'White knuckle sobriety'?
Redmayne
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester, England, UK.
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'White knuckle sobriety'?
I'm always puzzled by those who practice what is known as 'white knuckle sobriety', to effect their recovery from alcoholism.
Which as I understand it takes place where a person suffering from alcoholism, under the description that it's a two fold disease/illness consisting of a physical allergy and a mental obsession, the only respite from which is complete abstinence.
Simply stops drinking, without putting any other form of recovery in their life, and , metaphorically speaking, just clings on to their sobriety to the extent they turn their knuckles white, with the ever present risk that one day. They'll 'lose their grip' and suffer a relapse...from which they may never return...
I raise this question simply on the basis that if recovery where that simple, i.e. just stopping drinking. I know mine certainly wasn't, we'd all be doing it. And were not unless I'm missing something?
Or there's something, someone hasn't told me?
Which as I understand it takes place where a person suffering from alcoholism, under the description that it's a two fold disease/illness consisting of a physical allergy and a mental obsession, the only respite from which is complete abstinence.
Simply stops drinking, without putting any other form of recovery in their life, and , metaphorically speaking, just clings on to their sobriety to the extent they turn their knuckles white, with the ever present risk that one day. They'll 'lose their grip' and suffer a relapse...from which they may never return...
I raise this question simply on the basis that if recovery where that simple, i.e. just stopping drinking. I know mine certainly wasn't, we'd all be doing it. And were not unless I'm missing something?
Or there's something, someone hasn't told me?
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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Redmayne, my experience is that the term ‘White Knuckle Sobriety’ has historically, derogatory, demeaning connotations. How can anyone judge someone else’s sobriety, whether depth, satisfaction, or quality thereof? Why attempt to stand in judgment of someone else’s sobriety by using that phrase?
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My understanding is that "dry drunk" is a derogatory term, "white knuckling" it can apply to many things and I personally don't see it as derogatory at all? But that's just me!
I also didn't take Redmayne's second point to imply that even just quitting drinking (without seeking recovery) is "easy". Certainly don't mean to speak for you Redmayne and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting here.
What he said was if "recovery" were that simple - not that white knuckling it is simple (I'm sure it's hell).
ie: white knuckling and recovery are two separate things.
Anyway Redmayne, I'm not an alcoholic but I do see your point, perhaps just part of why it's so baffling.
I also didn't take Redmayne's second point to imply that even just quitting drinking (without seeking recovery) is "easy". Certainly don't mean to speak for you Redmayne and please correct me if I'm misinterpreting here.
that if recovery where that simple, i.e. just stopping drinking. I know mine certainly wasn't, we'd all be doing it
ie: white knuckling and recovery are two separate things.
Anyway Redmayne, I'm not an alcoholic but I do see your point, perhaps just part of why it's so baffling.
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Hi Trailmix, as someone who suffered from Alcohol Use Disorder, ‘White Knuckling Sobriety’ implies that someone’s ‘only’ stopped drinking on their own, a ‘lesser’ sobriety, because they have failed to follow AA program. It is a derogatory term to me.
Redmayne
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Location: Manchester, England, UK.
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'Live and let live'
'Live and let live', right, thank you to all who've contributed thus far. I wasn't suggesting anything derogatory or saying that one method of recovery is better than another, but at least being anything other than 'a dry drunk' or using 'white knuckle sobriety' has a method behind it and is built on logic and reason, otherwise what's the point?
'Anything that contradicts logic and reason should be abandoned,' a Buddhist saying.
'Anything that contradicts logic and reason should be abandoned,' a Buddhist saying.
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Originally Posted by Redmayne 
'but at least being anything other than 'a dry drunk' or using 'white knuckle sobriety' has a method behind it and is built on logic and reason, otherwise what's the point?
'Anything that contradicts logic and reason should be abandoned,' a Buddhist saying.
'Anything that contradicts logic and reason should be abandoned,' a Buddhist saying.
Redmayne
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Location: Manchester, England, UK.
Posts: 1,543
The way I see it..
The way I see it, they are one and the same, the expressions 'dry drunk' and 'white knuckle sobriety' are just figurative expressions that shouldn't be taken to literally...
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Originally Posted by Redmayne
The way I see it, they are one and the same, the expressions 'dry drunk' and 'white knuckle sobriety' are just figurative expressions that shouldn't be taken to literally...
You’ve purposely used these expressions, so they must have a meaning, to you, and I’d be grateful if you’d enlighten me.
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I don’t like “white knuckle” or “dry drunk”. Why? Because only someone else would say that about someone who has stopped drinking. The person who stopped drinking doesn’t say “I’m a dry drunk” or “I’m white knuckling it”. And, I don’t think it is anyone’s right to comment whatsoever on someone else’s sobriety since they are not in their body or brain, so they have no idea what they are talking about. Basically, I think they are both judgemental terms from people who, historically, have used it to praise their own methods of getting sober. I’m not saying that is you, Redmeyer. I’m saying other people have. I don’t believe there is “work” to be done forever. I quit smoking and once I finally rewired my brain I never thought of it again. I was a pack and half or two packs a day. Likewise, I also don’t plan on continually working on my sobriety. I just need to wait out my sober neural pathways as they build up and the alcoholic ones fill up, and I need to never drink again or the time spent sober (time, not work) was wasted. At almost six months, this gets easier and easier by the day. Sure, at moments times it is hard. For instance, a week or so ago I was at my sister’s where I have so many memories drinking. It was weird and difficult to be there and not drink. But...I’m 100% sure it’ll get easy, just as it did with smoking, and just as it has with drinking in places that I have built up sober experiences at. Lots of us (all AVRT folks) don’t believe in continued work forever. I’ve wasted enough time drinking. I don’t need to waste more working on me (at least, not more than I would be even if I’d never had a drinking problem). Everyone (alcoholic or not) is hopefully a work in progress. But I don’t believe I need special steps written by Bill whoever. I believe I need the help of the medical community to help me understand addiction so I can get over it, and I need to continue to work to be the best me. As all humans should do.
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Originally Posted by Sohard
I don’t like “white knuckle” or “dry drunk”. Why? Because only someone else would say that about someone who has stopped drinking. The person who stopped drinking doesn’t say “I’m a dry drunk” or “I’m white knuckling it”.
i acted like a dry drunk when i was on a dry drunk,too- same behvaiors as when i was drinkin.
i was on a dry drunk because i was white knuckling it-i wasnt doing anything for recovery.
a cup is a cup.
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Originally Posted by Sohard
The person who stopped drinking doesn’t say “I’m a dry drunk” or “I’m white knuckling it”.[/left]
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
i was on a dry drunk and not afraid to say it. didnt like it when i was called out on it until the evening about a month later when i came dam close to pickin up a 12 pack of resentment.
i acted like a dry drunk when i was on a dry drunk,too- same behvaiors as when i was drinkin.
i was on a dry drunk because i was white knuckling it-i wasnt doing anything for recovery.
a cup is a cup.
i acted like a dry drunk when i was on a dry drunk,too- same behvaiors as when i was drinkin.
i was on a dry drunk because i was white knuckling it-i wasnt doing anything for recovery.
a cup is a cup.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
i was on a dry drunk and not afraid to say it. didnt like it when i was called out on it until the evening about a month later when i came dam close to pickin up a 12 pack of resentment.
i acted like a dry drunk when i was on a dry drunk,too- same behvaiors as when i was drinkin.
i was on a dry drunk because i was white knuckling it-i wasnt doing anything for recovery.
a cup is a cup.
i acted like a dry drunk when i was on a dry drunk,too- same behvaiors as when i was drinkin.
i was on a dry drunk because i was white knuckling it-i wasnt doing anything for recovery.
a cup is a cup.
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Originally Posted by Sohard
what do you mean you were “called out on it”? Didn’t you just write that you’d already been “a dry drunk and not afraid to say it”? So how could you be called out on what you’d already stated? That’s my point: I don’t believe you actually had called yourself a dry drunk back then. I do believe you when you say others did and “called you out on it”, as you say. And clearly you look back now and call the old you now “a dry drunk”. But, in current time, I don’t believe anyone calls themselves a dry drunk. If you are reading this and you do currently call yourself that, please tell me I am wrong.
no i dont currently call myself that. dont know what that matters.
didja search the forum for the terms? quite a few people here alone have called themselves a dry drunk.
ya dont like the term thats ok. but to say no one calls themselves that without investigating if anyone really has called themselves a dry drunk or that theyre white knuckling it...........
thats my truth
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Originally Posted by Dee74
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
i called myself a dry drunk back then. yup- i was called out on it and didnt believe it. but once i saw it i called myself a dry drunk back then in that current time.
no i dont currently call myself that. dont know what that matters.
didja search the forum for the terms? quite a few people here alone have called themselves a dry drunk.
ya dont like the term thats ok. but to say no one calls themselves that without investigating if anyone really has called themselves a dry drunk or that theyre white knuckling it...........
thats my truth
no i dont currently call myself that. dont know what that matters.
didja search the forum for the terms? quite a few people here alone have called themselves a dry drunk.
ya dont like the term thats ok. but to say no one calls themselves that without investigating if anyone really has called themselves a dry drunk or that theyre white knuckling it...........
thats my truth
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Before I read thru this thread, I was going to reply that the first few months of my sobriety I was 'white-knuckling' it. Hanging on for dear life by my fingertips. Then I was advised to start practicing gratitude every day. At first it was hard, but I did it until it became a habit.
And it really changed my life for the better.
But yeah, I was white-knuckling it for a while and I wasn't feeling too wonderful about my sobriety. Now my sobriety is right up there with breathing - it's necessary for me in order to enjoy my life.
And it really changed my life for the better.
But yeah, I was white-knuckling it for a while and I wasn't feeling too wonderful about my sobriety. Now my sobriety is right up there with breathing - it's necessary for me in order to enjoy my life.
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Originally Posted by least
Before I read thru this thread, I was going to reply that the first few months of my sobriety I was 'white-knuckling' it. Hanging on for dear life by my fingertips. Then I was advised to start practicing gratitude every day. At first it was hard, but I did it until it became a habit.
And it really changed my life for the better.
But yeah, I was white-knuckling it for a while and I wasn't feeling too wonderful about my sobriety. Now my sobriety is right up there with breathing - it's necessary for me in order to enjoy my life.
And it really changed my life for the better.
But yeah, I was white-knuckling it for a while and I wasn't feeling too wonderful about my sobriety. Now my sobriety is right up there with breathing - it's necessary for me in order to enjoy my life.
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