When that AV won't shut up...
waking down
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
If you're breaking a pattern that's been going on for a decade or more, anyone is likely to obsess. I keep coming back to this forum for that very reason. Since I can't surround myself with sober people right now, at least I can read others' thoughts and share mine.
I'm doing pretty well. Felt great today, actually. I have a much more positive attitude than I did when I was drinking, and I'm reading all kinds of stuff. I'm going to be really busy pretty soon here with a class I'm taking and two jobs, so posts are likely to become shorter and less frequent. But for now I feel like I need a community I don't have here. Even though it's kind of an abstract experience, I know there are real human beings with real needs and struggles behind every post. Interesting stories, too. I'm glad for your friendship. I guess you can call it that.
I'm doing pretty well. Felt great today, actually. I have a much more positive attitude than I did when I was drinking, and I'm reading all kinds of stuff. I'm going to be really busy pretty soon here with a class I'm taking and two jobs, so posts are likely to become shorter and less frequent. But for now I feel like I need a community I don't have here. Even though it's kind of an abstract experience, I know there are real human beings with real needs and struggles behind every post. Interesting stories, too. I'm glad for your friendship. I guess you can call it that.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I started drinking heavily at ~28… now I am nearly 40, so it’s about a decade yes. I’m a neurobiologist also, so can perfectly see and understand what is happening in my brain while it’s happening… weird, but it is what it is.
Yes I think we can call it friendship (if there is a need to name this type of connection at all) despite of its having been quite fast and specific. Initially, I liked your posts to Sean (trying to kick his coke habit), checked out more of what you wrote, then I could not help but feel a very strong sense of familiarity based on these patterns. Why I decided to have these conversations. I guess this is how good friendships usually develop, and I think this would be even more fun if we could meet in the 3D world (especially given what you expressed about not having many sober friends… this is actually not a problem for me as my drinking was a very private thing and most of my friends are sober and great, highly intelligent people). I just could not resist responding to someone with whom I felt had so similar thought processes and even practical approaches to mine (that is you).
Funny how similarly we do this as well. I’ve also signed up to new classes that will start soon, and I know I’ll be busy with them since I’m very interested in the area. I know I’ll shift away from SR then quite a bit, but I do want to keep coming back, not only because I need the support and company, but also because I can see this as a start of something bigger for me, to hopefully help other addicts in my small 3D world as well. Which is actually quite big, given it is New York City… I feel both excited and afraid of it all, and very intensely!
Yes I think we can call it friendship (if there is a need to name this type of connection at all) despite of its having been quite fast and specific. Initially, I liked your posts to Sean (trying to kick his coke habit), checked out more of what you wrote, then I could not help but feel a very strong sense of familiarity based on these patterns. Why I decided to have these conversations. I guess this is how good friendships usually develop, and I think this would be even more fun if we could meet in the 3D world (especially given what you expressed about not having many sober friends… this is actually not a problem for me as my drinking was a very private thing and most of my friends are sober and great, highly intelligent people). I just could not resist responding to someone with whom I felt had so similar thought processes and even practical approaches to mine (that is you).
Funny how similarly we do this as well. I’ve also signed up to new classes that will start soon, and I know I’ll be busy with them since I’m very interested in the area. I know I’ll shift away from SR then quite a bit, but I do want to keep coming back, not only because I need the support and company, but also because I can see this as a start of something bigger for me, to hopefully help other addicts in my small 3D world as well. Which is actually quite big, given it is New York City… I feel both excited and afraid of it all, and very intensely!
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
It is interesting that we perceive so much common ground, yet I was a humanities major and though I find science interesting, my physicist nephew would call me ignorant of the corporeal world. He's probably right. I definitely live in my head.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I was always a science-oriented person from my early childhood. Why I'm happy I followed this track, I feel it's the most natural thing for me. But I also had many other interests and apparent abilities, eg. pretty heavy on the arts, music especially. And in school one of my major talents seemed to be languages and grammar...
I've always felt quite dual this way, more a science person, but I guess you can sense the "other pole" even through these messages on SR.
I've always felt quite dual this way, more a science person, but I guess you can sense the "other pole" even through these messages on SR.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Something you might find interesting re living in the head. So I’ve always had many interests, but most of them intellectual / mental things. I remember when I was in high school thinking what area to study in college and potentially make a career of, psychology was what came first to mind. But I rejected it back then for practical reasons (there were not many opportunities for a psychologist in my country and I did not think about moving abroad at the time). I liked literature and experimented with writing, but somehow did not feel it was enough to make a career from that. Same for arts in general. These things are definitely important to me, but somehow second nature, now these are my hobbies.
I tended to do good at science subjects in school without much struggle or effort, and everyone around me also suggested that I take that avenue further. Chose biology, because I recognized this fascination with life and living things from my earliest memories as a kid. Stronger than my fascination with the beauty of mathematical formulas and models, or astrophysics (both of these I am very interested in to date and I use a lot of math in my work almost everyday).
So, biology. I’ve had a lot of adventures with it. What area of biology? I choose molecular biology, I liked the abstract in it… Started out in cancer research for grad school… then wanted to get deeper into molecular mechanisms and did stem cell research for a while, biochemistry… But after spending quite a few years on these, I started to perceive something was missing, no longer felt connected to my work, it appeared boring routine and dull… Then it’s a long story how, but finally had the idea I should be in neuroscience. But what specific area of it? The first one I thought of was consciousness studies – won’t go into detail now why I rejected that one. Then tried to be more practical and built on my previous research experience, plus realized more and more that this was really about the desire to do something subjectively important to me, something I would connect with personally… so it ended up being the neurobiology of drug abuse and addiction; it also involves a lot of behavioral studies. Kinda back to square one, to my high school first line interest in psychology, this is just a more “scientific” (=biological) approach that we call neuropsychiatry. The center right now is drug abuse and addiction, but we do a lot of work on the related psych problems such as anxiety, depression, etc. I think this is also serious “living in the head”. In everyone’s head, this time, trying to understand inside out
So with this now I really feel that the loop has closed and I’m in my ideal world, same for living environment, I’ve moved around so much, and quite a few other ways as well. The only thing that is still holding me back from embracing this reality that I’ve built for myself is my own alcohol addiction. I have a pretty good understanding of how it works yet it’s so powerful on me. I still don’t trust myself that this trial with sobriety will stick…
You said you tried this before. So why did you go back to drinking after some sober time? What were the triggers? Was it lack of determination? I feel I should have done this much earlier before I got to this point in my addiction, the cravings are very very hard now. Anyway, it’s now and not years ago, so got to go from here.
Have another good day with work and your interests!
I tended to do good at science subjects in school without much struggle or effort, and everyone around me also suggested that I take that avenue further. Chose biology, because I recognized this fascination with life and living things from my earliest memories as a kid. Stronger than my fascination with the beauty of mathematical formulas and models, or astrophysics (both of these I am very interested in to date and I use a lot of math in my work almost everyday).
So, biology. I’ve had a lot of adventures with it. What area of biology? I choose molecular biology, I liked the abstract in it… Started out in cancer research for grad school… then wanted to get deeper into molecular mechanisms and did stem cell research for a while, biochemistry… But after spending quite a few years on these, I started to perceive something was missing, no longer felt connected to my work, it appeared boring routine and dull… Then it’s a long story how, but finally had the idea I should be in neuroscience. But what specific area of it? The first one I thought of was consciousness studies – won’t go into detail now why I rejected that one. Then tried to be more practical and built on my previous research experience, plus realized more and more that this was really about the desire to do something subjectively important to me, something I would connect with personally… so it ended up being the neurobiology of drug abuse and addiction; it also involves a lot of behavioral studies. Kinda back to square one, to my high school first line interest in psychology, this is just a more “scientific” (=biological) approach that we call neuropsychiatry. The center right now is drug abuse and addiction, but we do a lot of work on the related psych problems such as anxiety, depression, etc. I think this is also serious “living in the head”. In everyone’s head, this time, trying to understand inside out
So with this now I really feel that the loop has closed and I’m in my ideal world, same for living environment, I’ve moved around so much, and quite a few other ways as well. The only thing that is still holding me back from embracing this reality that I’ve built for myself is my own alcohol addiction. I have a pretty good understanding of how it works yet it’s so powerful on me. I still don’t trust myself that this trial with sobriety will stick…
You said you tried this before. So why did you go back to drinking after some sober time? What were the triggers? Was it lack of determination? I feel I should have done this much earlier before I got to this point in my addiction, the cravings are very very hard now. Anyway, it’s now and not years ago, so got to go from here.
Have another good day with work and your interests!
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Will be brief cuz gotta get to work. In the past when I quit, it was usually for a limited time. A break for health reasons. It's not so much triggers, but just a decision that I had taken enough time off. I don't feel that was this time because these past two years my consumption significantly increased, I was angry, focusing largely on life/work situations, and just not in a good place. When I stopped drinking this time I had a rough time with withdrawal and panic attacks, and this had never happened before. A few days into detoxing and I realized this needed to be the last time.
I read a book called "The Universe in a Single Atom" by Dalai Lama. It was about the connection between physics and buddhism. Very interesting. It reminded me of something more in your line - the connection between DNA lineage and Jung's concept of the collective unconscious - the stories and archetypes in our DNA. I've never read anything about this idea, but maybe I'll search. It makes sense to me that the collective unconscious could be seen as biological rather than strictly spiritual.
Good day to you, as well. Hasta luego.
I read a book called "The Universe in a Single Atom" by Dalai Lama. It was about the connection between physics and buddhism. Very interesting. It reminded me of something more in your line - the connection between DNA lineage and Jung's concept of the collective unconscious - the stories and archetypes in our DNA. I've never read anything about this idea, but maybe I'll search. It makes sense to me that the collective unconscious could be seen as biological rather than strictly spiritual.
Good day to you, as well. Hasta luego.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Again, I would recommend Alan Wallace:
B. Alan Wallace
Check out his writings, eg, Hidden dimensions.
He lived as a monk in Tibet for many years, then did degrees in physics, philosophy and religious studies. He’s now doing some fantastic work wordwhile now that has connections with the Dalai Lama and also numerous neuroscientists and psychologists, but struggles a lot with public understanding and acceptance. I did some work with him, too ☺
I found him in the first place ~6 years ago when I was looking for information related to my interests about human nature and the mind. I went to a lucid dreaming course by Stephen LaBerge (highly recommended):
DREAMING AND AWAKENING: Lucid Dreaming, Consciousness, and Dream Yoga
and one of my classmates there, with whom I connected in a very similar way as with you, recommended Wallace to me.
They had a week-long vipassana retreat that I attended, and found one of the best things I’d done in my life, seriously. Was weird because on the first night with the group (we were >100 people there) it was obvious that most of the others did a few or many Buddhist retreats before, and also some with Alan… I was one of the newbies there out of ~5. There were two weird but also very pleasant occurrences on the first day for me.
(1) I chatted with a few or the organizers and classmates causally before he first session started, and everyone was like “wow you are really in the right place and will enjoy him tremendously…
(2) Alan introduced the class as a very advanced one, I just realized it was the sequel to a much more basic class earlier that year, and many of the people there took the basic one. Not me. So, he suggested “tighten your seatbelt, this is not going to be an easy ride”. But when he started to speak and we started the exercises, I was in a sort of shock: I know this… this is how I naturally think… so these things were discovered and taught centuries ago… my goodness… I f…. know this somehow… In the whole week of the retreat I felt as if I was listening to my own mind, while actually learning cool methods to expand it.
Some lines of Buddhism, and more recently a few scientists also, actually teach that consciousness is not merely a function of the human brain (or any brain), but a much broader and larger scale “force” in the universe. Some claim that we mainly “connect” to this force with our brains and use it in our lifetimes, but perhaps the source of it is really not in the brain. So where is it? What is it? This is why I wanted to study consciousness as a neuroscientist, but rejected mainly because I don’t think we will have the appropriate methods, technologies, and even theoretical models in my lifetime to get into this. I might only get frustrated with the inability to access these things. So other kinds of psychiatry-related studies (that are really hot in this era) seemed more practically satisfying.
Francis Crick, the Nobel prize winner who was involved in the discovery of DNA also walked a very similar journey to mine, see this interview if interested. I relate to him in this interview like crazy:
http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/crick.php
B. Alan Wallace
Check out his writings, eg, Hidden dimensions.
He lived as a monk in Tibet for many years, then did degrees in physics, philosophy and religious studies. He’s now doing some fantastic work wordwhile now that has connections with the Dalai Lama and also numerous neuroscientists and psychologists, but struggles a lot with public understanding and acceptance. I did some work with him, too ☺
I found him in the first place ~6 years ago when I was looking for information related to my interests about human nature and the mind. I went to a lucid dreaming course by Stephen LaBerge (highly recommended):
DREAMING AND AWAKENING: Lucid Dreaming, Consciousness, and Dream Yoga
and one of my classmates there, with whom I connected in a very similar way as with you, recommended Wallace to me.
They had a week-long vipassana retreat that I attended, and found one of the best things I’d done in my life, seriously. Was weird because on the first night with the group (we were >100 people there) it was obvious that most of the others did a few or many Buddhist retreats before, and also some with Alan… I was one of the newbies there out of ~5. There were two weird but also very pleasant occurrences on the first day for me.
(1) I chatted with a few or the organizers and classmates causally before he first session started, and everyone was like “wow you are really in the right place and will enjoy him tremendously…
(2) Alan introduced the class as a very advanced one, I just realized it was the sequel to a much more basic class earlier that year, and many of the people there took the basic one. Not me. So, he suggested “tighten your seatbelt, this is not going to be an easy ride”. But when he started to speak and we started the exercises, I was in a sort of shock: I know this… this is how I naturally think… so these things were discovered and taught centuries ago… my goodness… I f…. know this somehow… In the whole week of the retreat I felt as if I was listening to my own mind, while actually learning cool methods to expand it.
Some lines of Buddhism, and more recently a few scientists also, actually teach that consciousness is not merely a function of the human brain (or any brain), but a much broader and larger scale “force” in the universe. Some claim that we mainly “connect” to this force with our brains and use it in our lifetimes, but perhaps the source of it is really not in the brain. So where is it? What is it? This is why I wanted to study consciousness as a neuroscientist, but rejected mainly because I don’t think we will have the appropriate methods, technologies, and even theoretical models in my lifetime to get into this. I might only get frustrated with the inability to access these things. So other kinds of psychiatry-related studies (that are really hot in this era) seemed more practically satisfying.
Francis Crick, the Nobel prize winner who was involved in the discovery of DNA also walked a very similar journey to mine, see this interview if interested. I relate to him in this interview like crazy:
http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEC/CC/crick.php
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
I skimmed parts of the Crick interview, but admit I would need quite some time to absorb it all. I also believe Wallace was referenced in a couple of books I've read that Dalai Lama wrote or cowrote, including one called "Destructive Emotions" with Daniel Goleman, the guy who wrote "Emotional Intelligence." Wallace has been a busy man.
And dang, I would love to go to Hawaii for a week. That's just about the time I decided to take a week off and do a solo retreat. I rented a mountain cabin walking distance from a buddhist temple where I should be able to do some healing and growing. I'm looking forward to that. Total opposite of what I've done in recent years with time off, which is music festivals and lots of noise quite the opposite of mountain serenity, though I believe dance can be a kind of hatha yoga even if you're high (depending on what you're high on).
I'm a neophyte in the realm of science, and I have only a rudimentary grasp on physics, but I would imagine the camp that plays with the idea of a "force" outside the brain grows out of quantum physics. You may find this website and documentary interesting (if it's not too "popular" or dumbed down for you): Quantum Activist - Documentary Film and DVD with Amit Goswami
And dang, I would love to go to Hawaii for a week. That's just about the time I decided to take a week off and do a solo retreat. I rented a mountain cabin walking distance from a buddhist temple where I should be able to do some healing and growing. I'm looking forward to that. Total opposite of what I've done in recent years with time off, which is music festivals and lots of noise quite the opposite of mountain serenity, though I believe dance can be a kind of hatha yoga even if you're high (depending on what you're high on).
I'm a neophyte in the realm of science, and I have only a rudimentary grasp on physics, but I would imagine the camp that plays with the idea of a "force" outside the brain grows out of quantum physics. You may find this website and documentary interesting (if it's not too "popular" or dumbed down for you): Quantum Activist - Documentary Film and DVD with Amit Goswami
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I also tend to alternate my “off” times between the kind of interests/activities I told you about in the last post, and some other very raw crazy physical ones (yes music festivals and other events I won’t post here in public but if you’re interested, just ask in PM).
I actually think it’s great to vary these things! I totally do the switches you’ve described and don’t think there is anything wrong with them. I think we need a colorful palette of experiences and lessons. Me, I’m entering a phase of trying to do do some more crazy physical things after a few years of pretty pure contemplation. But open to anything interesting and useful, as usually
Will look at that website now..
I actually think it’s great to vary these things! I totally do the switches you’ve described and don’t think there is anything wrong with them. I think we need a colorful palette of experiences and lessons. Me, I’m entering a phase of trying to do do some more crazy physical things after a few years of pretty pure contemplation. But open to anything interesting and useful, as usually
Will look at that website now..
waking down
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Never been to Burning Man, but a sculpture I made did. Funny story, actually. I built this shrine out of wood and plastered it with Huichol and aboriginal images from calendars and magazines. We used it for a party where guests were asked to light incense and pay tribute to the deity. It was shaped like a throne, but instead of a cushion it had kind of a bowl filled with sand for the incense sticks. A few months later I put it in the front yard during a yard sale with a price tag that said $666. Failing to see the tag, a couple asked the price. I told him it wasn't really for sale - more of a joke. They asked if they could bring it to Burning Man, and I replied why not. A few weeks later I found the sculpture on my front porch with a photo of it on the sand flats at Burning Man. Didn't know their names. Never saw them again. That must have been 1998. I have since thought about it, but now it has become so huge I'm not convinced I'm interested anymore. 15 years ago would have been the time to go.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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Interesting story. So that guy owns your sculpture now? I would consider a bet of $667 to maybe get it stand in our lab's entrance. We spend ~$300 xxx daily on reagents, so that would not be a huge deal.
Same perception on BM here, was just curious... people often ask me why I don't go saying I seem like perfect BM material and so.
Same perception on BM here, was just curious... people often ask me why I don't go saying I seem like perfect BM material and so.
waking down
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
They returned the sculpture. I remodeled my attic and walled it in some dead space behind studs and sheetrock. Someone would have to bust through the wall or crawl the length of the house in a very attic tight space with lots of insulation. Chances are it has not yet been discovered. I buried it in '98 and sold the house in '99. I filled the "bowl" with dried flowers and left a note written by the alien deity for which the sculpture was created.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
You really are creative! Very cool story. I guess you have lots of creative stories
It's definitely one of the worst effects of addiction that it robs us of creativity, productivity, and connection with the external world!
It's definitely one of the worst effects of addiction that it robs us of creativity, productivity, and connection with the external world!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
This story of yours about the sculpture makes me wonder what it might have represented from your psyche... could you define it for yourself?
You know it's funny for me to think about this... I'm usually the kind of person who want to crawl through all sorts of tight and insulated spaces in order to try to discover the hidden or buried elements. Means, practically speaking (to try and stand up to my standards of clarity): I've put myself into so many trying and challenging situations, projects and explorations, some of these were damaging and destructive on me, but for some reason I don't tend to be afraid or regret them...
Well, if you want to sell a house full of your mental creations buried in the attic, send me a quote. I may not buy it in the end but will probably be interested in a few viewings at least, and will for sure send a report on what I've found
Have a good weekend my newfound SR friend... I'm personally still having a hard time with this sobriety business, I keep free of alcohol but I guess things just have not sunk in yet sufficiently.
You know it's funny for me to think about this... I'm usually the kind of person who want to crawl through all sorts of tight and insulated spaces in order to try to discover the hidden or buried elements. Means, practically speaking (to try and stand up to my standards of clarity
): I've put myself into so many trying and challenging situations, projects and explorations, some of these were damaging and destructive on me, but for some reason I don't tend to be afraid or regret them... Well, if you want to sell a house full of your mental creations buried in the attic, send me a quote. I may not buy it in the end but will probably be interested in a few viewings at least, and will for sure send a report on what I've found
Have a good weekend my newfound SR friend... I'm personally still having a hard time with this sobriety business, I keep free of alcohol but I guess things just have not sunk in yet sufficiently.
waking down
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
I hear you. Last night was rough, but I made it.
Hiding creativity behind walls and in corners and crevices...hmmm...good question. I definitely don't feel I've lived up to my potential. I was inducted to Phi Beta Kappa as an undergrad, and started working on an honors thesis my senior year, but decided hedonism and acid and Grateful Dead were more of a priority. I don't really regret it - it was all very fun - but now that I am middle aged I do feel I squandered some creativity, and maybe had something to offer the world that just got lost in narcissistic pleasure seeking. Instead of taking risks, I also surrendered to practical job seeking. I played it safe when it came to income and money, but I'm not sure I would choose the same field if given another chance. I'm working on that, as well, but it would mean a significant drop in income, at least temporarily if not permanently.
Hiding creativity behind walls and in corners and crevices...hmmm...good question. I definitely don't feel I've lived up to my potential. I was inducted to Phi Beta Kappa as an undergrad, and started working on an honors thesis my senior year, but decided hedonism and acid and Grateful Dead were more of a priority. I don't really regret it - it was all very fun - but now that I am middle aged I do feel I squandered some creativity, and maybe had something to offer the world that just got lost in narcissistic pleasure seeking. Instead of taking risks, I also surrendered to practical job seeking. I played it safe when it came to income and money, but I'm not sure I would choose the same field if given another chance. I'm working on that, as well, but it would mean a significant drop in income, at least temporarily if not permanently.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Same subjective perception here, that I have not lived up to my potential, and this is a feeling that tends to hurt me somehow more than any other shortcomings and mistakes. I was actually told this same thing even back in my early school years, by my teachers. That I apparently have some outstanding abilities but don't like to work hard... well, yeah. I also tended to get into personal relationships with people that criticized me the same way...
I think it's all relative. Well, I had a PhD at 28. Initiated pioneering projects in every single job I've had. Some a bit too challenging, actually... Published some good papers, and skipped writing up others (things I always regret). Seeked out (and took up) challenging positions and turned down some great opportunities out of fear.
The best career shift (or at least what I subjectively consider best for me) was a few years ago, when refused the classic academic route most people in similar positions to me would take, and decided to tweak everything... this is how I've landed in neuroscience. My pay would be much higher if I did not do this shift and just followed the "normal" curriculum. But I'm quite OK, have managed to get enough $ for me even through my pretty unusual "programing" in academia. Even despite of my struggles with alcohol in the recent years. But I know the alcohol blunted all of this a lot > prevented me from realizing the potential, why I think it's best to let go of it now
I think it's all relative. Well, I had a PhD at 28. Initiated pioneering projects in every single job I've had. Some a bit too challenging, actually... Published some good papers, and skipped writing up others (things I always regret). Seeked out (and took up) challenging positions and turned down some great opportunities out of fear.
The best career shift (or at least what I subjectively consider best for me) was a few years ago, when refused the classic academic route most people in similar positions to me would take, and decided to tweak everything... this is how I've landed in neuroscience. My pay would be much higher if I did not do this shift and just followed the "normal" curriculum. But I'm quite OK, have managed to get enough $ for me even through my pretty unusual "programing" in academia. Even despite of my struggles with alcohol in the recent years. But I know the alcohol blunted all of this a lot > prevented me from realizing the potential, why I think it's best to let go of it now
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