altogether. I was looking also at when we do relapse we don't think about who it is going to effect, we just react.

See I am really wondering what are motives truly are? Are we helping people because we want to help or is there something in the back of our heads saying well I will help but then I might get this if I do? You know in early sobriety I did a lot of selfish things, why because it made me feel good and even today I do. I would be sitting here lying if I didn't have motives, but sometimes I don't think that there is a motive behind it and yet there could be. One time I went to help someone and my sponsor said "Why are you doing this" I said because they need help and I am able to help them. He then said is it really that Vic or is it for people to say "Vic is such a nice guy he would help anyone" See that part of me wanting to control what people think about me. HUMMM I don't know if that is all true yet there could be some truth to it right? I mean don't we want people to love us and to think that we are nice.

I heard a guy in the meeting say "I don't care what anyone thinks about me!" OMG I think he was lying LOL< > SEE I just took his inventory. One thing that my sponsor used to tell me also that if you do something for someone "NOT TO TELL ANYONE" that you did it. So sometimes still today when I clean the AA room or whatever I don't tell anyone that I have done it. People would come in and say "HUMMM I wonder who cleaned the room?" I would say I donno, because I was told that when you do something and don't tell anyone that you are rewarded for that because only your HP and you know. YET see isn't that selfish in itself for we are now doing something with a motive behind it.

Now here I go back to what you all responded LOL

Yep it is very scary I know that the night before my 8 months and I wanted to use that scared me to death, I was scared for my life because I am not sure if I have another clean and sober time left, but I made it through it. I hate to see people come in and out each time they do they take a piece of Vic with them LOL don't know how much more my heart can take sometimes.

That right there reminded me of a saying that I heard once and I try to live by it because I know when I start getting cocky it help knock me down (LOL NOT saying that is how I emplyed you to be OK>>>)
"A Pat On The Back Isn't Too Far Away From A Kick In The Ass" I heard that one night on Monday night football and I remember today to never pat myself on the back.
Thanks also for all of your input I needed to hear it.
I was that person since April of 2004 until March 29 of this year and I know how hard it was to get to where I am today. I got dissy myself LOL but I feel as if I was doing the best that I could also. I would have had 2 years on May 19, 2004 if I wouldn't have went back out on April 16, of 2004, I have struggled ever since I now have the longest time clean since then and for that I am grateful.

Yep that is so so true it is very patient I went to a speaker meeting the other night downtown Laura and I can not remember this gals name LOL I wouldn't say it here anyway but she has 9 years and her first words more or less was "I am not immunized from this disease" I need to remember that, I will have to keep my guard up all the time. My disease will use anyone or anything to get to us. OH Yeah BTW I am just a little down but I am doing OK>>I am not sure if I am even down LOL just working hard on my program these days and enjoying life LOL>>>
Yes we all have another bottom waiting for us if we choose to go back out but I like that last part there Capt. We don't shoot our wounded, I wish you would come here and get that knocked into some of these old-timers here who laugh when someone relapses, maybe when I get through the 12 steps I will have enough balls then to say something to them.

OK thanks for all of your input and if you can add to what I started at the beginning I would appreciate that and I have spell check now LOL>>>>OK have a wonderful night.

Love Vic

CAPTAINZING2000

Vic,

go to another meeting. Don't let the smug bastards drive you away. We've all earned our seats around the tables of AA.

They forget what this is all about. What a pity

Just remember, just cause they're sober doesn't always make them a decent human being.

Got a lady in our home group got over 20 years in the program still as F#CKED up as a football bat. She's sober but, I don't want her sobriety.

THE IMPORTANT THING, KEEP TRYING TILL YOU GET THIS.

IT'S ONE DAY AT A TIME, YOU DO WHAT YOU DID THE DAY BEFORE TO KEEP YOU SOBER AND YOU APPLY IT TODAY. THAT'S HOW YOU DO THIS.

Five

Interesting you should mention this lucky because I have read various sources that say the highest predictor in an alky staying sober is what he has to loose, i.e family. Often, the people who struggle the most have - very sadly - very little in their lives in terms of family etc. It is essential that my recovery is actually part of society itself - instead of just about me. I remember that a lot.

Luckyv2

You know thank God that I haven't relapsed since March 29, 2005 it hasn't been easy, but yesterday we had a few people that have been accused of it. I walk into a meeting and here is the AA gossip attack on people and who the bets are on. It just really saddens me to know that this is truly what a lot of this world has came too. You know I was wondering why I even keep going to this certain meeting, but my HP has put me there and I think it is to show other people maybe how to be a little bit decent to others I don't know.


My counselor back home used to tell me the statistics a few years ago was if a man ie had a family, wife etc that the percentage rate of recovery was 55%, now if that same man looses his ie. family that his recovery drops down to .5%. Not even .5% of people who have no family ie will recover. This gives me a little initiative to try and raise that .5%. I know for myself that this has not been easy at all the last almost 9 months, but I know also that I have been threw a tremendous amount of things that most people would have just gave in. I think that I am here for the fight come hell or high water. I just keep plugging away at it one day at a time.

Right now I am on my 4th step with my sponsor, I am doing what I am told by him (not always agreeing with him) but he is living a clean and sober life, and I mean he is living. He doesn't really have material wealth but then I am not here for that either. I am here to become serene through the storm that is one of my main goals. Will I ever make it to that point I believe so.

I just feel so awful when people relapse it takes a piece of my soul I feel each time someone does especially if I have became close to them, does that make sense? OK yes I like this topic myself, it just saddens me that most people just care about themselves and not the needs of others.

Love Vic

Five

Go for it Lucky, its always great to see you still around.

Luckyv2

You know it is good to see you around to Mill (I mean five) I think that you are truly an inspiration to recovery in whole. I think that some of us truly are blessed to be alive and clean and sober. I wish the best for you and I wish the best truly for anyone who tries to stay clean and sober. We all know how truly hard it can be, but yet we just do it.

For the newcomers that might come across this I would like to welcome you all here. I also want to let you know that I do care about you and have a true concern for you. I would do anything that I could to help you in anyway that I can. I know that this is not an easy thing to do by any means but I also know today that this is so doable. I just want to say that not all people are heartless and some of us are. I am one of those people today that have a heart to give away, to help, to care, and to show some concern. I am sending good thoughts to all people this morning to let them know that all people in the world that we live in truly need to feel loved.

Love Vic

equus

If my hubby was a selfish git it wouldn't hurt me if he relapsed, or when he has. It's knowing the whole person and knowing how much they are worth (even if they don't) which makes watching self destruction painful.

A slip, lapse, relapse all may be selfish actions but who on this earth is free from a selfish act, and when did that act get to define a person more than all the sober days before?

The pain is about what someone is worth, the pain is NOT because they are worth.....less.

Time2Surrender

What a great concept.Why welcome someone back? Why not just make them feel unwelcome? Or better yet,just close the doors and not allow them to come back? Addicts dont relapse because they are selfish.They relapse because they are addicts.Thats what addicts do.As for the program,some get it right away,others evenually get it,and unfortunately a lot may never get it.I would never look down on the revolving door addict.At one time I was one of them.Thank God there was only a very small handful of people who judged me,got frustrated with me,or even looked down on me.Otherwise I would have never returned.It takes a lot to walk through those doors again.Introduce yourself everytime they ask "anyone with less than 30 days?",walk up and get another 24 hour coin or keytag.I admire anyone who keeps trying.Read the NA daily meditation for December 5. Those who want to recover

Five

Nice post time2.

Gabe

Great point Mike.
Be careful how much of yourself you invest in someone else's recovery Vic.
We can love, care and be supportive.
Losing pieces of our souls when someone loses their way is risky business.

Time2Surrender

Thank you Five.

Luckyv2

Back in March of this year I lost that soul, I always thought that loosing the wife, children, house, business all of that I lost was important and yes it was important to me. I always thought that I had hit my bottom until I did loose my soul. I am not sure if I even have a soul left although I feel that it is coming back. Today it doesn't have to be all about me. Today it can be for someone else. I don't have to be a person that sits there and puts a bet on if a newcomer is going to make it or not. I will do whatever MY HP leads me to do, for that person, no matter how many times it takes them. If I had people give up completely on me (which many had) I don't know if I would be here clean and sober today.

That is why this is a WE program, yes it is selfish in a lot of aspects but in all WE are the ones that make it or not. I have a yearning in my soul for the newcomers to help them in anyway that I can. Here is one of my morning readings that I got today:

Today's thought is:

He who helps a friend in woe is like a fur coat in the snow.
--Russian Proverb

We came in from a very hard life when we came into recovery -- kind of like coming in from a blizzard in Siberia! The old life was dangerous, cold, and lonely, and it forced us to use all our energy just to survive. Sooner or later it would have killed us. We were definitely in woe.

Someone a family member, a friend, a boss, a probation officer offered us a chance to get sober. That person saved our life, as surely as if he or she walked out into a blizzard and wrapped around us like a fur coat. Thanks to our Higher Power, we accepted the help this time.

In the future, we will have the chance to help others who are still out there freezing in the blizzard of addiction. We can offer them the kind of help that saved our life. We can't make them accept our help, though. We just keep it handy, like a fur coat, in case they reach out to accept it.

Prayer For The Day

Higher Power I am willing to help another addict. I will be ready when You put someone in front of me.

Today's Action

Is there an alcoholic or an addict in my life I wish I could help? I realize that my example is the best way to show them recovery. I will talk with my sponsor about this person and how I am best able to help him or her today.

I have to remember that I might be the one that can help them and if I turn away they may not get a message at all. I am not saying that we are here to save anyone yet we have to do our part. It is like that sign that says "I am responsible when anyone, anywhere, reaches out of help I want the hand of AA and NA to be there for that I am responsible.

Love Vic

Luckyv2

I will invest all I have today because I once was dead and today I am alive, I also believe that in order to keep it you have to give it away. I am not here to be consigned to a life that is boring and glum. I have been given life and a life that I don't deserve. You know I used to go to a meeting where if someone would say that "They wanted to use" These people would say go ahead and use you are not done yet, we need someone to die so we can live." WOW huh that is selfish. You know it talks in the Big Book that Selfishness and self centeredness is the root of our troubles.

I just feel that to be free we must not be selfish. I don't try to help someone out to help me I am looking at doing it to help them. I don't care if I live or die to be honest I know where I am going. I have never been scared of death. I have tried to kill myself all of my life that was damn selfish in itself. Haven't we all, or why would we even be here. Yes we get here for ourselves but there is a time in recovery that you live for others not just yourself

Love Vic

CAPTAINZING2000

I'm not judging someone because of their disease. Might have a problem sometimes with their personalities.

AA is bigger then all of us. It was around before us, it'll be around after we're 6 foot under.

I always go back to the 12th tradition.