zerothehero

I posted the following paragraphs in the Newcomers section, but perhaps those who have been in recovery for awhile will relate more. Sometimes I feel like I'm going in circles rather than really progressing:

Over a year of sobriety, mindfulness, and meditation has led to a discovery. First of all, I'm an addict. Alcohol is just one of my addictions. Secondly, I've realized that my addictive behaviors are always (I'm pretty sure always) triggered by a dull or obvious perception that I don't like how I'm feeling (this can range from powerful emotions to simple lethargy).

At one time it led to alcohol and other drugs, but sugar, carbs, caffeine, sex...these addictions persist. It's not so much that I'm addicted to any particular substance or activity, but rather, I habitually seek ways to feel differently than I often feel. Recently, medications have been a challenge because they make me sluggish, and when I'm sluggish I look for a lift (usually caffeine or simple carbs). The problem is the lift is temporary and when I crash I crave yet again. Not healthy.

Here's the thing, though. When I meditate regularly, even just ten or twenty minutes a day, I feel more aware, more balanced, more accepting, and more able to make healthy choices. Meditating in the morning carries the mindfulness mindset throughout the day. For the past year I have found that if I neglect to meditate for a week or so I find myself slipping into old patterns. Meditation helps me feel better. Without it I look for alternatives.

My goal is to get off all medications by the end of July. This may mean another surgery, but if I can live med-free after that it seems worth the risk. Until then, I am addicted to meditation because without meditation I don't like how I feel. Meditation helps me accept how I feel without reaching for sugar or caffeine or my junk (though my doctor has recommended orgasm at least every other day, and I don't always get help with this if you know what I mean).

Addicted to meditation. There are worse things.

Boleo

Me to. So what's wrong with that. As far as I am concerned, meditation is a solution - not a problem. Aside from it taking up a fairly small part of my day, I don't see any down-side to it.

zerothehero

I agree. It just seems odd that I seem so dependent on it. Last spring when I was about four months sober I stopped meditating for a couple of weeks after several months of meditating regularly and spun into emotional turmoil. I got away from it again a year later and not so much turmoil as just recognizing cravings I don't have when I meditate. Maybe I'm over-thinking it. I think the meds I'm on are a big part of it. One of the side effects is rapid weight gain. I think it makes me crave carbs. I'm seeing the doc again in about ten days. They're not psych meds, but they make me fuzzy.

silentrun

LOL I don't think there is anything intrinsically bad with someone trying to change how they feel. Taking a walk, talking to a friend, doing something for someone we love, watching a movie and listening to some great music all change how we feel. Meditation seems like it would fit in with those healthy ways.
I asked to be put back on celexa even though it makes me gain weight. Sometimes it is worth it. On the bright side it seems to kill the libido so that has freed up some time. I don't think the carbs or sugar cravings are all that uncommon for people who have quit drinking. I can't seem to regulate my sugar intake just like I couldn't regulate how much booze I drank. When I eat sugar I also overeat generally. When I leave the sugar alone my body seems to balance out .
Masturbation: the health benefits - Love & Sex - Life and Style - The Independent

Redmayne

Personally, I've always taken the view, that both recovery and sobriety are an individual responsibility. Which allows the individual to choose their own path or program of recovery, attaching and detaching from those things, physically, mentally and spiritually, those things that work for them to ensure they add to and strengthen their progress. Both in recovery and life itself... from it those things that work for them...based on the ideas of,

1. Rely on yourself.

2. Anything, including anyone, who contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned.

Both these sayings taken from Buddhists text, the philosophy and practice of which, leans heavily towards meditation....

Boleo

"Buddhism stands unique in history in the sense of human thought in denying the existence of such a soul , self, or Atman. According to the teaching of Buddha, the idea of self is imaginary, false belief which has no corresponding reality, and is produces harmful thoughts of "me" and "mine", selfish desires , craving, attachment, hatred, ill-will, conceit, pride, egoism and other defilements, impurities and problems."
(Walpola Rahula - What the Budda Taught)

"Anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned. However, if something contradicts logic but not experience, we should rely on experience rather than logic when such experience also corresponds to what the wise have to say."
(Kalama Sutta)

Both these CORRECTED sayings taken from ACTUAL Buddhists text.

:

Redmayne

Why post a thread titled 'Addiction to meditation - not recovery' on a forum titled 'What is recovery?'

When, applying cognitive (truth and reason) thinking, it's obviously a contradiction, not only in terms but of logic and experience. Which any sane, rational person, knows should be abandoned...

It offers, certainly, to those in recovery, nothing...and could hinder the very thing they're aiming for, undermining the title of the forum.

Aellyce

Well, many people are dependent on things like exercise or their hobbies to help them feel good and balanced. I would not be happy and content without doing the things I enjoy in my life. Do you just sit around all day doing little else? If there is no negative associated with your meditation, why to worry about it? If you do worry, change your routine around a bit. I think that trying to change how we feel if it's negative is a good and healing thing rather than not doing anything just suffering. You have been through so much since you got sober and you have found a way to ground yourself that works well -- I would not question it.

zerothehero

Thanks, Haennie. I think it's the dependence itself that makes me wonder. I feel kind of stalled out. Granted, the main point of Buddhism and meditation is the reduction of suffering, and that's really why I meditate. It's healthier than drinking, anyway. I am way better off than I was a year ago but I've kind of plateaued. Patience, I guess.

And for Redmayne and Boleo, one of the things I admire about the Dalai Lama is that he recognizes that Buddhist philosophies (plural) vary and ought not be dogmatic. He says, for example, if science demonstrates that a long-held Buddhist belief is incorrect, well, we should reexamine that belief and probably reject it. It's also worth noting that we're discussing translations, as well, which do not always convey the exact original intent. Thus, you're both correct and yet not exactly correct.

And Redmayne, I'm not quite sure where your last comments about "undermining the title of the forum" are coming from, but I believe I was perhaps misunderstood. This seems the appropriate place for the discussion because I was questioning whether dependence upon anything, even meditation, could interfere with recovery. This goes to the heart of the question, "What is Recovery?" I could argue that your tone could do more to "hinder the very thing they're aiming for" than any lack of sane or rational statements or questions on my part. Besides, others' recovery is not my responsibility. Did you not say that "both recovery and sobriety are an individual responsibility"? If I triggered you, I apologize, but honestly, I don't think we're communicating clearly.

Redmayne

Myself, accepting that others are free to choose their own path or program of recovery, I'm a firm believer in the suggested 12 Step program of recovery as offered in the books 'Alcoholics Anonymous and the '12 x 12'...

Which in Step 11 says,'Sought through prayer and MEDITATION to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry it out.'

In the resume of which it mentions that, meditation has no boundaries. Providing the opportunity for an individual adventure, the first result of which being emotional balance. Finishing with the rewards of prayer and meditation.

Nowhere does it, or in anything else I've read on the subject of meditation, which is widely known to provide great benefits to individual practitioners, does it mention addiction to its practice...

So, if , in recovery, it works for you, fine, no problem...but you still haven't answered my question in credible terms which assist others as well as yourself...

Which as I've always understood it is the main purpose of this site..more about the community than individuals pursuing their own, often self absorbed, agendas.

zerothehero

For what it's worth, I've posted many times for the sole purpose of providing information I hoped would benefit others, and I still don't understand your comments about derailing and hindering. Again, you come across as accusatory and even insulting (terms such as "self absorbed," for example). I don't see how this benefits anyone. Perhaps we butt heads because I call you out while neglecting to stroke you ego. Most of my interactions on SR are positive, but it seems we rub each other the wrong way.

I started this thread (and perhaps I didn't make myself clear) from a sense that I am not particularly emotionally balanced when I fail to meditate regularly. I wondered if anyone could relate. I didn't expect insults and accusations.

You say you are a "believer" in A.A. I lack that faith. Perhaps I would be better off if I shared your faith, but I don't.

totfit

Meditation does not need to be a "seperate" part of life, but can be incorporated in everything. It can be a way of living. Awareness, is a form of mediation where one fully experiences the moment. Life is just a series of these moments. By being fully "aware" we are better able to act on needs and not impulses.

zerothehero

Living mindfully is my primary motivation for sobriety. That and having a beating heart.

BackToSquareOne

The thing with meditation is that the cool states of mind you can reach are fleeting, I think that my mind is more at peace overall but I still havn't reached nirvana. In Buddhism Nirvana is often used to mean the end of seeking, like blowing out a candle. I wonder if its even possible for a human to ever get close to that state. I think my Nirvana must be on backorder or something I'm still waiting for it to arrive. Anyhow here's an interesting series on Buddhism, meditation and all of that : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOEXkaow0ko

Redmayne

I take the Dalai Lama's advice that the best form of meditation is sleep. As they say in A A,'Keep it simple' right! If it works for you, don't knock it.

Thanks to everyone for this wonderful, inspiring and motivational post. One of the best I've ever read, which leaves me in doubt as to whether or not I'll ever write on here again. I'm in a state of shock and awe ...

Joe Nerv

Curious why you choose the term "addicted" regarding your meditation practices? 10-20 minutes a day, even an hour a day, to something I found beneficial to my health and well being I'd hardly consider addictive.

If it's the dependence part that qualifying the definition, then I could just as easily say I'm addicted to food, water, sleep, work, and a whole bunch of other things.

As alcoholics I think we like to beat on ourselves, and give even the good things in our lives negative twists. At least I do that, and it's a habit I'm finally beginning to grow out of.

People spend hours a day on facebook, forums, in front of a TV, playing video games, stuffing their faces with crap, surfing the internet, diving into porn... to have the discipline to meditate instead, exercise, go to a meeting, cook, or do anything that benefits us in a positive way without interfering in other areas of our lives, I think is an awesome thing. I wouldn't call it dependence, nor addiction. I'd call it a really good habit.

That being said, I want to commit to meditating more regularly. You give a great sales pitch .

Redmayne

An observation about something that puzzled me to...thanks

zerothehero

My aim is to reduce suffering; my own and through that those who live and work with me. I'm not going to kid myself and believe I'll ever reach a state of nirvana.

And yes, Buddhist philosophy helps. Meditation helps. Without it I backslide. I'm dependent on it. That's all I'm saying.

I guess a broader question would be to ask whether dependence on anything (other than basic needs) is recovery, or is it more a form of maintenance? Medications that help an individual maintain, for example, but do nothing to cure. Is that not dependence rather than recovery?

Or, is it that we are wired to be addicted to something, so if we have to be addicts we might as well be addicted to something healthy.

I mean, what does it mean to recover or be in recovery? A Buddhist might say recovery is an absence of want. That, though, would be recovering from much more than just addiction.

Redmayne

Nothing wrong with that, good for you....as a Joe McQuany said,'The greatest gift in life may not be life itself but the knowledge of how to live life itself.' Good enough for me and you,by the sounds of it.

Boleo

I am one of those who does know what it means to "recover" from alcohol addiction. I found a new way of living that lead to a new way of thinking, that is 100% liberated from all thoughts of using drugs or alcohol.

However, deep down inside, I intuitively know that it is not a one-and-done event. I must now keep moving forward living the spiritual path that I have started on. Meditation is one of the new tools that I use to grow and maintain that new life style.

Call it a substitute addiction if you want, I call it a small price to pay for total emancipation from a life threatening, unhealthy craving. A "Healthy" life simply requires a few sacrifices. That's a great, terrific, fabulous deal as far as I'm concerned.