Why do people force the disease and 12 steps on everyone else?
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
As you have expressed an appreciation of AA history I wonder if you have seen this quote by Bill Wilson.
“We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady -- a far safer term for us to use.”
I’m curious about your view that the term ‘disease’, and the 12 steps are being “forced”. What exactly does that mean? Are you expected to believe something you don’t wish to believe? Are you being coerced into expressing or agreeing with views that you do not hold? If so, this could be characterized as ‘forced’.
If not, and people are just expressing opinions that you don’t agree with, then consider that perhaps you might be being a bit harsh and/or intolerant of their views.
“We have never called alcoholism a disease because, technically speaking, it is not a disease entity. For example, there is no such thing as heart disease. Instead there are many separate heart ailments, or combinations of them. It is something like that with alcoholism. Therefore we did not wish to get in wrong with the medical profession by pronouncing alcoholism a disease entity. Therefore we always called it an illness, or a malady -- a far safer term for us to use.”
I’m curious about your view that the term ‘disease’, and the 12 steps are being “forced”. What exactly does that mean? Are you expected to believe something you don’t wish to believe? Are you being coerced into expressing or agreeing with views that you do not hold? If so, this could be characterized as ‘forced’.
If not, and people are just expressing opinions that you don’t agree with, then consider that perhaps you might be being a bit harsh and/or intolerant of their views.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
To continue to drink and drug in light of all the consequences I faced in the past. Jails, Institutions, suicide attempts, hurt family members, lost jobs, etc
Doesn't sound like a sound mind to me. And I did many times. So yes I was insane. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That this time I could handle it when history proved I couldn't.
And yes My higher power did restore me to sanity. I am powerless over alcohol and drugs
Doesn't sound like a sound mind to me. And I did many times. So yes I was insane. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That this time I could handle it when history proved I couldn't.
And yes My higher power did restore me to sanity. I am powerless over alcohol and drugs
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North of England
Posts: 1,442
AA and the 12 Step model is still the biggest game in town. To be fair to the OP there are some people who do tend to take the approach that it is the 'only' way to get and stay sober. Those people tend also to insist there is no recovery without one's higher power being in essence god. As an atheist I can't accept that, nor can I accept the condescending manner in which the original material suggests atheists and agnostics are arrogant and wilful.
The majority of AA members who are sober long term though are much less pushy or dogmatic. The word 'suggested' in reference to the programme is used in the big book and other AA literature quite a bit and the original ideas really were much less pushy, even if the 'spiritual' element was ultimately the key as far as they were concerned.
Times have changed though. SMART and other secular models are around now and AA offers a less table thumping approach in my experience, especially here in the UK. That may not apply quite so much in the USA I suppose where religion is still important to many more people.
The majority of AA members who are sober long term though are much less pushy or dogmatic. The word 'suggested' in reference to the programme is used in the big book and other AA literature quite a bit and the original ideas really were much less pushy, even if the 'spiritual' element was ultimately the key as far as they were concerned.
Times have changed though. SMART and other secular models are around now and AA offers a less table thumping approach in my experience, especially here in the UK. That may not apply quite so much in the USA I suppose where religion is still important to many more people.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
I'm not sure what 'quacking' is supposed to mean, but I'm simply saying it annoys me. This time I have managed to stay sober for several months, the longest since i left AA. I will check out smart and RR and some self help books, and come on here. I'm not in Denial because I don't believe I have a disease, that's just ridiculous. Obviously I wouldn't be on here or doing the group if I was in 'denial' would I. I am not upset with AA, I just don't see how an AA member can say that this guy was in denial because he didn't want to go to AA..and how she said 'WE' have a disease, 'WE' are powerless. When we are asked to speak from the 'I'. There are many other ways that people have got and stayed sober without AA so it annoys me when AA members make out like it's 'US' and 'THEM' sort of thing..respect other people's views..
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by deeker 
To continue to drink and drug in light of all the consequences I faced in the past. Jails, Institutions, suicide attempts, hurt family members, lost jobs, etc
Doesn't sound like a sound mind to me. And I did many times. So yes I was insane. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That this time I could handle it when history proved I couldn't.
And yes My higher power did restore me to sanity. I am powerless over alcohol and drugs
Doesn't sound like a sound mind to me. And I did many times. So yes I was insane. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That this time I could handle it when history proved I couldn't.
And yes My higher power did restore me to sanity. I am powerless over alcohol and drugs
Do you mind if I ask how exactly did your higher power restore you to sanity?
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norristown
Posts: 17
I personally never used any plan, or program to help me. I never went to a meeting, and this is the first time I've ever pursued any correspondence of what I've gone through. Others told me to try AA, or try a program, go to rehab, they offered many solutions, none of which appealed to me. I did it on my own, which doesn't work for everyone, but turns out worked perfect for me. You are only powerless when you surrender that power, and your only as insane as you believe yourself to be. On a completely off handed note however, sanity is truly in the eyes of the beholder, society doesn't define sanity because there is no definition. What's sane? What's normal? So yes we are all insane, we are all sane. It's your choices that define what you are.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Norristown
Posts: 17
I also do not believe addiction is a disease. In fact, referring to it as such makes me feel like we are smacking in the face people with true diseases. For the 99% of people with diseases, they did not choose that way of life. Addicts chose to use or to drink, and chose to continue. Unless someone stood over them and forced alcohol or drugs into their system on a daily basis, it fails in comparison. And even then, there is always the option to quit.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
Originally Posted by YoungAndDone
I personally never used any plan, or program to help me. I never went to a meeting, and this is the first time I've ever pursued any correspondence of what I've gone through. Others told me to try AA, or try a program, go to rehab, they offered many solutions, none of which appealed to me. I did it on my own, which doesn't work for everyone, but turns out worked perfect for me. You are only powerless when you surrender that power, and your only as insane as you believe yourself to be. On a completely off handed note however, sanity is truly in the eyes of the beholder, society doesn't define sanity because there is no definition. What's sane? What's normal? So yes we are all insane, we are all sane. It's your choices that define what you are.
I just am not a joiner. I don't believe I am powerless. I do believe I have have free choice and with that comes obligation to use it wisely.
As a rational human being, I knew addiction was harming not only me but the people who loved me. Therefore, I did some research on options, made a plan, and started.
Who cares how you "do" getting sober or what you call it--just do it without overthinking and through your daily actions find peace and recovery.
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bklyn. NY
Posts: 1,859
If somebody said that you're in denial because you don't want to go to AA, that person said something stupid that has nothing to do with AA. Being in denial means not admitting there is a problem, when there is a problem. Or thinking one can drink safely, when it's clear that one can't. Some can. The majority of people who wind up passing through the doorways of AA, can't. If they could, they wouldn't be there.
People, IMO, misuse the word "we". And some get even more obnoxious and use the word, "you"
. In the steps and the literature the we, to me, is to be taken literally. WE admitted we were powerless over alcohol. That's what the people who wrote the bigbook and the steps did. Period. The step just tells what they did. It doesn't say, "You must admit you are powerless over alcohol." It doesn't say anything of that sort.
As for the question you asked Deeker, I can't answer for him/her (I forget), but I can tell you what I believe, as I too say that god has restored me to sanity. Again, this is completely just me, not anywhere in AA literature, but how I've come to believe my definition of god works in my life.
When I surrender, I cease fighting. I cease giving my own negative energy (the fighting or need to control) to the things that ail me. When I do that, with the belief that there is a power in the universe (in my case a benevolent energy/force that fuels birth, the planet's rotation, my breathing while I'm asleep, etc) that can naturally heal it, it happens. Whether I or anyone else likes the way that sounds, it's true for me, and I can write pages and pages of detailed experiences. I tried quitting drinking countless times and couldn't, then one day I surrendered thinking I'm probably going to just die a drunk. When I did that I found myself 3 days later in a detox, by a serious of coincidences. And on a path to recovery. Similar story with my 2 1/2 pack a day smoking problem, lack of commitment issues, issues of being self centered, my desire for more than my fair share of sex, and lots of other stuff I was completely oblivious too when I was drinking, and in early sobriety. Things that didn't make me a bad person, but undoubtedly got in the way of my life. I never thought I was a bad person (I am a very good person), and in fact believed I had little if any character defects when I first came into AA. Took time for me to be able to honestly and acurately look at myself.
I'll add to that the fact that character defects don't by themselves make a person "bad", and we all have them. If we believe we don't, then that in itself is a glaring defect. This took a while though to become clear to me.
I realize I'm goin way off here, but want to add one more thing. And again, this might have to just do with the way people are wired. In my experience, when I try to fix something in me, a habit, something about my personality, etc., it always winds up just getting worse. When I let it go in prayer (whether it be a subconscious healing, a letting go, or a dude sitting in a cloud pulling strings cuz I asked), it works. No hardcore science there, but something that's been completely effective for 29 years and counting.
That could sound hilarious, mystical, magical, or whatever, to someone who has never experienced it. And that's fine. My life experience isn't theirs. My only hope for them is that they find something that works equally as well, for them. I am really happy and supportive of my friend who uses CBT, and I never suggested he try or do anything differently. I don't believe he wants to do anything differently, and he doesn't have to.
[edit] Just reread and want to make clear that I by no means think I'm a perfectly healed person. Each and every day things I was unaware of with myself are revealed. I do my best to become the best person I can be, but I'm just as human as the next guy, and still have lot of stuff I can do differently (and/or better). All ya gotta do is read some of my other posts on SR to verify that. This website has a tendancy to bring the worst in me out at times, but I won't run from that. I feel I'm learning a lot here. And I'm hoping to be helpful at the same time.
People, IMO, misuse the word "we". And some get even more obnoxious and use the word, "you"
. In the steps and the literature the we, to me, is to be taken literally. WE admitted we were powerless over alcohol. That's what the people who wrote the bigbook and the steps did. Period. The step just tells what they did. It doesn't say, "You must admit you are powerless over alcohol." It doesn't say anything of that sort. As for the question you asked Deeker, I can't answer for him/her (I forget), but I can tell you what I believe, as I too say that god has restored me to sanity. Again, this is completely just me, not anywhere in AA literature, but how I've come to believe my definition of god works in my life.
When I surrender, I cease fighting. I cease giving my own negative energy (the fighting or need to control) to the things that ail me. When I do that, with the belief that there is a power in the universe (in my case a benevolent energy/force that fuels birth, the planet's rotation, my breathing while I'm asleep, etc) that can naturally heal it, it happens. Whether I or anyone else likes the way that sounds, it's true for me, and I can write pages and pages of detailed experiences. I tried quitting drinking countless times and couldn't, then one day I surrendered thinking I'm probably going to just die a drunk. When I did that I found myself 3 days later in a detox, by a serious of coincidences. And on a path to recovery. Similar story with my 2 1/2 pack a day smoking problem, lack of commitment issues, issues of being self centered, my desire for more than my fair share of sex, and lots of other stuff I was completely oblivious too when I was drinking, and in early sobriety. Things that didn't make me a bad person, but undoubtedly got in the way of my life. I never thought I was a bad person (I am a very good person), and in fact believed I had little if any character defects when I first came into AA. Took time for me to be able to honestly and acurately look at myself.
I'll add to that the fact that character defects don't by themselves make a person "bad", and we all have them. If we believe we don't, then that in itself is a glaring defect
. This took a while though to become clear to me. I realize I'm goin way off here, but want to add one more thing. And again, this might have to just do with the way people are wired. In my experience, when I try to fix something in me, a habit, something about my personality, etc., it always winds up just getting worse. When I let it go in prayer (whether it be a subconscious healing, a letting go, or a dude sitting in a cloud pulling strings cuz I asked), it works. No hardcore science there, but something that's been completely effective for 29 years and counting.
That could sound hilarious, mystical, magical, or whatever, to someone who has never experienced it. And that's fine. My life experience isn't theirs. My only hope for them is that they find something that works equally as well, for them. I am really happy and supportive of my friend who uses CBT, and I never suggested he try or do anything differently. I don't believe he wants to do anything differently, and he doesn't have to.
[edit] Just reread and want to make clear that I by no means think I'm a perfectly healed person. Each and every day things I was unaware of with myself are revealed. I do my best to become the best person I can be, but I'm just as human as the next guy, and still have lot of stuff I can do differently (and/or better). All ya gotta do is read some of my other posts on SR to verify that.
This website has a tendancy to bring the worst in me out at times, but I won't run from that. I feel I'm learning a lot here. And I'm hoping to be helpful at the same time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Central Massachusetts
Posts: 2,051
Originally Posted by YoungAndDone
I also do not believe addiction is a disease. In fact, referring to it as such makes me feel like we are smacking in the face people with true diseases. For the 99% of people with diseases, they did not choose that way of life. Addicts chose to use or to drink, and chose to continue. Unless someone stood over them and forced alcohol or drugs into their system on a daily basis, it fails in comparison. And even then, there is always the option to quit.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by Messedup12
Thanks Deeker,
Do you mind if I ask how exactly did your higher power restore you to sanity?
Do you mind if I ask how exactly did your higher power restore you to sanity?
Exactly how he did it? If I knew that now I wouldn't need God would I?
All I know is my life was out of Control and all I could think about was drinking and drugging and all I knew how to do was drink and drug.
When I finally got out of the driver's seat AND let him have it back, took suggestions from those who were actually staying clean and sober instead of trying once again to try to think myself sober, instead of fighting everything and everyone, sought out his will in place of mine, the obsession was lifted.
How do I personally know what the will of God is? I read the Bible
How do I know when I am not in God's will? I have absolutely no peace. Whenever I am disturbed, restless, irritable , angry. I am living in my own will with to high expectations of people, places and situations around me.
Whenever I jump back into the driver's seat and try to control anything it ends up controlling me. That was another from of insanity. thinking I had control over anything. Especially my drinking and drugging.
Spirituality does not mean religion or God though i love God, for me it is the unseen characteristics that I continually try to work on. It is a part of the awakening or awareness if you will that one has after working the steps when the ego is smashed.
Gal. 5:22-23 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,778
Originally Posted by Joe Nerv
I think people have a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be powerless. And what it means to be insane. Without getting too heavily into it, I'll start by saying that the truth is, IMO we're all pretty much insane. Just take a quick look at the world. I can go into it at depth, but I'll keep it short and sweet; we're killing each other daily in the name of god, half the planet is starving while another half is spending 90,000 on sports and luxury cars, the US has a national debt that is beyond belief and will never get paid back, we worship, look up to, and listen to what actors have to say, we pay them millions and teachers pennies, we elect our world leaders based on how much money they have to campaign, we're killing ourselves with chemicals and the food we eat... AND on top of all this and about a thousand other things I can add, we believe we're completely sane. We're not, and I'll add, especially if we think we are.
As for the powerless thing, we can talk all we want about how much power we think we have, but truth is it's not quite what we think. When sandy hit my neighborhood a couple of years ago, it became really obvious. When my friend Joe, who was believed to be in perfect health died of a massive heart attack two saturdays ago at 51, it showed how powerless he really was. The people close to him got a blast of that powerlessness, also. We can plan something, work at it, do everything we can to make it happen as we want... but in the end we'll be pretty powerless over how it really plays out. We can want our spouses, children, friends, and colleagues to act in certain ways that would be in theirs and everyone else best interest, but trust me when I say, they won't do what we know they should. We are powerless over that. There are lots and lots of things we are powerless over, and we can accept it, or believe, "No! I am not powerless!!!!". That there, to me adds to my first paragraph and makes me think again, if we believe we're not powerless, then we must be insane.
The things we DO have power over are our actions and decisions. AA, as far as I know, never tells anyone they're stripped of that power. To believe that, would IMO also be insane. AA, in fact, only asks that we admit that we're powerless over alcohol. And they don't say everyone is. Some people have no issue with alcohol at all. AA is only suggesting that the person who has tried countless times to stop, yet can't, surrender to it. Surrender to the idea that they can drink safely, or normally. That's not all that huge a deal, if you ask me.
As for the god stuff, I can see that being a real sticking point for some because it requires a belief in something bigger, and more powerful than ourselves. And the steps suggest we call that power, God. That stops some peole short, and I get it. But there is soooo much room in the 12 steps for how we actually define god. It can be Jesus Christ, Allah, The elements, or it can be as simple as a belief in a benevolent universe. How I've come to define god is a lot closer to the last description there. And it's worked countless "miracles" in my life over the past 29 years.
I think people get caught up in certain words that immediately shut their minds down. I feel fortunate that I had enough pain in my life to open the door to welcome some new thinking. It has made all the difference in the world.
Last note on this is that I now have lots of power in my life, thanks to the 12 steps. I have the power to drink, or not drink, and I choose every day to not drink. I have the power to get my ass to work, on time (early actually), for the past 20 years without fail. I have the power to start a new career which I've been considering as of late. The power to travel the world, which I have, to play music in countries I never even dreamed I'd see while I was drinking, the power to own property and become a landlord, the power to meet a wonderful woman and marry her... lots and lots and lots of power, but in a very ironic way that power was born of my recognizing and admitting to things I was powerless over. Took a lot of time, and there's a lot more to say regarding all this, but yeah... that's how this stuff has been playing out for me.
The above is all simply MY OPINION on the things I've learned by utilizing the 12 steps in my life. It is NOT the opinion of AA, nor it's other members. Some might even vehemently disagree.
Just wanted to give my take on it.
As for the powerless thing, we can talk all we want about how much power we think we have, but truth is it's not quite what we think. When sandy hit my neighborhood a couple of years ago, it became really obvious. When my friend Joe, who was believed to be in perfect health died of a massive heart attack two saturdays ago at 51, it showed how powerless he really was. The people close to him got a blast of that powerlessness, also. We can plan something, work at it, do everything we can to make it happen as we want... but in the end we'll be pretty powerless over how it really plays out. We can want our spouses, children, friends, and colleagues to act in certain ways that would be in theirs and everyone else best interest, but trust me when I say, they won't do what we know they should. We are powerless over that. There are lots and lots of things we are powerless over, and we can accept it, or believe, "No! I am not powerless!!!!". That there, to me adds to my first paragraph and makes me think again, if we believe we're not powerless, then we must be insane.
The things we DO have power over are our actions and decisions. AA, as far as I know, never tells anyone they're stripped of that power. To believe that, would IMO also be insane. AA, in fact, only asks that we admit that we're powerless over alcohol. And they don't say everyone is. Some people have no issue with alcohol at all. AA is only suggesting that the person who has tried countless times to stop, yet can't, surrender to it. Surrender to the idea that they can drink safely, or normally. That's not all that huge a deal, if you ask me.
As for the god stuff, I can see that being a real sticking point for some because it requires a belief in something bigger, and more powerful than ourselves. And the steps suggest we call that power, God. That stops some peole short, and I get it. But there is soooo much room in the 12 steps for how we actually define god. It can be Jesus Christ, Allah, The elements, or it can be as simple as a belief in a benevolent universe. How I've come to define god is a lot closer to the last description there. And it's worked countless "miracles" in my life over the past 29 years.
I think people get caught up in certain words that immediately shut their minds down. I feel fortunate that I had enough pain in my life to open the door to welcome some new thinking. It has made all the difference in the world.
Last note on this is that I now have lots of power in my life, thanks to the 12 steps. I have the power to drink, or not drink, and I choose every day to not drink. I have the power to get my ass to work, on time (early actually), for the past 20 years without fail. I have the power to start a new career which I've been considering as of late. The power to travel the world, which I have, to play music in countries I never even dreamed I'd see while I was drinking, the power to own property and become a landlord, the power to meet a wonderful woman and marry her... lots and lots and lots of power, but in a very ironic way that power was born of my recognizing and admitting to things I was powerless over. Took a lot of time, and there's a lot more to say regarding all this, but yeah... that's how this stuff has been playing out for me.
The above is all simply MY OPINION on the things I've learned by utilizing the 12 steps in my life. It is NOT the opinion of AA, nor it's other members. Some might even vehemently disagree.
Just wanted to give my take on it.
Wow. What a powerful and eloquent post. Thank you for that.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
A big part of AA involves critiquing others recovery and telling them what they are dong wrong. Also, in meetings one is supposed to talk about how one has solved problems in recovery and had success.
Some people in the program do these same things to people out of the program and that can seem pushy. They are just trying to be positive.
Some people in the program do these same things to people out of the program and that can seem pushy. They are just trying to be positive.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
A big part of AA involves critiquing others recovery and telling them what they are dong wrong.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Carlotta--
Step 10 talks about an ongoing inventory and acknowledgement when one has done something wrong. Here in Florida they make a big deal of "the meeting after the meeting." People stay after the meetings and tell others what was wrong (and right) in their shares. If you did not share, you might get asked questions about your recovery, so that you can still get feedback.
I went to quite a number of groups looking for something a little less confrontational, but finally realized that this is the program (here at least anyway). A lot of people say the tough love of AA saved them.
Step 10 talks about an ongoing inventory and acknowledgement when one has done something wrong. Here in Florida they make a big deal of "the meeting after the meeting." People stay after the meetings and tell others what was wrong (and right) in their shares. If you did not share, you might get asked questions about your recovery, so that you can still get feedback.
I went to quite a number of groups looking for something a little less confrontational, but finally realized that this is the program (here at least anyway). A lot of people say the tough love of AA saved them.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Here in Florida they make a big deal of "the meeting after the meeting." People stay after the meetings and tell others what was wrong (and right) in their shares. If you did not share, you might get asked questions about your recovery, so that you can still get feedback.
My home group is a step group. We do not cross talk and we do not criticize people's share after the meeting. The kind of feedback you might get is that if you shared you are moving this week end, someone might ask you if you need some help LOL.
Step 10:“Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.”
What it basically means is that when you have a situation (some people do that step daily), you just sit down and do a mini version of the 4th step and see what was your part in the situation. You then get to take corrective actions.
It has nothing to do to admitting anything to the AA group.
An example would be let's say that your partner and you got into a disagreement over something. You got snippy and it does not feel right so you examine what transpired and what was your part in it (it generally takes 2 to tango)
You apologize to him/her for being snippy and take corrective actions with yourself so the situation does not repeat itself and you do not repeat the same pattern.
Nowhere does it say you have to confess what happened to the group.
I have also done a 10 step over situations where after close examination I realized I had no part in it and whatever action I would take, it could blow in my face. Based on looking at the situation and knowing my pattern of trying to control and manipulate things, I was able to turn it over and let it ride it's course (basically did a third step over it).
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I sorry if I mislead. In the meeting itself there is no crosstalk or feedback.
But after the meeting people stick around and that is where all the feedback happens. It was not to the group, but rather to individuals. People get pretty social, so it wasn't like anyone would be listening to anyone else's conversation.
I got stuck on Step 2 for years so I got a few earfuls on that. Eventually, I just left right after the meeting. That was thought to be a bad thing, and it was expected that you would stay and talk. But I figured I wasn't there to make friends so I left.
I know this helps a lot of people but it did nothing for me.
But after the meeting people stick around and that is where all the feedback happens. It was not to the group, but rather to individuals. People get pretty social, so it wasn't like anyone would be listening to anyone else's conversation.
I got stuck on Step 2 for years so I got a few earfuls on that. Eventually, I just left right after the meeting. That was thought to be a bad thing, and it was expected that you would stay and talk. But I figured I wasn't there to make friends so I left.
I know this helps a lot of people but it did nothing for me.
Recovering ostrich
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Tampa Bay, Florida
Posts: 2,551
Originally Posted by miamifella
Carlotta-- Step 10 talks about an ongoing inventory and acknowledgement when one has done something wrong. Here in Florida they make a big deal of "the meeting after the meeting." People stay after the meetings and tell others what was wrong (and right) in their shares.
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