Don W

I am going to post each night some of the points of my Cognitive Theraphy. I'll post some each night. This helped me understand alot about my thinking, and how without change would lead me back to drinking. This will be a suggestion, you can decide if it would help you. First will be a list of cognitive distortions that, many have a problem with. Try and identify, I scored a perfect 10, so don't feel bad. These many times ended with me sabotaging my recovery. This is from the VA Hospital in Bedford, and I have verbal permission to reproduce it for you. This came from a study book by
Anna Rose Childress, PhD and David D. Burns, MD

#1 ALL OR NOTHING THINKING- Seeing things in black and white catagories. If performance falls short of perfect, the person sees him/herself as a total failure.

#2 OVERGENERALIZATION- Seeing a single negitive event as a never-ending pattern of defeat.

#3 MENTAL FILTER- Picking out a single negitive detail and dwelling on it exclusively so the person's vision of all reality becomes darkened.

#4 DISQUALIFYING THE POSITIVE- Rejecting positive experences by insisting that they "don't count."

#5 JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS - Formulating negitive interretations without sufficent evidence. This might involve misreading the minds of others or predicting negitive outcomes for oneself.

#6 MAGNIFICATION( CATASTROPHIZING) OR MINIMIZATION - Exaggerating the importance of errors of problems, or inappropriately belittling the signifence of one's own assets.

#7 EMOTIONAL REASONING - Assuming that one's negitive emotions necessarily reflect the way things are.

#8 SHOULD STATEMENTS - Trying to motivate oneself to improve with "shoulds and shouldn'ts" as if one were a delinkquent requiring punishment in order to accomplish anything.

#9 LABELING - An extreme form of overgeneralization. Instead of saying " I made a mistake" the person attaches a negitive label to him/herself
ie; I'm a loser, to themself or others.

#10 PERSONALIZATION - Blaming oneself inappropriatly as the cause of a negitive event.

See if you can identify with some of these. Remember, many of these distortions were learned, and can be unlearned. We have to step back, look at the situation, and collect facts. All of these at one point of time in my life, were my shoot from the hip thoughts or automatic thoughts. As bad as they sound, some were with me my whole life. Learning some when I was a young child. I'm 56 now, no wonder their automatic. I'll continue Thursday night.

Progress not Perfection, Don W

chinadoll

Oooh, I just finished working through this in therapy. We've just finished learning to untwist these distortions. I didn't realise how distorted my thinking was!

Andy F

Hi Don

We have the same program! Though a little reductionist cognitive therapy has been a tonic to me in asserting that I can change my thinking. The distortions you quote are enlarged upon in David Burns 'Handbook to feeling good'. Very interesting his comments re. depression and cognitive therapy. I look forward to reading about your progress.

Don S

These are great, Don W. This kind of approach is from REBT, which is the basis of SMART Recovery. The Albert Ellis Institute has lots of great information about these approaches at http://www.rebt.org/
You can change your thinking, and by doing so you can change your behavior. Here's an article that might be of interest:

Are You Aware of Your Thoughts ?

An Exercise for Change
excerpt from Rational Thinking by Peter Shepherd




An event is interpreted, judged and labelled in such a way that a particular emotional response is inevitable. You are constantly describing the world to yourself, giving each event or experience some label. You make interpretations of what you see or hear, you judge events as good or bad, painful or pleasurable, you predict whether they will bring danger or relative safety. Since childhood people have been telling you what to think. You have been conditioned by family, friends and the media to interpret events in certain ways.

These labels and judgements are fashioned from the unending dialogue you have with yourself, and colour all your experience with private meanings. The thoughts are constant and rarely noticed, since they are without prior reflection or reasoning, but they are powerful enough to stimulate your most intense emotions. Such "self-talk" is often composed of just a few essential words or a brief visual image, acting as a label for a collection of painful memories, fears or self-reproaches. They would be seen as unrealistic, exaggerated and over-generalised if reviewed objectively, but in practice they appear automatically in response to stimuli. They just pop into the mind and are believed without being questioned or challenged, nor are their implications and conclusions subjected to logical analysis.

Automatic thoughts are often couched in terms of "should", "ought" or "must" and their negatives. Each iron-clad "should" precipitates a sense of guilt, or loss of self-esteem. Also automatic thoughts tend to be pessimistic, always expecting the worst and are the major source of anxiety. Because they are reflexive and plausible, automatic thoughts weave unnoticed through the fabric of your own (conscious) thinking. They seem to come and go with a will of their own and they also tend to act as cues for each other - one depressing thought triggering a chain of associated thoughts reinforcing the depression. To consider something is awful, is to attach a self-created traumatic tag to what is in reality simply what is there.

Preoccupation or obsession with one type of thought causes tunnel vision, in which only those aspects of existence that support that way of thinking are recognised. The result is one predominant and usually quite painful emotion, such as chronic anger, anxiety or depression. Tunnel vision is the foundation of neurosis and is the opposite of awareness.

Increasing awareness requires noticing and questioning automatic thoughts, particularly those which are causing continued painful feelings. Regard your thoughts as a slow-motion film. Look at your internal dialogue frame by frame - notice the millisecond it takes to say "I can't stand it", or the half-second image of a terrifying event. Notice if you are internally describing and interpreting the actions of others: "She's bored ... He's putting me down".

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Doug

Good thread so far.

Don W

Thanks, Don S. Your are correct. The SmartRecovery Program, has cognitive theraphy in their program. I was first exposed at the VA Hospital. They also have people from Smart come in now. Although it is an elective class, and those that choose not to can leave. As you might remember some of the different programs were presented here. Got pretty hot at times, didn't it? Anyway, this time around I've choose not to keep any door closed. You never know where help will come from. In my case, I've found taking pieces from each program has helped. Although, AA is my main program, others like smart has helped address the multipule probems addicts can have. The part of change is helped with this cognitive theraphy. I'll be posting more starting Monday. Work has been busy and I use my work computer. This is sort of the idea I had in mind. Different information from different sources. Sort of like meetings. You'll hear the same things, and then some presents it in a way that clicks. As you said, many are learned so, they can be unlearned. I feel the trick is to understanding what is wrong about your thoughts? What evidence have you used? Could that evidence have been false? Example, for years groing up my father told me I was stupid. Even took me out of school 9th grade, claiming it was a waste. I really believed I was stupid most of my adult life. I would excell at a job and quit, when people said I was smart. I'm just starting to understand, that I was afraid they would find out I was really stupid. I applied for a job here at the hospital working in instrument room. They decided to offer me a supervisor position, it took them 3 days to convince me. If we really believe something that was taught to us, it is difficult to change. Sometimes we have to be forced like I was. We believe these things as fact ,so until we open up and get exposed to different facts it is difficult. The key is to open yourself to change, open yourself to the fact you might be wrong. Look at the evidence, ask for help, you might have to go to family members and friends to help you judge. In my case I was able to find out something I never knew. My father was taking Thorazine. He was unstable, no matter how well I did a task, it may not have made a difference. I then remebered him calling my older sister stupid and she was getting straight A's in school. So, I wasn't stupid, he was sick. I carried that for 50 years. I'm sure many others also have been saddled with this type of problem. I can see now why some of us have multiple relapse until this is addressed. I got some of this from your post and my understanding of what you were saying. Others might hear another message. Don W

Don W

One of the excercises they have us do is the following. We make 5 columns.
Situation-Emotions-Automatic Thoughts-Distortions-Rational Response

I'll make an example:

Situation;
I'm in a rehab center. Returning to work after.
Emtions;
Shame, embarrased, nervous
Automatic Thoughts;
They are going to ask where I was.
They are going to think I'm a loser.
They'll be angry having to cover for me
Distortions;
They know I'm a drunk.
They know I'm in a rehab.
They are going to think I'm a loser.
They are going to laugh at me.
Rational response; After thinking fact over.
I'm assuming they know where I am.
In this day and age, even if they know, they could be supportive.
You may have done a good job before and they are happy to have that person back.
I've worked very hard, although a few mike make light, most people will be supportive.

I've been an a few rehabs and went through this each time. I would make myself sick and be ready to quit a good job, like the one I have now. I built all these fears in my mind without any facts to back them. In fact I blew right over my past experence. Other jobs when I returned I found people very kind and many didn't even know why. They just thought I was sick and were glad to have me back. Try this and post a situation that you blew way out of context and found the facts were completely opposite. Tuesday night, I'll post about one that feed my alcoholism and PTSD, off of each other. The trick is to get these thoughts out of our minds. Either on paper or telling someone helps. Due to addictions our minds are not always rational, on paper they become something we can work on. Sort of like someone giving directions on how to get somewhere. We get lost because we really believe we remember correctly the directions. If we look at a set of directions on paper, we get a very different picture. Our minds can be fooled but, we can change the automatic thought we learned from it. This I hope will help show you also, why we must step back and think, and overide our automatic thought when needed. Down the road, with practice, our rational response will be come our automatic response. Just be patient with yourselves it take time. Although I still have moments, I am happy to relay that I find it all worth the work, when my automatic response is something positive about myself, YES, this happens. Don W

Dunitall

Don (& Don)

This is great. Thanks very much.

I particularly associate with the piece about "learned behaviours" and the repeated dialogue inside my head. I grew up with the memory of my Mum saying "You're not to be trusted". She even said it to my fiancee the first time she met her 3 years ago.

So of course in my dark drinking days, I replayed those tapes in my head and created situations which demonstrated that I clearly could not be trusted or relied upon. What a BUMMER!!

Through AA and one to one counselling, I am learning to question those feelings and readjust my own thought process. I go back to specific events when Mum said these things and ask myself. "What condition was she in then? Was she sober? Was she projecting her own anger at me?" This way, I have been able to rationalise the thoughts which I had and most importantly change my attitudes to myself.

Hope we can keep this thread going.

Rich

Don W

Hi Rich, I can relate. My father used to say things like your Mum and worse. For years I struggled with, " maybe I was a bad kid". Maybe if I had done a better job mowing the lawn or weeding the garden, he wouldn't have had to strap me. Maybe if I didn't sneak of to play ball instead of working in the yard. In the last year after questioning family members, I found out that my father was on Thorazine. I do remember him being out of his mind at times. He'd try to get out of the house not dressed. Being a kid, I did what most kids do and goof off sometimes. Also, being young I never gave much thought to his strange actions. All these years it took for me to find out he was sick, I wasn't bad. I'm not even sure what Thorazine is for but, my sister said it kept him stable. Thank God. Because he would have killed us during some of the beatings.
Sadly, he'd get tired and force one of us to strap the others in his place. I also for some strange reason became that person at times. Only I had to drink in order to do it. Is it possible we drank to become what we thought we were suppose to be? Like you said, you thought you were untrustworthy, so you drank to be able to do it. Sober, I couldn't steal from or cheat family and friends. Drinking I had no problem. Even able to blame them or convince myself they deserved it. I am so happy we are changing these thoughts. We don't have to be the person someone says we are. We can be the person we'd like to be. I can see it on all these boards. The compassion, the sharing and the love from people that were suppose to be bad news. I'm still amazed at the change in people after being off alcohol/drugs for just a little while. I see it at the VA all the time. I'll see people just starting the program, all gruff, bewildered and angry. Over the next few weeks it is like one of those make over shows. Don W

Dan

Hi Don W.
I found this reading up about Albert Ellis, I believe the founder of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy (REBT). (Please correct me Don S. if I'm wrong about that!)

12 Irrational Ideas That Cause and Sustain Neurosis

1. The idea that it is a dire necessity for adults to be loved by significant others for almost everything they do -- instead of their concentrating on their own self-respect, on winning approval for practical purposes, and on loving rather than on being loved.

2. The idea that certain acts are awful or wicked, and that people who perform such acts should be severely damned -- instead of the idea that certain acts are self-defeating or antisocial, and that people who perform such acts are behaving stupidly, ignorantly, or neurotically, and would be better helped to change. People's poor behaviors do not make them rotten individuals.

3. The idea that it is horrible when things are not the way we like them to be -- instead of the idea that it is too bad, that we would better try to change or control bad conditions so that they become more satisfactory, and, if that is not possible, we had better temporarily accept and gracefully lump their exis tence.

4. The idea that human misery is invariably externally caused and is forced on us by outside people and events -- instead of the idea that neurosis is largely caused by the view that we take of unfortunate conditions.

5. The idea that if something is or may be dangerous or fearsome we should be terribly upset and endlessly obsess about it -- instead of the idea that one would better frankly face it and render it non-dangerous and, when that is not possible, accept the inevitable.

6. The idea that it is easier to avoid than to face life difficulties and self-responsibilities -- instead of the idea that the so-called easy way is usually much harder in the long run.

7. The idea that we absolutely need something other or stronger or greater than ourself on which to rely -- instead of the idea that it is better to take the risks of thinking and acting less depen dently.

8. The idea that we should be thoroughly competent, intelligent, and achieving in all possible respects -- instead of the idea that we would better do rather than always need to do well and accept ourself as a quite imperfect creature, who has general human limitations and specific fallibilities.

9. The idea that because something once strongly affected our life, it should indefinitely affect it -- instead of the idea that we can learn from our past experiences but not be overly-attached to or prejudiced by them.

10. The idea that we must have certain and perfect control over things -- instead of the idea that the world is full of probability and chance and that we can still enjoy life despite this.

11. The idea that human happiness can be achieved by inertia and inaction -- instead of the idea that we tend to be happiest when we are vitally absorbed in creative pursuits, or when we are devoting ourselves to people or projects outside ourselves.

12. The idea that we have virtually no control over our emotions and that we cannot help feeling disturbed about things -- instead of the idea that we have real control over our destructive emotions if we choose to work at changing the masturbatory (self indulgent) hypotheses which we often employ to create them.

Every single one of those statements describes part of my beliefs at one time or another. Still stuggling with some, and seeing much improvement with others. Like you said in your opening post Don, progress, not perfection.

Dunitall

Guys

This is just fascinating!!

There are so many themes running through all these posts about our learned behaviours and perceived attitudes that are just so part of my life story.

It's so comforting to recognise the symptoms which initially dragged us into alcoholism. Even more though, it's so rewarding to know that each of us has the tools to find the way out and stay out.

Knowing what I know now, I have been able to change my behaviours, reactions and attitudes. Day at a time, I actually feel that I am not only growing spiritually with our programme, but also growing up.

What a powerful thread. Thank you all so much.

Rich

Don W

Hi Dan, I'll just start with number 1. This discribes my feeling that everyone had to like me. I had to recieve compliments even though many I'd discount. Sometime, I'd catch myself almost saying out loud, See Dad, They think I do a good job. I would work a job, do really well. Many of them were different fields so I'd have to learn on the job. I'd work my way up, then leave for another job. There were times that I would feel I was proving to my father that I wasn't dumb. By the way my father died in 67, so like my wife said many times, he was still controling me from the grave. I can think back and remember saying, Hey, if I was so dumb, how could I work all these different jobs and excel. I've gotten passed this for the most part. However, I just wanted to show how learning I was stupid, lasted way past evidence that I wasn't. Is this sort of a form of brainwashing? Was I over the edge fighting with someone not even living? This ended not, by my accomplishing something but, by finding the simple fact he was sick. I've even done something I swore I'd never do. I prayed and forgave him, and let him know although it still hurts to remember, I understand he had an illness. How can sometimes something so simple, can't be seen by us? We must be led to it. I'm going to do these slowly and write a response to each that applies to me. I only have 9 more to go, and the rest of my life to do it. There is some powerful workings going on here. Don W

Andy F

I related one day to a psychotherapist that I was at work feeling fine one minute and the next I felt awful, I hated my job and I simply didn't want to be there. She asked me if I could remember what I was thinking just before my change in mood, but I didn't know. Much of my thoughts or beliefs in a situation are so automatic that I don't really think about them, I just jump to conclusions. A lot of my core beliefs about how things 'should' be and how myself and others 'should' behave are already formed and unfortunatey a lot of them are unhelpful and got me into trouble. Once I started being willing to listen out for my thoughts I started to get glimpses into what I was thinking. Once I knew what I was thinking, then I was able to begin to challenge those thoughts, thus changing how I felt. This is ongoing for me and I don't do it without help.

I shout at people who drive badly because I have preformed views on how they should drive. For example, they shouldn't get in my way and they should drive to my standards. That's the previously unidentified belief, in my case, behind my automatic shouting at car drivers. Once I see my beliefs then I can start challenging them.

I was at work the other day feeling fine, then bang, I felt terrible and didn't want to be there, but with great effort I was now in the moment and was able to identify what I was thinking that caused the sudden change in my mood. In short, I had started looking at the job and realised aspects were not perfect, then one negative thought led to another, then I felt like I would have to take on someone elses responsibilty to rectify matters and I was angry at being put in that position even though ...etc. Because I actually saw the thinking I was able and willing to challenge the beliefs I have which are nrmally automatic.

My predetermined automatic thoughts which dictated my actions were learned from my parents, school, young offenders instituitions, alcoholics anonymous, etc.

This has been a very enjoyable thread for me and I thank you all for it. For me, this subject represents real, permanent and ongoing change.

regards

Andy

Dunitall

Hi Everyone

Well did I get an eye opener today. I was having my weekly one to one session with my counsellor and I was explaining the work I’m currently doing on Step 4.

We got talking about where my feelings of self doubt, anxiety and fear originate from. Some feelings are clearly based in family of origin. However, he picked up on my Army career. We got to focussing on one particularly harrowing tour which I led in Northern Ireland. During this tour of duty four of my soldiers were killed in a bombing incident. To cut a long story short my counsellor told me that I am suffering from something he calls “Survivor Syndrome”. (A form of PTSD). Basically, I live with the feeling that I shouldn’t be here today, It should have been me and I don’t deserve to be here.

I actually thought I had dealt with those issues. But it appears now that I’m in recovery and facing up to my fears, the really deep dark stuff which I kept corked up in a bottle is getting out now. Blimey, I know how hard I drank after that event to drown the memories, but 15 years on….what’s all that about??

There is a strong possibility that is the precise event which took me over the line from acceptable drinking to alcoholism. Not that it matters so much how I became an alcoholic, just the fact that I’m working my recovery. Still, it helps me to concentrate on specific issues as I deal with my feelings and continue my recovery.

He has suggested hypnosis as a means to get right to the core of this. I’m not so sure about this as the thought of it scares the heck out of me. Guess if I’m facing up to my fears though, it might be worth doing.

Thanks for listening everyone.

Rich

Don W

Hi Rich, I can identify with your post. Being treated at the Veterans Hospital, I hear all the time guys talk about the guilt of having survived while friends didn't. There were 5 kids, from my town, that I grew up with and played sports with that got killed in Vietnam. I used to march in the parades and help pay respect for their sacrifice.
Many times I'd be in tears wondering why them and not me. This was guilt enoufg but, because I had such a low esteem, at times I'd get jealous of all the nice things people were saying about them. I'm still not sure why or even if others have felt the same. In fact, this is the first I've told someone, out of fear of embarrasement. Although, I have to tell you that people that are the sole survivor of car wrecks, fires etc. go through the same thing. I've read about problems that many that survived 911, have big problems having lost co-workes and friends. I also thought I'd worked past it, however, sometimes like my jealousy, I kept as a dark secret. In your case and others that were in wars, it is very difficult to seperate in the mind, the part that feels killing someone is wrong and the part that understands that his/her duty might call for it. Morning Glory helped me with this at one time. Having seen that woman and children were killed with my help made me and others feel like a child killer. Returning and being called one by protesters validated those beliefs. This is a good example of cognitive distortion. All the evedence poited to the fact I was doing my duty but, I couldn't stop seeing myself as a willing partner in some sort of plot to kill.
People would tell me and I'd say the old, I know, I know. I think your counselor is correct. This needs to be brought out. Sometimes, something strange will do it. What brought mine out was when John Kerry ran for president. First off I want to tell anyone that might be offended, this was a personal feeling, that needed to be addressed. Many other Veterans had the same experence as I. This brought to the surface our anger. In my case I called and wrote letters to his committee and was able to verbalize my feelings. Although, it didn't change things, I had some long conversations with his people, I had told them up front my feeling but, I'd talk with an open mind. We ended not changing each others view but, respecting it. I've since been able to move forward with some progress. The big thing Rich, you did your best. Wars are terrible enough but, when there is much controversy it is harder. We've all seen movies of servicemen and woman returning to ticker tape parades and cheers. We come home with that picture in our mind, to jeers. I think in some cases, after some sobriety, learning what drove us to drink, is like learning our triggers. There is a big difference in blaming them and learning them for prevention. I'm sorry the others didn't make it but, I'm glad you did. Don W

Dunitall

Hi Don W

I can truly empathise with your feelings on this. You seem to be making great progress with your feelings and reactions. It sounds like you really believe in this recovery programme and workingit hard for yourself. That is so good.

There were a couple of points in particular which you made that I picked up on:





This is a really big moral issue for me and I think I have struggled with it for a long time. Going back over events and validating my own views based on my experience, rather than being blinded by the subjective views of others is helping.

Again I have struggled to use this positively in the past. Unlike the 12 step programme which is about putting the cork in the bottle and keeping it there, tapping in to memories and feelings is like uncorking a bottle and being afraid that I can't get the cork back in. I also think that falsely controlling my own emotions and living behind a mask has led me to exhibit controlling behaviours with others. That sucks.

Thankfully now with all the support I have from people like you here, AA and counselling I am at last making big steps in my recovery. For this I am so grateful.

thanks again for your excellent insight Don.

All the best.

Rich

Don W

Thanks Rich, I talked more about it with my Veterns counselor. She said it is common to feel the way we do. This is especially true with unpopular actions. She even helped me with the feeling of envy of those that didn't make it. This also became true after the first Gulf War she said. Many Vietnam Veterans, although proud of them, were jealous of the yellow ribbons and the cheering crowds Gulf Veterans returned to. I guess I understand a little now. At least, I don't feel the shame of being jealous. I can guess that your return from Northern Ireland was a close situation to that of which I speak. I also get so much perspective from your posts. I like some of your terminology It reminds me of talking to the British Sailors in the different ports. And of course one of our favorite shows, " Keeping Up Appearances". It has been a long hard week at work. Heading home for the weekend. Good Luck and God Bless you all, for God has blessed me with all of you. Don W