Still Wanting Answers

Old 09-13-2012, 09:01 PM
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Still Wanting Answers

hello all,
been here for quite some time and if you were to follow my story, as many others on here, it has been a rough and tumultuous road for me.

I just broke up with my 26 year old, alcoholic bf of two years. At first, things were bliss. He "pretended" to be a non-drinker and tried his best to convince me I would "never see him drunk because it was "not pretty". He defamed his family, swore I would never meet them (All warning signs) but when he told me his story, I couldnt help but sympathize and somehow feel an inkling of admiration for this guy who seemed to be trying to keep his life on track.

He is the son of two alcoholics. A mother who drank heavily through her pregnancy and a father who stopped working when he was five. Only to stay home drink and abuse and neglect his children and wife--to this day. Every one of his family members has had their licences taken away due to DUI and he has a younger sister who is addicted to Oxy among other things.

All of his childhood friends are addicts and alcoholics. He can sometimes even point some of them out on the street for me. The worse off ones, camping out at local liquor stores. All these people SO young!

He soon came to describe some of his childhood exploits to me: police run ins, driving drunk, stabbings, all kinds of drug use, a father who joined in on the fun , barely finishing highschool.

I would think "wow! and you have come so far!"...A talent for music, his own place and car, a steady job. And this blossoming, seemingly healthy relationship...

Fast forward to now. The relationship is over and I am left devastated and without an inch of self esteem or self worth. My heart is broken thinking of the wonderful love that existed at the start of our relationship when he was "sober". I am attending Al Anon regularly, including a support group weekly for friends and family members of addicts and alcoholics. My recovery has begun but I have burning questions I can not help but ask and want answers for:

Many on here tell me to forget about him and move on. Well, I have been left with no choice! This isn't about hope or salvaging but some insight into the mind of someone struggling with this disease...

He used to tell me I was the best thing that ever happened to him. He had never felt like this about someone. Promises of a sober life together. I would glimpse moments where he would cry and say he does not want to end up like his father. Like the cycle goes, he would swear he was going to seek help but the next day would arrive and that never happened.

In one of our last conversations I asked him who was the real him: the man I met at first or this monster he was behaving like now. He said the man I met first, but that he was this person, more often than not. Then, hesitated and blurted out " I do not know actually".

Do these words ring true for any recovered poster on here?

Right now, he has villafied me. Even at the bitter end where he was calling on every and any little incident to blame me for the end of us and listing all the ways I "pissed him off", he bookends by saying that I am 'perfect'. I am the most beautiful thing he has ever seen and he has not ever stopped loving me. That he could never have imagined a woman like me finding good in him to love...

Of course, this is all text book. I know. The 'baggage' abounds! But it was the end. No time for manipulating. Him letting me "down". If you have the most wonderful thing that ever happened in front of you, how can you then blame them for "driving you to drink" and leave them behind? What is that?!

I want to know: for those of you who have come out of the darkness, do you ever reflect back to things you have done and fully understand the scope of those you have hurt? At the time you were doing these things, even in the throes of your addiction, did you have moments where you understood the pain you were causing? I just cannot, for the life of me, reconcile the kind, soft spoken man I met, with this monster that everyone is saying just "DOES NOT CARE AT ALL". I know the substances and alcohol aide in this apathy, but again, the gravity and reality of some of the things we have been through have to have some impact?? Especially, when I am present for those brief moments, when the tears flow and the admittance peaks through: "I love you so much...I do not want to be this way"

I know most of this may seem so emotionally, unintelligent and selfish. But I just wanted to know, that even for a moment he thinks of what he has done to me with some remorse. That he isn't off somewhere cheering it up with his old drinking buddies, that he is finally rid of me: happier than a pig in poop that he has shaken me off.

A friend of mine said to me tonight: to shake those images from my mind. The skipping into the sunset with the enabling ex, the happy times with friends. Because someone like that, will never reach true happiness in any moment.

But as an alcoholic, with drink in hand, and no obstacles to that next beer: was that not true happiness for you?

On one hand, I have people say "oh he is an alcoholic all he cares about is drinking" but then you hear that alcoholism is perpetuated by feelings of shame, guilt, remorse. So how can both be at once??!

If and when he wakes up to the light at the end of the tunnel will he remember the meals I made for him? The lovingly packed lunches? The times I held his hands while he cried and told him he is kind, he is worthy and he is good? The times we sat together and discussed that he could do whatever he wanted in life? Will he ever appreciate and realize I tried? Despite the fighting and tears and all the Al Anon no no's. I do not want to revel in his pain or anguish, but I do want to know: Can he , will he, ever know how much I loved him?

Or have I been relegated, indefinitely, to a list of crazy witches who tried to 'control' him and drove him to drink??

Don't get me wrong: some of the tuff lovin' I've had on here has pulled me out of the darkest moments of my life. I'd just like to hear from some recovered members. I want some real insight. Not just "forget about him he doesnt care about you". Not 'judgy' posts about how dumb I am to still be thinking of him....I am moving on the best I can right now. Seeking help outside myself and taking care of me. But for now, I am still wanting answers in my moments of weakness.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by abandonedluv View Post
...I'd just like to hear from some recovered members. I want some real insight. Not just "forget about him he doesnt care about you". Not 'judgy' posts about how dumb I am to still be thinking of him....I am moving on the best I can right now. Seeking help outside myself and taking care of me. But for now, I am still wanting answers in my moments of weakness.
When I was drinking, what I wanted and what I needed were 2 different things. The "real me" didn't stand a chance against the "drinking me" when it came to most of my behaviors. It was a like a Jeckle & Hide situation. I was truly ashamed of myself yet powerless to act otherwise once the booze was in me.

Try not to be too judgmental about the situation. Alcoholism does not make anymore sense to those who have it than to those who witness it.
There is still a chance that he will someday find permanent sobriety but the odds are against it so don't get your hopes up.
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:51 AM
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Hi luv, I've read your past posts. I send you prayers and hugs. You certainly have had your share of anguish and torment.
I am much like you that I want to make sense of things, want an answer or understanding where there may be none.
Have you considered that there just may not be an answer to the question you are asking? There is no logic or rational understanding to be realized. I hate this saying but it seems apt- "it is what it is". Maybe it is everything you suggest, not an either /or, or maybe it is nothing.
I'm sorry. I hate that you are so tormented and it's not fair. But I also hate to see someone continuing to seek enlightenment in a place where it may not be found. Its not a logical disease.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:32 AM
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Abandonedluv, sorry to hear you had to go thru all of that. I don't really believe that you can paint all alcoholics with one broad brushstroke tho. Personality types, traits and all of that probably vary as much with alcoholics as they do the general public.

Contrary to popular belief not all alcoholics are selfish, self-centered uncaring people. Many live in a world of fear, anxiety and depression. Some actually believe they need alcohlol to function and can't imagine a life free of mood altering substances. There are also different stages of the disease, it is progressive, some are functional others are not. The only trait I really see as the same in all alcoholics is an addiction to alcohol.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by kittycat3 View Post
I'm sorry. I hate that you are so tormented and it's not fair. But I also hate to see someone continuing to seek enlightenment in a place where it may not be found. Its not a logical disease.
My thoughts exactly. You are driving yourself crazy chasing after answers you will never get.

I'm an alcoholic, yet I can't comprehend the disease. It must be ten times for frustrating for the loved one of an A.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:26 PM
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I'm sorry for the pain you are feeling right now.

The questions you are asking sound like someone who is grieving, which is what you are doing. You are trying to make sense of this loss. In time, you will find a way to sort out your feelings about the man, the relationship and his addiction.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:11 AM
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The Big Book of AA has some of the answers you are looking for. For myself, the most baffling thing was how I always ended up hurting and alienating people, even though my intention was just to have a good time when I picked up that first drink. I never set out to be like that, but I became increasingly selfish and self centred, my life towards the end of my drinking was run on pure instinct. I crashed my way through peoples lives hurting them and they often retaliated.. Sometimes I was beaten up, other times ostracised. But I always knew I was in the wrong. I felt bad, guilty, remorseful about my behaviour but could not front up as a normal person might. I continued to drink and matters just got worse.

When I recovered, I learned, among other things, that I must clean up the wreckage of the past if I want to stay sober. The memories of the people I hurt haunted me, there was no escape, I had to make amends or drink again. In my experience no real alcoholic can be happily sober unless they have done their utmost to set right past wrongs. The first example of this was AAs co-founder Dr Bob who initially refused to make his amends. He got drunk. Then he made his amends and never drank again.
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Old 11-10-2012, 10:30 AM
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I'm here today trying to make a go of it yet again. If you look through the history of my posts you will see that I have been trying to get sober for years. And actually part of the problem that I face that I think many others face is not that I want to get sober but that I'm trying not to be an alcoholic because I'm so ashamed of it instead of treating it like the disease it is and trying to deal with the reality of it.


I think for some of us, the panic of not wanting to BE an alcoholic causes us to drink because if we can drink and stop we won't be an alcoholic, we'll just be an occasional drunk. So we try it and screw up over and over again. The worse we screw up the more we want to pretend it isn't as bad as we think it is.


I had someone walk into a bar and fall sideways knocking over three bar stools. I'll think, (see I'm not that bad!)



My family isn't as bad as his is but I will say that part of the problem in my life is that I had a very abusive upbringing by a crazy alcoholic mother and the "worst thing in the world" to me would be to "be like her"

Because of this I have major levels of pain dealing with the shame associated with the BIG A WORD as we call it in our family.

If I didn't have the past I did I might look at the whole thing differently. I'd see it as an illness and not a sense of complete failure as a human being.

Someone compared alcoholism to an allergy against alcohol. I thought this was a great explanation. If you have an allergy there's no shame or self blame in it. It's just the way your body is made up.

For me though, and for many alcoholics we also grew up with alcoholics and so we feel practically evil and like a huge failure for being "like them."

It seems to me that this is what is going on with your boyfriend. And I can tell you that my husband is loving and supportive but we've been married for 12 years and I am honest with him about how I lie to him, deceive him etc. If that makes any sense.

Your boyfriend is not worth putting yourself through this. I would never marry or date an addict. The collateral damage in the disease is life changing and horrible. Run and do not look back.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by abandonedluv View Post
hello all

In one of our last conversations I asked him who was the real him: the man I met at first or this monster he was behaving like now. He said the man I met first, but that he was this person, more often than not. Then, hesitated and blurted out " I do not know actually".

Do these words ring true for any recovered poster on here?



I want to know: for those of you who have come out of the darkness, do you ever reflect back to things you have done and fully understand the scope of those you have hurt? At the time you were doing these things, even in the throes of your addiction, did you have moments where you understood the pain you were causing.

Or have I been relegated, indefinitely, to a list of crazy witches who tried to 'control' him and drove him to drink?

I'd just like to hear from some recovered members. I want some real insight. Not just "forget about him he doesnt care about you". Not 'judgy' posts about how dumb I am to still be thinking of him....I am moving on the best I can right now. .
Hi abandendluv.

Your post has been heavily edited and bold-ed by me to save space.

I have been in recovery for 25 years now, and I can Honestly (but not proudly) say all I ever cared about while I was drinking was me. What I wanted, how to get it and where was the next drink. For a women it wasn't pretty.I honestly believe when we are in the throws of alcoholism nothing matters to us but our next drink--alcohol is our lover, friend, confidant and savior. That is the selfishness of alcoholism--it is all about us, our needs and feelings. For me even after 25 yrs of sobriety I can not comprehend the hurt I could have caused people. I do most definitely know I am embarrassed and mortified at the things I said and did while drunk--that is about all the guilt I can live with. I suppose I fool myself into thinking I wasn't so bad, after all everyone knew I was a drunk, what did they expect? That was always my way out of coming to terms with anything of importance.

Your boyfriend was being honest when he said he really did not know WHO he was. I did know I wanted to be who I was when I drank---I was amazing, had all the answers , felt none of the pain I caused anyone, even me. So I would say I don't think (IMOO) your boyfriend while drunk really knows how much he hurt you or how much you even meant to him---because it was all a dream state. The one thing we drunks have on our side is we forget most of what happens when we are in this state. We don't see what we do to other people because we are only concerned with how we are feeling.

The one thing you have to realize is there are relationships just like yours that have nothing to do with one of the partners or both being alcoholics. What you have described is simply the life lesson of relationships (with or without an alcoholic).

Know this, NO ONE causes an alcoholic to become an alcoholic, but themselves. That is just a really good excuse, and a way to displace their guilt. So you have done nothing to cause this man to go back to drinking or any other drug. Something inside himself caused that.

I also would never want anyone to tell you "just get over him, he is a drunk, and doesn't care for you"--ask yourself where have these people lived??? in a vacuum, never being touched by love?....because that is the only way you could EVER make a statement like that. We fall in love with who we fall in love with, no rhyme or reason. Anyone who has truly loved knows that love cannot be shut off like a faucet when it ends. It is like a death and you need time to grieve. Be kind to yourself an allow yourself that time. A true friend will understand your pain.

You have a wonderful full life ahead of you and someday let us hope your 26 year old boyfriend will be a distant memory in a pretty fantastic future.

Keep the faith, your life has just begun to be written.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:14 AM
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My feeling is that at least some of the behaviors people view as being caused by addiction are in fact caused by personality disorders, in particular antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder. These personality disorders very often co-occur with addictions.

Here is a cut and paste from a brief article I found on the internet explaining what I mean:

"Addiction can be a serious problem for any relationship to endure. It is easy to get into a mode as a partner of rescuing and shielding the addict form the consequences of his or her behaviors. Sometimes the addiction is the main issue, but there are also instances where an addiction can signal a larger problem. Personality disorders frequently involve compulsive behaviors, which can include addictions. Keeping in mind that using addicts can show behavior that may mimic personality disorders, here are 9 signs that your partner may have more going on than simple addiction, and may be afflicted with a personality disorder such as narcissism or sociopathy:

1. Lack of remorse of a true guilt response for doing something wrong. Lacking a conscience, a person with sociopathy is likely to be upset of caught, if he or she thinks faking a response will return you to his or her control. the true repentance for the act is lacking, and the sociopath may even feel entitled to harm others if they are weak enough to "set themselves up."

2. Lack of empathy for the emotional needs of others. Your partner may be incapable of placing him or herself into someone else's shoes and acts callously as a result.

3. A lack of proper behavioral controls. This can result in compulsive behaviors related to sexuality, drugs, and alcohol.

4. A tendency to act violently, such as fistfights or other explosive events.

5. A consistent irresponsibility is displayed, such as being unable to hold down a steady job, pay bills on time, or honor marital commitments.

6. Your partner might feel a grandiose sense of a self worth, exaggerating what he or she has accomplished, expecting others to offer excessive raise, and adopting a haughty attitude toward others.

7. Shallow emotions and a glib and superficial kind of charm. Your partner may be able to motivate people and con them, lie, or otherwise get what he or she wants, but true depth of emotion is lacking.

8. Idealized thinking, such as in relation to power, beauty, and love. Once the object of the idealization "falls from grace," it is quickly devalued and rejected completely as worthless.

9. A failure to conform to the normal rules and expectations of our society. Your partner may feel as if he or she is above the rules and does not have to obey them like everyone else.

Article Source: Addiction and Personality Disorders - 9 Signs of a Bigger Issue
"

There are two reasons I think it is important to keep this in mind when talking about the behavior of people with addictions and people who have recovered. First, most people with addictions, present or past, do NOT have personality disorders; it is inaccurate to assume that all of us share these traits. Second, understanding that there may be something more than addiction going on may help family members to understand that they are dealing with something larger and frankly much more difficult to address than addiction.
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