I hope...
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
I hope...
That one day I will be able to foget that I was ever addicted to booze and drugs. That to me would be perfect.
To be able to have the abscence of self help related thought and motivation - and just be living, as Millwallj, and not deathly obsessed with words like "growth" and "relapse".
I dont think its likely though, and thats where I have to accept it.
I know that there is a flow of nature that is pushing me toward health, if I stay off the drink, and I think my obsessiveness with recovery actually does little to quicken or inhance this process. That it is inevitable through abstinance.
Anyway - anyone else have this goal as their long term sobriety? I know many in AA get it - except when in meetings - that "recovery" becomes so automatic that its invisible - and they are free to pursue their dreams, passions, and goals. And there are other ways as well, SMART etc
Ideal: to accept that I am alcoholic, to walk out into the world, and live my life.
Which I am trying to do - but its tricky.
To be able to have the abscence of self help related thought and motivation - and just be living, as Millwallj, and not deathly obsessed with words like "growth" and "relapse".
I dont think its likely though, and thats where I have to accept it.
I know that there is a flow of nature that is pushing me toward health, if I stay off the drink, and I think my obsessiveness with recovery actually does little to quicken or inhance this process. That it is inevitable through abstinance.
Anyway - anyone else have this goal as their long term sobriety? I know many in AA get it - except when in meetings - that "recovery" becomes so automatic that its invisible - and they are free to pursue their dreams, passions, and goals. And there are other ways as well, SMART etc
Ideal: to accept that I am alcoholic, to walk out into the world, and live my life.
Which I am trying to do - but its tricky.
learning
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I need to be
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by Millwallj
And there are other ways as well, SMART etc
Ideal: to accept that I am alcoholic, to walk out into the world, and live my life.
Which I am trying to do - but its tricky.
Ideal: to accept that I am alcoholic, to walk out into the world, and live my life.
Which I am trying to do - but its tricky.
Hi there Mill,
Sorry to hear you are struggling with this. I struggled with this for quite a while as well and still do sometimes. I once likened my self to Veruca from Charlie and the chocolate factory running around “recovery world” singing don’t care how, I want it now!
But it is only when I really focus on the how that I can let that part of my past go and really be me.
Quick question, what from SMART Recovery have you read / learned that addresses this struggle? I ask because you mention that SMART has a way, but your ideal is quite different from the cognitive tools SMART employs.
Hang in there brother.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
I like SMART - I use ABC's all the time, but have yet to try them vigourously like Ellis suggests.
I am slowly incorporating more and more of it into my life - after, what I believe, are me "withdrawing" from AA (which is no easy process).
I believe CBT - especially Beck, and some of the anxiety related dudes - will be my main tools for progress.
...but it is words like "tools", "progress", "cbt", "anxiety" - being enveloped in this terrible terminology just gets me down sometimes. It will pass I know. And I must, no matter what, be responsible for how I think and feel.
I am slowly incorporating more and more of it into my life - after, what I believe, are me "withdrawing" from AA (which is no easy process).
I believe CBT - especially Beck, and some of the anxiety related dudes - will be my main tools for progress.
...but it is words like "tools", "progress", "cbt", "anxiety" - being enveloped in this terrible terminology just gets me down sometimes. It will pass I know. And I must, no matter what, be responsible for how I think and feel.
learning
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I need to be
Posts: 310
Hi again Mill,
I like the ABC tool as well and while it did feel clunky at first, with practice it does become much more automatic. You can do an ABC on this “feeling” and the associated thoughts, but I don’t think that would feel natural for me either. You are worried that you will always be in the “process” and working some kind of “tool” which will cause more worry (a secondary upset).
Something I read that helped me when I felt this way is entitled Considerations of Spiritual Wellness:
Having a down day is part of anyone’s life journey Mill, so I don't think you need to apologize for it here.
Hang in there bro.
I like the ABC tool as well and while it did feel clunky at first, with practice it does become much more automatic. You can do an ABC on this “feeling” and the associated thoughts, but I don’t think that would feel natural for me either. You are worried that you will always be in the “process” and working some kind of “tool” which will cause more worry (a secondary upset).
Something I read that helped me when I felt this way is entitled Considerations of Spiritual Wellness:
The word 'spirit' can mean many things, depending on one's metaphysical outlook on life. For our purposes, let us say that "spirit" is a special state of mind, or depth and quality of human experience.
How does spirituality fit into wellness? This often seems to be the most misunderstood element of wellness. Since wellness is not a surrogate religion, no particular doctrines, values, or rituals are to be 'sold' by wellness professionals. The spiritual dimension in one's life is very personal matter, and there will always be a great deal of variety among individuals. One's spiritual life may consist of total involvement in a particular religion; it may be partially religious and partly 'secular' (or 'natural'); it may be a combination of religions and philosophies; it may be purely philosophical; or it could be very intuitive and individually creative. For the sake of health and happiness (apart from the philosopher' diligent search for truth), it does not really matter - whatever works for you. The wellness movement can only serve as a guide in your quest for a spiritual life. We may offer some clues, but that's all. The rest is up to you to search, explore, experiment, and cultivate throughout your lifetime.
Here are clues, based on research and various world religions and philosophies:
You can, as Keyes states, "reprogram your bio-computer" or your psyche (literally, 'soul' or 'mind') by adopting the '13-Cs' of spiritual wellness. Here, the number thirteen is very lucky! They are arranged in the order of their relationship to each other. (Note that the prefix con and its variations con and co are a part of all but two of the words. This is no accident, since 'con' means 'with' or 'together')
consciousness commitment coherence choice conscience compassion cooperation challenge connectedness comprehensibility confusion control confidence
Comprehensibility
Developing the ability to have your own 'big picture' of the universe; a fairly complete understanding of ultimate reality, and a sense of meaning in life.
Consciousness Your moment-to-moment state of awareness. Your ability to see clearly what is happening both outside and inside of you, without emotional or rational distractions.
Coherence
How well integrated the eight dimensions are within you and your lifestyle. Ideally, they are each well developed and in harmony with one another. Coherence also refers to you spiritual integrity, or how consistent your behaviors are with your values.
Confusion Curiously, the prefix con in this case can mean either 'with' or 'against'. We often must become confused before we understand and many things in life can lack coherence at times, especially suffering, evil, and death. By working your way through each confusion, you gain understanding and strength of soul.
Commitment
Eventually you understand enough in life that you are able to 'take a stand' for certain ideals. You can then be happily dedicated to some cause or life purpose. Full commitment also means living each moment with whole mind, body, and spirit (i.e. living in the here and now).
Conscience
An intuitive wisdom; also a sense of right or healthy action versus wrong or unhealthy action, without being judgmental of self or others.
Control
With adequate understanding and moral sense, you gradually learn what you can control, what you cannot and what is worth trying to control - namely, your mentally - based addictions and all actions which only serve to separate or harm people.
Choice Realizing the freedom of your will and developing its independence from strong negative influences. You always have a choice to act or react in any manner. Always be open to your alternatives and use choice responsibly.
Challenge
Life's changes are best approached as challenges, which help you, grow, rather than as problems which burdens you. It's also a challenge to see the positive in and to enjoy anyone and anything that comes your way.
Confidence
A healthy self-esteem based on self-efficacy (the feeling that you have the ability to do things and also cope with stress). This is a good, but humble, sense of self.
Connectedness
The sense that you are deeply connected with the world and its beings especially people. It is a felling of unity with others at all times, because we are all much more the same than different.
Compassion Inwardly developing and outwardly expressing unconditional love for all people and beings. The joyful ability to see others' thoughts and feel unconditional love for all, feel their feelings, without becoming too emotionally attached to them (i.e. without making their problems your problems).
Cooperation The gradual ability to harmonize your thoughts and actions with others, while developing inner peace. Also, your ability to adapt to life, to be flexible, and flow with its ever-changing events.
Note: Your ultimate spiritual 'goal' is to be constantly conscious of these basic spiritual principles. By doing so, through time and effort, your life will be transformed into one of beauty, joy and serenity.
How does spirituality fit into wellness? This often seems to be the most misunderstood element of wellness. Since wellness is not a surrogate religion, no particular doctrines, values, or rituals are to be 'sold' by wellness professionals. The spiritual dimension in one's life is very personal matter, and there will always be a great deal of variety among individuals. One's spiritual life may consist of total involvement in a particular religion; it may be partially religious and partly 'secular' (or 'natural'); it may be a combination of religions and philosophies; it may be purely philosophical; or it could be very intuitive and individually creative. For the sake of health and happiness (apart from the philosopher' diligent search for truth), it does not really matter - whatever works for you. The wellness movement can only serve as a guide in your quest for a spiritual life. We may offer some clues, but that's all. The rest is up to you to search, explore, experiment, and cultivate throughout your lifetime.
Here are clues, based on research and various world religions and philosophies:
You can, as Keyes states, "reprogram your bio-computer" or your psyche (literally, 'soul' or 'mind') by adopting the '13-Cs' of spiritual wellness. Here, the number thirteen is very lucky! They are arranged in the order of their relationship to each other. (Note that the prefix con and its variations con and co are a part of all but two of the words. This is no accident, since 'con' means 'with' or 'together')
consciousness commitment coherence choice conscience compassion cooperation challenge connectedness comprehensibility confusion control confidence
Comprehensibility
Developing the ability to have your own 'big picture' of the universe; a fairly complete understanding of ultimate reality, and a sense of meaning in life.
Consciousness Your moment-to-moment state of awareness. Your ability to see clearly what is happening both outside and inside of you, without emotional or rational distractions.
Coherence
How well integrated the eight dimensions are within you and your lifestyle. Ideally, they are each well developed and in harmony with one another. Coherence also refers to you spiritual integrity, or how consistent your behaviors are with your values.
Confusion Curiously, the prefix con in this case can mean either 'with' or 'against'. We often must become confused before we understand and many things in life can lack coherence at times, especially suffering, evil, and death. By working your way through each confusion, you gain understanding and strength of soul.
Commitment
Eventually you understand enough in life that you are able to 'take a stand' for certain ideals. You can then be happily dedicated to some cause or life purpose. Full commitment also means living each moment with whole mind, body, and spirit (i.e. living in the here and now).
Conscience
An intuitive wisdom; also a sense of right or healthy action versus wrong or unhealthy action, without being judgmental of self or others.
Control
With adequate understanding and moral sense, you gradually learn what you can control, what you cannot and what is worth trying to control - namely, your mentally - based addictions and all actions which only serve to separate or harm people.
Choice Realizing the freedom of your will and developing its independence from strong negative influences. You always have a choice to act or react in any manner. Always be open to your alternatives and use choice responsibly.
Challenge
Life's changes are best approached as challenges, which help you, grow, rather than as problems which burdens you. It's also a challenge to see the positive in and to enjoy anyone and anything that comes your way.
Confidence
A healthy self-esteem based on self-efficacy (the feeling that you have the ability to do things and also cope with stress). This is a good, but humble, sense of self.
Connectedness
The sense that you are deeply connected with the world and its beings especially people. It is a felling of unity with others at all times, because we are all much more the same than different.
Compassion Inwardly developing and outwardly expressing unconditional love for all people and beings. The joyful ability to see others' thoughts and feel unconditional love for all, feel their feelings, without becoming too emotionally attached to them (i.e. without making their problems your problems).
Cooperation The gradual ability to harmonize your thoughts and actions with others, while developing inner peace. Also, your ability to adapt to life, to be flexible, and flow with its ever-changing events.
Note: Your ultimate spiritual 'goal' is to be constantly conscious of these basic spiritual principles. By doing so, through time and effort, your life will be transformed into one of beauty, joy and serenity.
Having a down day is part of anyone’s life journey Mill, so I don't think you need to apologize for it here.
Hang in there bro.
Dreamlike...Now
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
Ideal: to accept that I am alcoholic, to walk out into the world, and live my life. mill
Maybe that is how SMART works....I don't know. I like what Whitman says:
"Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."
http://www.daypoems.net/plainpoems/1900.html
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
interesting, very interesting, but, this bit seems like gibberish:
and I truly will practice the principles of AA in all my affairs...until I don't.
please explain - really - I am interested.
and I truly will practice the principles of AA in all my affairs...until I don't.
please explain - really - I am interested.
Dreamlike...Now
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
Still unclear.
and I truly will practice the principles of AA in all my affairs...until I don't.
que walt
and still not clear.
and I truly will practice the principles of AA in all my affairs...until I don't.
que walt
and still not clear.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
I have issues with the 12 steps - which I am trying to move on from. Transition period onto something else. Mental and emotional agony ensures and I get all confused.
Then I remember to relax and think - its okay. Everything is okay. Which I guess is what you are saying.
Then I remember to relax and think - its okay. Everything is okay. Which I guess is what you are saying.
Dreamlike...Now
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
Then I remember to relax and think - its okay. Everything is okay. Which I guess is what you are saying.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 501
yes, that is what cbt does - objective compassion - it helps you see blah blah blah arrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghh shi t.
know what you mean though. just get fed up with the language of hte friggin heart though.
know what you mean though. just get fed up with the language of hte friggin heart though.
learning
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I need to be
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by FaeryQueen
AA is just like any other dogma....it points the way out of hell...and I truly will practice the principles of AA in all my affairs...until I don't.
Maybe that is how SMART works....I don't know. I
Maybe that is how SMART works....I don't know. I
SMART has a different view. SMART stands for Self Management and Recovery Training. SMART does not assume that the skills and techniques that it teaches will work for everyone. SMART is an abstinence based program that offers specific tools & techniques for the following program points:
#1: Enhancing and maintaining motivation to abstain
#2: Coping with urges
#3: Managing thoughts, feelings and behaviors (problem-solving)
#4: Balancing momentary and enduring satisfactions (lifestyle balance)
So in essence, SMART believes that success is up to the individual and does not presume to know what is right for everyone.
Dreamlike...Now
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
I am not clear on what you are saying, but I believe you are referring to the AA slogan “it works if you work it.”
Maybe I would have gotten the same results with SMART. I don't know. I happened to have gone to a 12 step treatment center. I was desperate...I did what they told me to do and it is working so far.
Tanya
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