Do you think self-identifying as an addict is detrimental to recovery
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Near Scranton PA
Posts: 424
I'm going to jump back into this discussion. I was at dinner with some friends and one of the gentlemen made a comment about addicts, to the effect "Why don't we just lock them in a room and give them all the drugs they want? It's cheaper than trying to clean them up".
It was a callous remark and I took the opportunity to make it a teachable moment.
As a matter of conscience, it's necessary that I identify myself as an alcoholic and addict because I want the world to change. No big deal. I just want the world to change. I'm an addict. My ancestors were addicts. My friends and their children might be addicts. Society, by and large, does not have a history of treating addicts well and I think that's a crying shame.
So, beyond what's comfortable for me and my recovery, I think it's important that the people I interact with realize that addiction isn't some kid doing the dope nod on a park bench. It's me and maybe their wife or their brother and we're all in this together.
It was a callous remark and I took the opportunity to make it a teachable moment.
As a matter of conscience, it's necessary that I identify myself as an alcoholic and addict because I want the world to change. No big deal. I just want the world to change. I'm an addict. My ancestors were addicts. My friends and their children might be addicts. Society, by and large, does not have a history of treating addicts well and I think that's a crying shame.
So, beyond what's comfortable for me and my recovery, I think it's important that the people I interact with realize that addiction isn't some kid doing the dope nod on a park bench. It's me and maybe their wife or their brother and we're all in this together.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Reading many threads & comments here, including the 'normies' threads in the family forums, there seems to be a strong culture of 'us vs them' in regards to addicts vs non-addicts. In some instances it seems like it's almost worn as a badge of honor by some.
I don't think there is any badge of honor on either side. I am not one to get tied up in lables, it's awareness, that's all. None of us want to be in the pain we are in, words have limits, but in some way we have to be able to define, if you will our own issues, again if you will. There is no malice, I am a codie, it took a long time for me to come to terms with the definition, only because of my denial. We are all hurting, we have an opportunity to validate each other.
I have been able to recognize the pain in the life of the alcoholic I love, he has no desire to recognize the pain that his addiction has caused me. Is it me against him, no, am I wearing a badge of honor, absolutely not, I am trying to heal, I don't like seeing his pain, and I don't like feeling mine. We are both responsible for our own healing. I am beginning to see how my own behavior has impacted both of us.
I really wouldn't classify either side as normal, we all have a lot of pain.
I don't think there is any badge of honor on either side. I am not one to get tied up in lables, it's awareness, that's all. None of us want to be in the pain we are in, words have limits, but in some way we have to be able to define, if you will our own issues, again if you will. There is no malice, I am a codie, it took a long time for me to come to terms with the definition, only because of my denial. We are all hurting, we have an opportunity to validate each other.
I have been able to recognize the pain in the life of the alcoholic I love, he has no desire to recognize the pain that his addiction has caused me. Is it me against him, no, am I wearing a badge of honor, absolutely not, I am trying to heal, I don't like seeing his pain, and I don't like feeling mine. We are both responsible for our own healing. I am beginning to see how my own behavior has impacted both of us.
I really wouldn't classify either side as normal, we all have a lot of pain.
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by GrowingDaily 
Not only do I not want to consider myself something apart from normal, I don't think doing so would be accurate. Nor do I think seeing myself as abnormal would be conducive to improvement.
You are not something apart from normal... you and billions of other individuals each contribute to the range of normal. Pick one attribute, anything, physical, mental, medical, financial... some will be farther out on the curve, the bell curve, than others... but pick a second one... then it all falls out differently.
Seeing yourself as "abnormal" may or not be conducive to improvement, depending on your definition of abnormal and whatever implications or stigma you may apply to being "abnormal"...
But then..... this is all an exercise in self centered thinking, LOL... and remember I was there once, still am occasionally, usually when I find myself surrounded by drinkers, LOL... and then, how do you apply any definitions of normal in those situations??????? LOL
Back to my point.
My experience was that once I got recovered, and became comfortable in my own sober skin and began to see things as "we" and not "me and the rest of the world"... I left a lot of questions about whether I was abnormal or not, behind. Progress, not perfection, but when I am cranky and resentful.... I know I have moved myself back to the center of the universe in my own mind and have some work to do, LOL...
I am just trying to relax, some days go better than others... I think I've heard a few "normies" say the exact same thing.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by SOBERINNEPA
I'm going to jump back into this discussion. I was at dinner with some friends and one of the gentlemen made a comment about addicts, to the effect "Why don't we just lock them in a room and give them all the drugs they want? It's cheaper than trying to clean them up".
It was a callous remark and I took the opportunity to make it a teachable moment.
As a matter of conscience, it's necessary that I identify myself as an alcoholic and addict because I want the world to change. No big deal. I just want the world to change. I'm an addict. My ancestors were addicts. My friends and their children might be addicts. Society, by and large, does not have a history of treating addicts well and I think that's a crying shame.
So, beyond what's comfortable for me and my recovery, I think it's important that the people I interact with realize that addiction isn't some kid doing the dope nod on a park bench. It's me and maybe their wife or their brother and we're all in this together.
It was a callous remark and I took the opportunity to make it a teachable moment.
As a matter of conscience, it's necessary that I identify myself as an alcoholic and addict because I want the world to change. No big deal. I just want the world to change. I'm an addict. My ancestors were addicts. My friends and their children might be addicts. Society, by and large, does not have a history of treating addicts well and I think that's a crying shame.
So, beyond what's comfortable for me and my recovery, I think it's important that the people I interact with realize that addiction isn't some kid doing the dope nod on a park bench. It's me and maybe their wife or their brother and we're all in this together.
IMO, whether one views themself as "recovering" or "recovered" is just a game of semantics. The fact is that we educate others.
None of us would be hanging around recovery forums, spend endless hours reading and researching addiction and providing links, doing advocacy, etc if we truly did NOT identify with addiction on some level - even if we are decades past our last drink.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1
I was at a point where a major change in behavior would've brought me much more happiness than continuing what I was doing (committing crimes to support a 24/7 speed-balling habit).
For 5 years, I identified both internally (psychologically) and externally (in discussions with people in the recovery culture and loved ones) as an addict. For those 5 years, I struggled like heck. I think the label was one roadblock to change.
The label of addicted made me internalize a negative limiting concept of myself as unchangeable. When I finally licked my problem for good and changed, it also included throwing away the entire addict label and identity. That was over 10 years ago!
So, I don't think the label is helpful, and I go a step further with my opinion believing it to be harmful.
For 5 years, I identified both internally (psychologically) and externally (in discussions with people in the recovery culture and loved ones) as an addict. For those 5 years, I struggled like heck. I think the label was one roadblock to change.
The label of addicted made me internalize a negative limiting concept of myself as unchangeable. When I finally licked my problem for good and changed, it also included throwing away the entire addict label and identity. That was over 10 years ago!
So, I don't think the label is helpful, and I go a step further with my opinion believing it to be harmful.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Queensland
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by dgillz
I hate it when people use the word "normies" or "earthlings" to refer to those that don't abuse alcohol or drugs. I do however believe that it is import for me to self identify as an alcoholic.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: London, England
Posts: 724
I'm not interested in labels. All I care about is staying sober. But I know that if I start to think I don't have a problem, I will end up drinking. I remember telling myself 'I don't have a problem, so why stop drinking?' when I realised that I couldn't stop drinking on my own.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,393
I do think it is important to admit to addictions. I believe anyone can have them. I have alcohol addiction. I don't think I am special. I think anyone who drank as consistently as I did, would have the same issues. Everyone has problems. There is no such thing as normal. People are human. With human weakness. Anyone can be an addict. And anyone can recover. That's my opinion. Sober 2 years and going forward. This is my problem. And I deal with it. You can too.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I have to admit I am weirded out by this use of "normal." I am not sure how being "normal" excludes addiction. Or for that matter makes someone's self esteem higher.
It may be cruel to say so, but I think honesty matters more than self image. The idea that a diabetic, an alcoholic, a ditch-digger or whatever group you chose will be better served not to describe what they are is a bit silly.
Maybe you need to change how you think of addicts, rather than refusing to own up to being one. It is probably easier to change your thinking than to reform the meaning of words.
It may be cruel to say so, but I think honesty matters more than self image. The idea that a diabetic, an alcoholic, a ditch-digger or whatever group you chose will be better served not to describe what they are is a bit silly.
Maybe you need to change how you think of addicts, rather than refusing to own up to being one. It is probably easier to change your thinking than to reform the meaning of words.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I like the idea of being done with alcohol for good, never craving, never drinking again no matter what. 'Cured', or 'fully and completely recovered'. And I choose to believe that I am in that group, a group that looks a whole bunch like the group that has never taken a drink, and never will.
I've looked at all the definitions I can find of the word, from sources like OED, Merriam Webster, DSM-IV, everything, and I just realized that I have this idea all wrong. I wondered if I was perverting the definition of this word to suit my particular paradigm, that I was somehow out of step with the 'real world' and in the throes of delusion. Nope, not in the least. I am not in any way physically or psychologically dependent on alcohol. Addicted? Not by any definition I can find.
If these definitions are not the accepted definition of addict, then what is? Maybe it is a useful idea for those who never really get over drinking, whose abstinence is dependent on an external requirement, but it is not useful for those who will never drink and will never change their mind. If you need to still consider yourself an addict in order to maintain your sobriety, then have at it. What is really important is that the sobriety is maintained, and however you do it, whatever works, is the best way for you.
I've looked at all the definitions I can find of the word, from sources like OED, Merriam Webster, DSM-IV, everything, and I just realized that I have this idea all wrong. I wondered if I was perverting the definition of this word to suit my particular paradigm, that I was somehow out of step with the 'real world' and in the throes of delusion. Nope, not in the least. I am not in any way physically or psychologically dependent on alcohol. Addicted? Not by any definition I can find.
If these definitions are not the accepted definition of addict, then what is? Maybe it is a useful idea for those who never really get over drinking, whose abstinence is dependent on an external requirement, but it is not useful for those who will never drink and will never change their mind. If you need to still consider yourself an addict in order to maintain your sobriety, then have at it. What is really important is that the sobriety is maintained, and however you do it, whatever works, is the best way for you.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: California
Posts: 22
Normies are also prone to becoming addicts any day or any time. Becoming an addict is no one's choice. Its just that a certain behavior or habit gets strong enough that it becomes difficult to overcome it. But accepting that one is an addict is a positive indication that s/he is ready to overcome the addiction and throw away the drugs or alcohol that one has become used to. The society, in general, and the near and dear ones, in particular, can play a major role in this.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I agree with you, Michele. I most certainly was dependent and addicted to alcohol, and therefore, I was an alcoholic. That is what alcoholic means. I am no longer dependent on alcohol, nor will I ever pick up. An alcoholic is someone who drinks alcoholically, I don't and I never will again.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
This is basically copied from an old post, but since my experience still supports it 100%, I'll say it again:
I really hate seeing the word "normal" being used in recovery circles. Personally, my own recovery has absolutely nothing to do with my wanting or trying to become "normal."
In fact, I have to say that I hate the word "normal;" I hate the ideas behind the word "normal;" I hate the apparent motivations behind the use of the word "normal;" I hate the way I've seen the desire for "normal" f*ck up some pretty good recoveries.
As it's commonly used, the word "normal" can mean either "healthy" or "common/typical/average"...but, it is often implicitly and dangerously used to mean both of those things at the same time (i.e as when someone in recovery says that he "is not like 'normal' people," or "I want to date a 'normal' person"). And that is a total mindf*ck because, as far as I can tell, those two meanings are, in actual lived-experience, utterly and absolutely contradictory.
As far as I can tell, the unfortunate truth is that what is "normal," in the sense of common, and/or average, and/or typical in this world is far, far from what is "normal" in the sense of healthy. And, based on what I see in those seriously-committed-to-recovery people I know, the the more "normal" (healthy) people become through working their recoveries, the less "normal" (typical/average/common) they are....
.....and, personally, I find that to be a good and admirable thing.....
....because when I look at what is considered, typical/average/common in the world around me, I what I see is all the dysfunction, all the lying, all the denial, all the fear, all the hatred, all the shame, all the spiritual bankruptcy, etc...etc....etc...basically, all of the insanity that is glamorized and sensationalized and conveniently packaged for our enter-and-info-tainment all day, everyday in our "normal" culture....
....and none of THAT has anything to do with MY recovery (nor is it in any way conducive to my being or becoming healthy in any way) -- other than insofar as it contributes greatly to what makes recovery necessary in the first place.
I feel like I can say with a fair amount of certainty that my HP doesn't make "normal;" My HP makes unique and special and individual and different...and my recovery is about discovering, honoring and realizing everything that HP has made me and giving all of that back to Him to use as He will; I have no intention of diminishing myself or insulting my HP by settling for or trying to conform to "normal."
freya
P.S. Not for nuthin', but:
If: Honesty is necessary for recovery.
and: Identifying as an addict (alcoholic, codependent, whatever...) is the truth, and therefore, honest.
then: Identifying as an addict is necessary for recovery.
P.P.S. Not for nuthin' part 2:
Not telling the truth about who and what I am is not ever going to help
me feel better or improve my self-esteem. If I want to feel better about
myself, I need to be doin' esteemable acts -- and, just FYI, lying or
whitewashing, sugar-coating, or misrepresenting the truth are not
esteemable acts.
I really hate seeing the word "normal" being used in recovery circles. Personally, my own recovery has absolutely nothing to do with my wanting or trying to become "normal."
In fact, I have to say that I hate the word "normal;" I hate the ideas behind the word "normal;" I hate the apparent motivations behind the use of the word "normal;" I hate the way I've seen the desire for "normal" f*ck up some pretty good recoveries.
As it's commonly used, the word "normal" can mean either "healthy" or "common/typical/average"...but, it is often implicitly and dangerously used to mean both of those things at the same time (i.e as when someone in recovery says that he "is not like 'normal' people," or "I want to date a 'normal' person"). And that is a total mindf*ck because, as far as I can tell, those two meanings are, in actual lived-experience, utterly and absolutely contradictory.
As far as I can tell, the unfortunate truth is that what is "normal," in the sense of common, and/or average, and/or typical in this world is far, far from what is "normal" in the sense of healthy. And, based on what I see in those seriously-committed-to-recovery people I know, the the more "normal" (healthy) people become through working their recoveries, the less "normal" (typical/average/common) they are....
.....and, personally, I find that to be a good and admirable thing.....
....because when I look at what is considered, typical/average/common in the world around me, I what I see is all the dysfunction, all the lying, all the denial, all the fear, all the hatred, all the shame, all the spiritual bankruptcy, etc...etc....etc...basically, all of the insanity that is glamorized and sensationalized and conveniently packaged for our enter-and-info-tainment all day, everyday in our "normal" culture....
....and none of THAT has anything to do with MY recovery (nor is it in any way conducive to my being or becoming healthy in any way) -- other than insofar as it contributes greatly to what makes recovery necessary in the first place.
I feel like I can say with a fair amount of certainty that my HP doesn't make "normal;" My HP makes unique and special and individual and different...and my recovery is about discovering, honoring and realizing everything that HP has made me and giving all of that back to Him to use as He will; I have no intention of diminishing myself or insulting my HP by settling for or trying to conform to "normal."
freya
P.S. Not for nuthin', but:
If: Honesty is necessary for recovery.
and: Identifying as an addict (alcoholic, codependent, whatever...) is the truth, and therefore, honest.
then: Identifying as an addict is necessary for recovery.
P.P.S. Not for nuthin' part 2:
Not telling the truth about who and what I am is not ever going to help
me feel better or improve my self-esteem. If I want to feel better about
myself, I need to be doin' esteemable acts -- and, just FYI, lying or
whitewashing, sugar-coating, or misrepresenting the truth are not
esteemable acts.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
P.P.P.S. Language exists for the purpose of giving members of a given linguistic community the ability to communicate with one another. The idea that I have the right to arbitrarily change the common-use meanings of certain words to suit my own self-serving ends is.... Well, it's incredibly selfish and intellectually dishonest, and cannot help but isolate me from the other members of my linguistic community and set me up to be able to justify resentment against those members who use those words in accordance with their commonly held meanings.
....hmmmmmm......isolation, resentment, selfishness, dishonesty, isolation...kinda sounds a lot like untreated alcoholism to me! And, according to the common use definition of these words in the English-speaking community, someone suffering from untreated alcoholism would accurately (and truthfully) be referred to as "an alcoholic" or, more generally, as "an addict"......just sayin'....
freya
....hmmmmmm......isolation, resentment, selfishness, dishonesty, isolation...kinda sounds a lot like untreated alcoholism to me! And, according to the common use definition of these words in the English-speaking community, someone suffering from untreated alcoholism would accurately (and truthfully) be referred to as "an alcoholic" or, more generally, as "an addict"......just sayin'....
freya
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 117
I don't like the term "normal," because it's so subjective. Everyone has some sort of issue. I do believe in the genetic predisposition to addictive behaviors, and it informs my view of myself as an alcoholic. Self-identification was the ONLY way I could begin to recover. I am not proud of it, but I'm not ashamed. I also have a genetic predisposition for autoimmune diseases (and have been diagnosed with two). I am not proud or ashamed of that, either. It is what it is, and it's up to me to take care of myself spiritually, emotionally, and physically, no matter what the illness is.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I think that part of this disconnect comes from differing views on recovery. Some think of it as a process with a number of steps that need to be made, a series of requirements that must be met before the drinking can stop. Then there are additional requirements so that drinking doesn't start up again. This does sound like an ongoing condition, and one that needs self identification as an alcoholic, a permanent label.
Others think of recovery as an event. Yesterday and before, I was addicted to alcohol. Today, tomorrow and on? No, I am no longer addicted to alcohol simply because I no longer drink. This does not need self identification as an alcoholic, and it is even detrimental to the self esteem and empowerment which are essential for this approach.
Others think of recovery as an event. Yesterday and before, I was addicted to alcohol. Today, tomorrow and on? No, I am no longer addicted to alcohol simply because I no longer drink. This does not need self identification as an alcoholic, and it is even detrimental to the self esteem and empowerment which are essential for this approach.
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