awuh1

This is the way the term 'alcoholic' is generally used outside of the recovery community, but not typically within that community. Neither is the term pejorative within this community. I think it holds the connotation for you because you are new to these parts.

If the brain is no different physically or chemically then why can't alcoholics (or former alcoholics as you prefer to call them) drink 'normally'? If there is no physiological change what so ever, why the continued inability to drink "normally"? If you look at this a little more carefully you will find that there are in fact physiological differences in the way alcoholics process alcohol. These abnormalities do not change as a result of long periods of abstinence. They are a marker for the continued existence of an illness, albeit one that is in remission.

anattaboy

The whole alcoholic = diabetes thing is rather ignorant. Type 1 diabetics do not get a remission, nor was their auto-immune disorder caused by anything they did. Read a book or two (or just google it). Not uncommon though. I'm having to educate my daughter's nurse at her middle school as we speak (thinking of giving her the "pink panther" book that my daughter read when she was 5) as she made some serious errors last week that had us in the emergency room.

freshstart57

Jeffrey, I'm with you on this, for the small consolation you might find in my support. My sobriety is based in part on the conviction that I am no longer an alcoholic, no longer attracted to alcohol, no longer dependent on it. No longer obsessed with it, if you prefer. Alcoholics relapse all the time according to the popular and common understanding. At best, they are sober for today, because who knows what tomorrow may bring them? That doesn't describe me in the least way.

I don't see this fear of relapse as a sobriety motivator, for me anyway, it would be an unwillingness to decide to quit forever. And I am cured of my addiction, as I am no longer dependent on the substance. That's what the word means. I have been dependent on other stuff too (there's a list), and I have chosen to never touch them again either. I know that if I were ever to take another cigarette, or a joint, or a snort or a pill, I would likely snap back into old behaviors. But I don't consider myself a smoker in remission, or a pot head or junkie who is only straight for today because I just might try em again.

I am not afraid of a relapse, because I am not afraid of things that for me don't and cannot ever exist. I will never drink again for a lot of reasons, but the foremost reason for me is that I said so.

We can define communities in special ways, it would seem, just as we can alter the meaning of words to support that community. If that is the case, include me out.

Have at it, andante, and fill yer boots. My alcoholism doesn't work that way. In fact, it is over, gone, finito, forever - no matter what happens to me. No vigilance required. No ethereal state of mind or soul is required, no spiritual relationship forms a condition. And that's a good thing, because I have more funner things to do than be fearful and wary of a possibility that for me doesn't exist. Being a good boy or a bad boy is irrelevant for me as far as the certainty of knowing what I will always do regarding alcohol.

Jeffery, you can stop being a recovering alcoholic anytime you choose. You can be fully recovered from your past state. All you have to do to make it so is to say so. I will never drink again, no matter what. Great, huh?

Boleo

Sounds like something I would have said if I had quit 10 - 15 years earlier.

freshstart57

I guess we will never know for sure now, will we?

awuh1

Amazing how wrong others can be when they interpret what others mean by "sober for today". This apparently extends to actively presuming to know the emotion associated with this idea. Amazing, but even more amusing.

Boleo

Some share their experience and some share their opinions.

Time will tell who is who.

Redmayne

Taking an overview to the responses to this thread thus far, two of associated with communication over the internet are that you don't see or hear, body language, facial expressions or voice inflection together with the fact it provides a high degree of 'power without responsibility' allowing the same degree of abuse in other than responsible participants.

Pus the fact, although I'd like to think, given the serious and fatal outcome for those who fail to effect recovery from alcoholism that neither it nor they play any part of SR. That, as a general observation, it's widely known that the internet, which of course by its very nature includes this and similar site, is inhabited by 'creeps, charlatans and predators'.

Which suggests, as any reputable psychologist would agree, the answer always lies in yourself.

It's no bad thing to follow the suggestion that you should rely on yourself and anything that contradicts logic and experience should be abandoned.

Just a thoughtful observation...

Boleo

That's why I like to focus on only the most reliable way to stay sober. Everything else is dangerous for a alcoholic like me who can not afford even one more relapse. I am in a life and death situation where walking a tightrope ODAAT is simply delusional.

I ain't interested in second rate recovery. I ain't interested in pretty good recovery. I ain't interested in psychological tips&tricks, that work just good enough in the short run, to give people the illusion of recovery.

"Faith without works is dead". Faith without results is deadly for an alcoholic of my type.

:

Redmayne

A timely, self explanatory intervention. Which needs no comment from me or anyone else, other than like minded souls. Can't wait....

MesaMan

As I made Pals around the World in High Tech, we'd let our Hair down and discuss significant 'stuff'. This was part of the Int'l fun for this Ham Radio Geek, who was talking to the World via Morse Code Key by age 12. Forum-style exchange goes back ~50 years for me.

A Japanese Pal I trained made an impassioned Case for Japan harvesting Whales. An old and dear Cultural Practice. They liked the taste [I never tried it]. Most importantly, he hit me right between the Eyes with the POV that the surrounding Ocean was identical to a Kansas City Feedlot. Whales were their Cattle. I could hardly make a Case for our 'kind' treatment of Cattle within that Industry, knowing what I know from Life in Rural Colorado. More to the point, Objective Analysis goes only so far. The Japanese felt they were 'right' about their Whaling. Screw Cultural 'Invaders' like 'Greenpeace'. Back then, ~130 Million Persons living in an area roughly the size of Montana were doing what they felt they had to do, and had a right to do: harvesting Whales.

The fundamental paradigm shift required for me to integrate this POV vs. the POV of non-Japanese was one of many encounters leading me to accept that firmly-held POVs can differ substantially between those having earnest intentions.

I apply what I learned Int'l to all sorts of Topics, including ones here on SR. My Recovery Method, and my inarguable state of being irreversibly Sober, transcends theoretical Relapses, or 'cautionary' Brain Scan info. As interested as I am in such Research, arcane points around Internal vs. External assessment of Sobriety often remind me of impassioned arguments we'd have back in High School Student Government. Occasional good fun - or else I wouldn't be here - but not a Variable that affects my actual Sobriety. It's a safe bet that about everyone feels similarly passionate.

For me, the ongoing question here - and on other Forums - is: can Folks genuinely accept very fundamental, Good Faith differences on everything from the best Target Shooting Rifle to Global Warming Trend Data to the very personal matter of Recovery Methods. This Dynamic is what interests me. Not so much the actual Recovery Method proper. And, definitely not 'Belly Bumping' on Cherry-picked Quotes that ignore the thematic gist of a sincere Post.

Today is just another great, Sunny day in which I'm gonna get stuff done, and enjoy Life w/o a Snowball's chance of Relapse. Such is the power of the Mind; regardless from where that Resolve is thought to emanate.

-----

Redmayne

As I like people for who they are, not what they are, regardless of their brace, class or gender, including their age or (dis)ability....

That's one of the most open, honest and credible responses I've ever seen on here and is a credit to you, thank you.

anattaboy

MM is a well-oiled Wordsmith as well as a bodacious, badass Beastslayer indeed.

Eddiebuckle

When the state of being sober feels as natural and complete as the state of drinking every day did while I was drinking.

Boleo

Now that's what I call "recovery".

I have recovered the same perspective towards alcohol as I had as a child. Before it even started to look attractive to me.

IMO a Spiritual Awakening is the most natural way to stay sober, the most comfortable way to stay sober and therefor the most reliable way to stay sober.

Redmayne

Your post,'When the state of being sober feels as natural.....' is without doubt the most intelligent, articulate and concise answer to my thread I could hear from anyone, on or off this site, brilliant!

I always admire original thought, and that's one of the best I've heard or read in a long time.

Like all original thought, it's breathtaking in its simplicity, thank you.