Leadfoot

Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues. To me, that means "Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinions on outside issues". As far as I'm concerned that should be the end of it all. The first thing a good sponsor should do after taking you through the steps is get you into traditions. Traditions are the integrity of Alcoholics Anonymous and if I have the perceived right to change the traditions to suit my desires then I also have the right to change the steps to suit my desires. I don't.
It says what it says.

hamabi

"Each time it has been clear that I was in danger and took me back to more meetings and seeking the answer in working the steps and seeking my higher..."

This sticks out and is the key to your dilemma, imo. Post-pills events you were alarmed and saw a danger to your continuing life of sobriety, and then recommitted to what had earlier worked well for you and followed through with it for a time.

That there were other pill incidents that had the same pattern shows the problem might be one of complacency, not that you are a pillhead. When your use or involvement in our solution is sufficiently low you run into some difficulty in life and reach out for some perceived immediate fix.

In another person it might be running to the casino, or buying a new car, or enrolling in school. The response to these spots varies.

Imo that's your problem, and seeing that as what needs to be addressed is far more important than the taking of some pills when you didn't have a pain.

Making a commitment to stay involved in backing up your continuing sobriety by continual actions (by now you know what they are) will prevent these episodes.

What you decide regarding what number is on your annual cake is of far less import than avoiding these spots, and is no one's business but yours.

BackToSquareOne

What about the buzz you get off caffeine, or a sugar high, or your doc prescribes pain pills or benzos and you like them a little too much or you use a diet aid like ephedrine and start to enjoy the buzz, where do you draw the line?

Joe Nerv

I have a similar exerience, in so far as people thought I should change my date. Some still do.

At 6 months sober, for no good reason I picked up a bottle of wine that was in my parents house, took a mouthful, and swallowed it. Didn't really want to drink, it was new years eve and I think I was just pissed off at the moment that I felt like I wasn't allowed. Or something like that. Anyhow...

I immediately called my sponsor, followed his instructions, and emptied the rest of the bottle down the drain. Was that a slip? I didn't get drunk, not even buzzed, I didn't continue on, and the wine didn't affect me at all. My sponsor didn't lay a guilt trip on me, and I believe he asked me what it would mean to me if I were to start counting again at day one. Like a good alcoholic I said if I'm starting over again, then I'm getting drunk. Not going to waste going back to day 1 for one mouthful. Pretty sure he then said, "OK. You didn't lose anything." And so I never started counting again. 28 years later, I don't regret that decision. Had I started counting again there's an excellent chance I may have picked up. I wasn't in the best shape at 6 months. Had I restarted counting and not picked up, timewise, today I'd still have 28 years sober. If I kicked back my time now, it really wouldn't make any difference except for the fact that the date I acually DID put alcohol down has a lot more significance to me that new years eve 1985. So I keep my date, and it really doesn't matter.

As much as I think many people deny it, I believe we all put a lot of emphasis on the amount of time we have sober. There is good reason for that, as in time I believe we have accumulated lots of sober references and experiences, but in reality and relationship to our disease, IMO it really means nothing. The most important thing is that I keep the drink down. The second most important thing is that I keep on growing.

To thine own self be true can be looked at many ways. In my instance it meant doing what I needed to survive, and knowing that changing my date really had no significant value for me or anyone else. I was never dishonest about what I did, and I'm not hiding anything from anyone. I can only hope my experience has helped, or will one day help another.

I'll add a +1 to those who said AA is about abstinance from alcohol, so technically you still have all that time away from a drink. Bottom line here is as most have already said, you need to do what sits right with you.

Forlily

I would agree with the sober date of thirty years and clean date adjustment rationale, most importantly Stay Clean and Sober!! You Rock! (And inspire me!)

LexieCat

Anyone notice this is a 7-m/o thread?

paul99

Still a compelling question and thread though....

deeker

I relapsed on cough medicine. I am an alkie and an addict. No alcohol in the cough medicine. But I took it to escape so I did change my sobriety date and picked up a white. I was buzzed. I think the only way you grow is if you look deeply at the thinking that preceded the escape into anything really. After all alcohol is just a symptom of our illness right?

Natom

This is a tough one. Someone said AA is only about alcohol. So surely if I complete the 12 steps of AA and don't drink but smoke crack and mainline heroin then I'm recovered? Be honest with yourself. You can blame your marriage on the drug use but then what else have we blamed substance use on in the past.

Natom.

Leadfoot

AA literature describes the drinking patterns of normal drinkers and explains why they drink. If a person could drink like that they wouldn't be an alcoholic. Nor would they desire a sobriety date. If a person smokes dope in the same manner that a normal drinker drinks it would be a non issue. More power to them. If they substitute alcohol and go on with a drug habit that rivaled their drinking it would be a different story. Just because someone has an issue with alcohol and quits in order to improve the quality of their lives it doesn't mean they have an obligation to avoid cutting loose from time to time as a normal person would.
There's a difference between sobriety and sainthood.

BethS

I think that 'dates' and 'lenghths of time' in sobriety are given more importance than they should have. If you don't drink for 20 years, you have one night of relapse and then never drink again for another 10 years, does that mean you're only 10 years sober? No.

I think we need to be honest with ourselves about the impact of a relapse or use of other substances and what that means for us. If a relapse or use of other substances shows that you have 'undone' the good work of not drinking previously, then by all means, begin again. If not, then really, what does it matter?

Sobriety and recovery are about quality, not quantity.

Dee74

If it were me, I wouldn't take that to mean I was sober 30 years tho either Beth.

I used to fudge the truth and rationalise a lot as a drinker - I no longer want to do that in my recovery.

Have a sober date or not...the important thing is we stay in recovery....

but - if you're gonna have a sober date I think it needs to stand for something, y'know..?

D

BethS

No, I would probably say I was sober 30 years with one blip if anyone asked. I guess I'm just trying to say I think it's important to focus on what recovery is, and if it has been affected rather than anything else. Like you said, "the important thing is that we stay in recovery"

Actually, I do forget my own date and have to struggle to recall it. I guess that was because I got to a point where it no longer mattered as much. That sweet place of recovery

Dee74

you and I have no argument there

D

Barto

I went from 26 years to a few days 9 months ago. It was difficult, but I needed to do it. I had to get honest. I took the pills to escape. I was not sober.

tehmazzyland

If you are honest with yourself, deep down, then you will know if there was a difference between the medication and a drink.

There have been some awesome replies to your OP.

lol - when I joined SR I put the wrong year in the sobriety date - which knocked a whole twelve months off my recovery. When I realised I was scared of correcting it in case a mod checked and thought I was lying (lol at me). :P

NoelleR

As pointed out earlier............: "Sobriety and recovery are about quality, not quantity"

Yes, this is true, but it takes some quantity to achieve said quality. ...'n I've found thst usually, the folks that shout that out the loudest and the most often don't have much quantity, and I try not to discern someone else's sobriety/recovery, when it comes to quality.


(o:
NoelleR

WhatamIdoing21

I have also heard the sayings like "those who don't appreciate clean/sober time probably don't have much". This may be true in some cases but doesn't a 12 Step Fellowship also teach the idea of not judging others? Maybe some one who speaks about clean/sober being way too emphasized has a point. After all, AA as fellowship has addresses this issue a few times themselves. The idea that anniversaries were a reason for one to think they had graduated or beat the disease was a clear problem in some early groups. AA had kicked around the idea to set up some specific formats as to how groups handled anniversaries. Some groups contacted professionals to seek solutions to this relapse/slip problem that their members were experiencing. Dr. Tiebout who was very prominent in early AA as a board member and one who would help define some of the terms we so often hear today (surrender, ego, etc) was very clear in all his writings that the focus needs to be staying sober today. He wrote several papers on how damaging ego is to the alcoholic. We all know this to be true yet so many want to focus more on clean time than where they are in life. I would say for many of these people it is because the ego is more wrapped in a date than how far the journey has taken them towards real recovery. In all honesty, what difference does a date mean other than to the individual who wants to recognize their own accomplishments. We hear the sayings, "compare yourself to yourself" ... yet sometimes it is very difficult to do that when people openly idolize a person based on their sober/clean time. I for one could care less about my clean date. It doesn't matter. We are taught to respect everyone equally yet we take big steps in separating members. Is it not possible for a second year professional athlete to be better than an athlete who has years of experience? Would that statement not be true of any profession? So why is so sacred for the addict/alcoholic to boast of their clean time and make others feel less than for not having as much? Why do some put others down publicly for a belief that if genuine would seem to demonstrate a removal of ego and a readiness to welcome all members as equals? I could care less about your clean time and how much of it you "think" you have. I have today clean when I want to think about it because it is not just about the substance as we also state, it is about the behaviors right? And I have a long way to go before abstaining from the behaviors that will bring me back to the substance. What I care about is what you are doing today to stay clean/sober. Your date is your choice and if recognizing one date over another is going to help you get another day clean, than so be it. If that one date is about your ego or image that you are looking to project to others, than you might want to take a deeper look at yourself.

TheEnd

You don't care about dates, you don't care about clean time, you just care about today. Sounds good in theory, but when I was actively using, I had a lot of "Todays". Today was always going to be the day I was going to change my life and not repeat past mistakes. Sorry, but to me, "Todays" are total BS. If you are making true progress on your journey of "real recovery" as you say it, then you will have no problem looking back and putting a stamp on a significant moment in your life when you decided to make that change. You want to know how far somone has come, how is this possible unless you know where they have been? People that live in "Todays" can either choose to drink or not drink on that given day and all they will have tomorrow is "Today". To me that is not an option and I have more than just today, I have today along with the other days in my past that I have accumulated.

It doesn't make me better than you, but it does mean I stand by my commitment of sobriety that I made back then and continue to live according to as the days shall pass.

WhatamIdoing21

You asked ... How do I know how far some one has come? I ask them ... talk to them ... get to know them. I approach all the same way whether they are new or have a dozen years clean/sober. What I said early in the post is that I believe too much emphasis is put on clean/sober time. A byproduct of that emphasis is the almost icon status that is given to some who solely because of their clean time are recognized as people that others should follow. The worshiping becomes common throughout the fellowship for the exact reason you pointed out ... how do you know where some one has been or how far they have come? Rather than asking that person and sharing openly with them, many in the fellowship take the easy way out and rate members on the amount of years/months/weeks/days they have abstained. The time a person has abstaining means nothing when it comes to knowing how far they have come. This is evidenced by the fact that you could have ten people in recovery all start on the same day and all abstain from that start day, yet all are at different levels of recovery. As the saying goes, we all recover at a different rate. Do you think all of those with two years clean/sober and ready to take on sponsees? You can't possibly know some ones life just by knowing their clean time. I totally respect anyone who strings together a bunch of "today's" and wants to keep track of that accumulation of days. I just think "too much" emphasis is placed on this. I Loved the word you used in your closing ... "commitment". I can't hear that word enough when it comes to recovery.