Refuge Recovery
I myself like to call it "Universal Consciousness" or Jungian "Collective Unconscious". Or better yet - The Tao.
"The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao."
(Laozi - Tao Te Ching)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
I pulled some of my post on the other thread and brought it over here. The threads are similar, yet different.
I've read a lot of the Dharma Punx Nation stuff, and it was the Buddhist path that I began to follow when I quit 8 years ago. I found the practice of sitting with discomfort very similar in nature to the seeing the AV and watching it as an observer- not acting on it-not interacting with it. I see addiction/craving/use of substances intertwined in the five hinderances.
Yes, and while reaching a level of higher consciousness is considered mystical, I also think sometimes confusion comes in with how the terms are interpreted and commonly used (albeit incorrectly). Unearthly and/or mystical does not necessarily equal deity and/or supernatural-ish stuff.
I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.
I've read a lot of the Dharma Punx Nation stuff, and it was the Buddhist path that I began to follow when I quit 8 years ago. I found the practice of sitting with discomfort very similar in nature to the seeing the AV and watching it as an observer- not acting on it-not interacting with it. I see addiction/craving/use of substances intertwined in the five hinderances.
"The Buddha says that all the hindrances arise through unwise consideration (ayoniso manasikara) and that they can be eliminated by wise consideration (yoniso manasikara). Each hindrance, however, has its own specific antidote. Thus wise consideration of the repulsive feature of things is the antidote to sensual desire; wise consideration of loving-kindness counteracts ill will; wise consideration of the elements of effort, exertion and striving opposes sloth and torpor; wise consideration of tranquillity of mind removes restlessness and worry; and wise consideration of the real qualities of things eliminates doubt." (S.v,105-106).
Originally Posted by Boleo
Belief in "Buddha Nature" or "Original Self" is still a belief in something unearthly or mystical.
I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.
Yes, and while reaching a level of higher consciousness is considered mystical, I also think sometimes confusion comes in with how the terms are interpreted and commonly used (albeit incorrectly). Unearthly and/or mystical does not necessarily equal deity and/or supernatural-ish stuff.
I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.
I haven't read Refuge Recovery, but I ordered it today so that I can effectively discuss. Looking forward to ya'lls thoughts on it.
I am also open to the idea that what's really going on is the building of new neural paths by detaching (aka dissociating) from old neural paths and reattaching to new neural paths. So science may one day say it is really just a form of evolution of the mind or a rewiring of our neural network.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I completed my PhD at this University community on the verge of 2000 (2002)
Bluebrain | EPFL
So, what do "spiritual" or "secular" mean? I think almost any personal belief can be expressed as spiritual, and also almost any traditionally spiritual ideas can have more "down-to-earth" versions. Just think about the practical HP interpretations many have (the "door knob" etc).
I agree with you in that when we choose to explore these things, whatever they are, it's usually driven by personal interest and belief. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I don't even think we must choose between things such as secular or non-secular, or even spiritual. What advantage would such a choice bring us when we live our lives and "write" our philosophies here and now?
Bluebrain | EPFL
So, what do "spiritual" or "secular" mean? I think almost any personal belief can be expressed as spiritual, and also almost any traditionally spiritual ideas can have more "down-to-earth" versions. Just think about the practical HP interpretations many have (the "door knob" etc).
I agree with you in that when we choose to explore these things, whatever they are, it's usually driven by personal interest and belief. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I don't even think we must choose between things such as secular or non-secular, or even spiritual. What advantage would such a choice bring us when we live our lives and "write" our philosophies here and now?
I completed my PhD at this University community on the verge of 2000 (2002)
Bluebrain | EPFL
Bluebrain | EPFL
My theory is that spiritual awakenings, and enlightenment in general, are simply building new neural networks via new actions (Karma) and intentions (Dharma).
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by haennie
So, what do "spiritual" or "secular" mean?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
To answer your question (in bold), I think it's entirely compatible with the current knowledge, which also has vast experimental validation now. Look up "neuroplasticity" if you are not yet familiar. I actually work on that myself, and our addiction-related studies keep leading back to mechanisms of neuroplasticity in almost every way we try to investigate it. In this context, what happens when we (gradually) become addicted is that new neural connections and paths are generated in our brains. And then we reinforced them with continued drinking/drugging. They get very ingrained, why it's so hard to break it and change it when we try to get sober, and why so often the attempts fail (relapses).
In recovery, just the same happens. We "remodel" our neural circuits and mechanisms with the hard and consistent work we put into it. I think the reason why it's so hard, especially in the beginning, is exactly because we need to change those neural networks, go against what's already there, and keep reinforcing it with both cognitive decisions/processes and continued actions. These do change our brain processes in many ways, much like environmental influences do (another "hot" area of research these days).
If you are interested in the point of view of a very prominent figure in biology, I love this interview with Francis Crick, who is best known for his participation in the discovery of DNA. But he had many other interests as well. I always relate to his personal evolution and curiosities a lot, maybe you, Boleo, would, too. It's just a different era for us, but so much similarity can be perceived in personal orientation.
A Visit With Dr. Francis Crick
Don't know if you have it, but "Buddha" by Karen Armstrong is a great book that covers just the history and life of Guatama. A very academic look at his life minus any theological agenda.
Checked out their website and the nearest meeting to the south Florida area is in Tallahassee, a 10 hour drive. C'mon Buddhists!! Migrate south already!
Checked out their website and the nearest meeting to the south Florida area is in Tallahassee, a 10 hour drive. C'mon Buddhists!! Migrate south already!
What the Buddha Taught: Revised and Expanded Edition with Texts from Suttas and Dhammapada
Author: Walpola Rahula
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching: Transforming Suffering into Peace, Joy, and Liberation.
Author: Thich Nhat Hanh
Seeing as you are involved in Neuroscience and algorithms for Brain Reconstruction, what is your take on the human ability to build/develop/evolve new Neural pathways in the brain?
My theory is that spiritual awakenings, and enlightenment in general, are simply building new neural networks via new actions (Karma) and intentions (Dharma).
My theory is that spiritual awakenings, and enlightenment in general, are simply building new neural networks via new actions (Karma) and intentions (Dharma).
In AA s early days the time factor was a component in AA recovery which medical science could not explain. Doctors of the time said what takes in AA a few weeks or months, should take years of therapy. The unexplainable element was the speed at which it works.
Back in them days, the program was worked very quickly and spiritual experiences were quite common. It seems to me that if one went through all those steps honestly and without reservation in the first few days of sobriety, it would likely have a much bigger effect than taking months or years over them. The slow path could be likened to breaking up your favourite ball game into ten minute segments spread over a few weeks. The game would lose all its emotional appeal.
The speed of AA seems to have been key in the early AA miracle. Has medicine advanced to the extent that it can work just as quickly, or has AA slowed down?
The speed of AA seems to have been key in the early AA miracle. Has medicine advanced to the extent that it can work just as quickly, or has AA slowed down?
While I don't believe that they can be taught directly, what I do see is where they can be awakened with guidance and some sort of algorithm such as the eightfold path or 12 steps.
"The path of Refuge Recovery begins with the First Truth: addiction creates suffering. This is not a philosophy. It is a practice; it demands action. "
(Refuge Recovery page 4)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Boleo, in the meetings, do they discuss this text specifically? Do they talk about any of Levine's other books, or do they reference any other writings on Buddhism? I would like to attend a meeting, but like Bmac, I'm in South Florida and the only meeting is in Tallahassee...about a 5 hour drive. I read there are online meetings. Anyone familiar with these?
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by gottalife
Back in them days, the program was worked very quickly
Soberlicious, I just attended the women's online meeting yesterday morning and liked it a lot. There's a reading from one of Levine's books, and then a discussion. The people were very welcoming and I felt comfortable sharing. One thing I really like about it is that you don't have to define yourself as an addict and the conversation did not focus on drugs or alcohol. We talked about behaviors and ways of thinking that can be altered by applying and practicing the tenets of Buddhism. I hope you give it a try.
Interesting stuff. I am a firm believer in the more tricks we have in our bag the less likely we are to drink.
Keep us informed but if you start wearing a loin cloth you may want to back off ..... just kidding but I am serious about the keeping us informed
Keep us informed but if you start wearing a loin cloth you may want to back off ..... just kidding but I am serious about the keeping us informed
I attended the meeting yesterday and I liked it. It was a small meeting and it started with a meditation. Then someone read from Levine's book and shared how what he read applied to him then tagged me (it was a tag meeting).
The meeting was definitely solution and spiritually oriented (no drunkologue there) and the atmosphere was very come and positive.
Suggested donation was 5 dollars. I wanted to purchase the book but they did not have it so someone loaned me his book. I plan to read it over the next few days and return it to him next Wednesday when I go back.
I liked the fact that it brings together what I learned at my Zen classes with recovery and the people were really nice.
The one down thing I could see is that I really doubt that someone who is low bottom and/or straight from the streets and still drinking/using would be able to connect and relate to what was read and what was shared. I feel that this is more for people who are already on their sober journey or people in active addiction who still have choices.
Anyway, I m striving at being more mindful and spiritual this year. I think that this is just what I need right now and would encourage people on this thread to check it out.
The meeting was definitely solution and spiritually oriented (no drunkologue there) and the atmosphere was very come and positive.
Suggested donation was 5 dollars. I wanted to purchase the book but they did not have it so someone loaned me his book. I plan to read it over the next few days and return it to him next Wednesday when I go back.
I liked the fact that it brings together what I learned at my Zen classes with recovery and the people were really nice.
The one down thing I could see is that I really doubt that someone who is low bottom and/or straight from the streets and still drinking/using would be able to connect and relate to what was read and what was shared. I feel that this is more for people who are already on their sober journey or people in active addiction who still have choices.
Anyway, I m striving at being more mindful and spiritual this year. I think that this is just what I need right now and would encourage people on this thread to check it out.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)