Maturing out, moderate drinking
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
Powerless, there's someone in my family who didn't drink for 30 years. He'd grown up around alcoholism and when he started drinking more than was healthy during a rough time at work, he quit. He didn't want to be like what he'd seen of alcoholism. A few years ago now he gave drinking a try and realized... he wasn't actually an alcoholic. I believe him, it's been over 6 years since he's started drinking again and he's absolutely a normal drinker.
For people like him, it's totally true that moderation can be possible after you deal with whatever it is that was making you use alcohol recklessly.
For people like me, it's absolutely not true. I don't do AA much if at all, no one's feeding me this information. I learned that myself.
For people like him, it's totally true that moderation can be possible after you deal with whatever it is that was making you use alcohol recklessly.
For people like me, it's absolutely not true. I don't do AA much if at all, no one's feeding me this information. I learned that myself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Malaga
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by zerothehero 
For what it's worth, I believe "maturing out" means having no desire to drink regardless of whether or not one believes they could drink moderately.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,426
My (in) ability to drink in moderation has nothing to do with my maturity 
I couldn't drink as an immature teen or young adult, nor as a guy in my thirties. I still can't drink that way now I'm in my 50s.
I always drank to get wasted right from the get go.
I can't develop a moderating influence I've never had.
Believe me I tried
As you playing devils advocate here Powerless or do you really think some of us will one day be able to drink 'normally'?
D
I couldn't drink as an immature teen or young adult, nor as a guy in my thirties. I still can't drink that way now I'm in my 50s.
I always drank to get wasted right from the get go.
I can't develop a moderating influence I've never had.
Believe me I tried
As you playing devils advocate here Powerless or do you really think some of us will one day be able to drink 'normally'?
D
Mini Novel Post Writer
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Had to add this to the thread. Consider yourself forewarned.
17 months of sobriety, made the decision that I was probably ok to drink because, well, with what alcohol had done to me in the past there was no way I was going to not be careful this time. Sound familiar? I would always be mindful of how much I had and how I was acting.
Never drank during the week.
Rarely ever went to bars at night. I think in the 19 months I was out I went maybe 3 times and I always left by 10 or 11.
In bed most nights, including Friday and Saturday between 9 and 10. Sometimes sooner. Always no later than 11.
Left alcohol behind at friend's houses because I knew I had to drive. I knew I could stop on the way home and get more for when I was safe and wouldn't be behind the wheel.
Went out on St Patrick's Day from 2 to 4 at a bar with a few friends and left before the crazy crowd arrived.
Rarely had any words with my husband. He would just sleep in the back bedroom when I was drinking because he couldn't stand the smell of the beer. He hasn't drank since May of 2013. Not alcoholic, just purely by choice.
Always called a service that would come and get you and bring you and your car home if there was any question in my mind. Or I took a cab or got a ride. Big old pat on my back for keeping myself in check for that. Right.
Here's what I didn't count on. We assume that our control over alcohol is our conscious mind. That as long as we are aware of when that line of "I have to be careful" and "who cares?" is not crossed that we'll be just fine. We have this beat.
Really?
On Mother's Day I went to a restaurant to drop off a book and have a few drinks with friends. I had 2 or 3. I don't remember, and not because I wasn't aware but I knew that more than three and I wasn't driving. I was there for a while. There was a ton of leftover food from this high end buffet that they were having and it was all going to be tossed. My friends and I discussed how sad that was with all the homeless people at the shelter intown standing around. Guess who volunteered to bring it in there if the restaurant would give it to us? Yup, me. We packaged everything up and put it in my car. I was fine. Had a minimal buzz at that point. Here's my stupidity. I had nothing to eat that day. Plans for take out for dinner. I rarely drink hard stuff, beer is what I like. I had 2 or three very small drinks called Lemon Drops. I have no excuse, I should have been mindful of the not eating and the fact that it was hard stuff. I barely tasted any alcohol in the drink.
Either way, I texted my husband and told him where I was headed and I'd be home right after. I was fine driving along and then I got intown. The next thing I know I woke up on the concrete floor of the detox unit of the jail. No knowledge and entirely confused.
Someday I'll tell you the rest but I can't now. No one died but they certainly could have.
The whole point is my conscious decision of not crossing the line was not even a factor. My body can't process alcohol anymore. Those dranks sat in me and had barely any effect and all of a sudden I blacked out. No fair warning. It had nothing to do with my thoughts. My body took over.
You roll the dice the numbers will not always be in your favor. You say you can drink moderately. So did I. My outcome had nothing to do with my choice to control myself. I went from aware and awake to nowhere in a split second. It's pretty scary.
If you don't play with fire you won't get burnt. Point blank.
17 months of sobriety, made the decision that I was probably ok to drink because, well, with what alcohol had done to me in the past there was no way I was going to not be careful this time. Sound familiar? I would always be mindful of how much I had and how I was acting.
Never drank during the week.
Rarely ever went to bars at night. I think in the 19 months I was out I went maybe 3 times and I always left by 10 or 11.
In bed most nights, including Friday and Saturday between 9 and 10. Sometimes sooner. Always no later than 11.
Left alcohol behind at friend's houses because I knew I had to drive. I knew I could stop on the way home and get more for when I was safe and wouldn't be behind the wheel.
Went out on St Patrick's Day from 2 to 4 at a bar with a few friends and left before the crazy crowd arrived.
Rarely had any words with my husband. He would just sleep in the back bedroom when I was drinking because he couldn't stand the smell of the beer. He hasn't drank since May of 2013. Not alcoholic, just purely by choice.
Always called a service that would come and get you and bring you and your car home if there was any question in my mind. Or I took a cab or got a ride. Big old pat on my back for keeping myself in check for that. Right.
Here's what I didn't count on. We assume that our control over alcohol is our conscious mind. That as long as we are aware of when that line of "I have to be careful" and "who cares?" is not crossed that we'll be just fine. We have this beat.
Really?
On Mother's Day I went to a restaurant to drop off a book and have a few drinks with friends. I had 2 or 3. I don't remember, and not because I wasn't aware but I knew that more than three and I wasn't driving. I was there for a while. There was a ton of leftover food from this high end buffet that they were having and it was all going to be tossed. My friends and I discussed how sad that was with all the homeless people at the shelter intown standing around. Guess who volunteered to bring it in there if the restaurant would give it to us? Yup, me. We packaged everything up and put it in my car. I was fine. Had a minimal buzz at that point. Here's my stupidity. I had nothing to eat that day. Plans for take out for dinner. I rarely drink hard stuff, beer is what I like. I had 2 or three very small drinks called Lemon Drops. I have no excuse, I should have been mindful of the not eating and the fact that it was hard stuff. I barely tasted any alcohol in the drink.
Either way, I texted my husband and told him where I was headed and I'd be home right after. I was fine driving along and then I got intown. The next thing I know I woke up on the concrete floor of the detox unit of the jail. No knowledge and entirely confused.
Someday I'll tell you the rest but I can't now. No one died but they certainly could have.
The whole point is my conscious decision of not crossing the line was not even a factor. My body can't process alcohol anymore. Those dranks sat in me and had barely any effect and all of a sudden I blacked out. No fair warning. It had nothing to do with my thoughts. My body took over.
You roll the dice the numbers will not always be in your favor. You say you can drink moderately. So did I. My outcome had nothing to do with my choice to control myself. I went from aware and awake to nowhere in a split second. It's pretty scary.
If you don't play with fire you won't get burnt. Point blank.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: northern california
Posts: 740
LadyBlue sobering story for sure and I wish you all the best moving forward. I know every day sober is what counts the most but 17 months sober is not a safe point in recovery. As a graduate of cdrp Kaiser program until you get to 2 years sober you are in danger of relapse.
I drank after 23 years sober and some would say I was lucky I did not get into trouble I do not agree. I knew when I needed to quit again and I have.
There is a saying in recovery do not kill yourself before 5 years sober, because it takes years for some of us before we really know who we are.
I drank after 23 years sober and some would say I was lucky I did not get into trouble I do not agree. I knew when I needed to quit again and I have.
There is a saying in recovery do not kill yourself before 5 years sober, because it takes years for some of us before we really know who we are.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by Powerless1957
it can also mean that one is less immature and now able to enjoy a drink in moderation like most people do.....
her story can be found on the web.
im sorry you feel all of us who chose not to try moderation are immature.
i read lots of mature,responsable people on this forum who would rather not play russian roullette any more.
p.s.
theres millions of people who have never drank and enjoy life,too.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
We can kind of go round and round with this, but basically everyone is different. Some people could maybe return to moderation, and others would be taking a huge risk. All I know is the first time I quit drinking (1992) I lasted a year. When I started drinking again it didn't take long to return to excess. I quit I don't know how many times for 21 years after that, every time thinking I could return to moderation. Never lasted long, and I quit an average of maybe once or twice a year for two decades for between two weeks and six months before things started spiraling out of control. No thanks. I'm done. Have your fun with or without alcohol. I wish you well either way. But I'm in my 50's and I don't trust myself to "mature out." Experience and neuroscience have taught me it really has nothing to do with maturity or lack thereof.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,426
audrey kishline thought this.
her story can be found on the web.
her story can be found on the web.
She had long abandoned Moderation Management and attempts at moderation when the accident happened.
Hers is the cautionary tale for everyone who's ever thought 'this time will be different' or 'I'm ok to drive'.
but...I give up.
If people want to make Kishline a moderation cautionary tale, I obviously can't stop it.
Maybe that way I hope some good might come from out her tragedy and her eventual death.
The irony is I could give you all several names of SR members who *were* trying to moderate - and are no longer here to tell the tale.
D
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 1,021
Originally Posted by tomsteve
audrey kishline thought this.
her story can be found on the web.
im sorry you feel all of us who chose not to try moderation are immature.
i read lots of mature,responsable people on this forum who would rather not play russian roullette any more.
p.s.
theres millions of people who have never drank and enjoy life,too.
But, I don't blame AA for her behavior.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I m so glad I got the moderation experiments over with early. In fact they were the first things I tried. Abysmal failures every one. I have the body of an alcoholic. It reacts differently to other people when alcohol is introduced. I don't know of any evidence to suggest that this goes away with time. I have never seen any proof of that.
But I have seen what Powerless seesm to be talking about. I have seen people leave AA and drink moderately. But I would explain it a different way. Not everyone that comes to AA is alcoholic. That is a fact. Our rooms are full of mental health patients, and lonely hearts, people with life problems etc etc. We no longer qualify them as alcoholics. As long as they have a desire to stop drinking, they are in. A potential mother inlaw, on finding out her daughter was involved with me, hid away in a hotel for three days and drank alcoholically. Treating her shock I guess. Lot's of people do that to a greater or lesser extent, at the time they look alcoholic, but when the issue is resolved, they resume normal service. There is always going to be a good number of people walking out of AA and drinking normally.
On the otherhand, I have seen alcholics of my type relapse after considerable lengths of sobriety. My friend Zac is one example. 10 years sober, dead in three months. Another, Roger, 17 years sober, dead in 6 moths, three months of that in alcoholic hell in hospital, probably the most awful death I have witnessed.
Zac makes a pretty good example of alcoholism. He called everyone he could think of after he picked up. I thought, as did others, that his ten years of AA (he was a popular guy) would be a big help. We couldn't have been more wrong. It was like his AA hard drive hade been wiped. Nothing remained of his sober experience, it was like he had never been sober. A switch had been thrown.
I would hate to be responsible for throwing that switch. Trying to convince someone like Zac that he could drink moderately is just about the lowest thing anyone could do. He couldnt. An army of AA and professionals rallied round to try and save him. They could not, they were powerless to prevent his death.
But I have seen what Powerless seesm to be talking about. I have seen people leave AA and drink moderately. But I would explain it a different way. Not everyone that comes to AA is alcoholic. That is a fact. Our rooms are full of mental health patients, and lonely hearts, people with life problems etc etc. We no longer qualify them as alcoholics. As long as they have a desire to stop drinking, they are in. A potential mother inlaw, on finding out her daughter was involved with me, hid away in a hotel for three days and drank alcoholically. Treating her shock I guess. Lot's of people do that to a greater or lesser extent, at the time they look alcoholic, but when the issue is resolved, they resume normal service. There is always going to be a good number of people walking out of AA and drinking normally.
On the otherhand, I have seen alcholics of my type relapse after considerable lengths of sobriety. My friend Zac is one example. 10 years sober, dead in three months. Another, Roger, 17 years sober, dead in 6 moths, three months of that in alcoholic hell in hospital, probably the most awful death I have witnessed.
Zac makes a pretty good example of alcoholism. He called everyone he could think of after he picked up. I thought, as did others, that his ten years of AA (he was a popular guy) would be a big help. We couldn't have been more wrong. It was like his AA hard drive hade been wiped. Nothing remained of his sober experience, it was like he had never been sober. A switch had been thrown.
I would hate to be responsible for throwing that switch. Trying to convince someone like Zac that he could drink moderately is just about the lowest thing anyone could do. He couldnt. An army of AA and professionals rallied round to try and save him. They could not, they were powerless to prevent his death.
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