What is a 'Dry Drunk'?
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Originally Posted by itsthesecret 
I don't like the term dry drunk, it was probably invented by someone angry with the behaviour of someone in recovery.
In "Staying Sober," Terence T. Gorski writes:
"A very serious PAW ("Post Acute Withdrawal") problem though perhaps not as common as the others is difficulty with physical coordination. Common symptoms are dizziness, trouble with balance, problems with coordination between hand and eye, and slow reflexes. These result in clumsiness and accident proneness. This is how the term dry drunk came into being. When alcoholics appeared drunk because of stumbling and clumsiness, but had not been drinking, they were said to be dry drunk. They had the appearance of being intoxicated without drinking."
Setting aside for the present discussion whether we believe everything Terence Gorski says regarding PAW, this would seem to make sense.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by JTele
So, please allow for me to pose this question: What is an alcoholic classified as when he/she quits drinking without changing his/her attitude or lifestyle or without the help of AA or other recovery programs, but they're now discovering peace, solitude, and happiness in the fact that not drinking has become a true blessing within their own personal well being?
That said, I am of the belief that abstinence is a fact unto itself, not necessarily contingent on anything else in any way, and that given time, continued abstinence leads to full recovery.
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Originally Posted by JohnBarleycorn
I believe the term was once used to describe a real phenomenon, before it was completely bastardized.
In "Staying Sober," Terence T. Gorski writes:
In "Staying Sober," Terence T. Gorski writes:
"A very serious PAW ("Post Acute Withdrawal") problem though perhaps not as common as the others is difficulty with physical coordination. Common symptoms are dizziness, trouble with balance, problems with coordination between hand and eye, and slow reflexes. These result in clumsiness and accident proneness. This is how the term dry drunk came into being. When alcoholics appeared drunk because of stumbling and clumsiness, but had not been drinking, they were said to be dry drunk. They had the appearance of being intoxicated without drinking."
Setting aside for the present discussion whether we believe everything Terence Gorski says regarding PAW, this would seem to make sense.
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After rereading the Terence Gorski excerpt I will recind what I said about the "wet brain". Although as far as the physical impairedness being similiar I think a "dry drunk" as used by Gorski is not irrepairable.
That being said, obviously the term was used in the past to describe a deeply depressed person who was abstinent after being an alcoholic, I think the term has morphed into a way to describe an alcoholic who is abstaining but not doing it through the AA 12 step method. So maybe the term does serve a purpose when it refers to what Gorski was describing, but usually when it is used it is derogatory to judge someones method of recovery.
That being said, obviously the term was used in the past to describe a deeply depressed person who was abstinent after being an alcoholic, I think the term has morphed into a way to describe an alcoholic who is abstaining but not doing it through the AA 12 step method. So maybe the term does serve a purpose when it refers to what Gorski was describing, but usually when it is used it is derogatory to judge someones method of recovery.
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As the wife of a RAH, I have asked many questions & have done lots of research on this topic. And have found, basically the same answers as all of you have wrote.
My RAH, went to rehab, AA, and had a sponsor. His attitude was great for about 3 days after rehab. He struggled with work issues, personal hygeine, etc. Then he relapsed after the 3rd week home. He then packed up and moved away. He was a very heavy whiskey drinker for alot of years.
He moved away with fantasy's of:
Having the perfect family
The wife will move here with me
Hes too busy working and dont need AA or a sponsor
Everything is in the past and my wife should be all over it now
Reality Check List for "ME" & me only: Is he a dry drunk?
He is back to demanding if we are still going to stay married or not.
He is back to beating me up mentally about having wedding vows, I married him for better or worse.
He is back to saying mean things
He is back to having anxiety, depression, low self esteem
He is back to the poor old me syndrome
He is back to mentally beating me up over the kids and trying to turn them
against me.
He is back to lying to everyone. "Everything is Great"
He is back to the same old behaviors, attitudes as if he was drinking again.
Reality Check List for "ME" & me only: Is it Recovery?
To me someone in recovery would be grateful to even have wedding vows left
To me someone in recovery would walk gracefully with the family & accept the
fact that damage has been to done to the kids, and pray that someday they will forgive and come back around.
To me someone in recovery would be nice with their words
To me someone in recovery would not accuse your wife of sleeping with the town
To me someone in recovery would work hard on repairing themselves physically and mentally.
To me someone in recovery would take action on changing their behaviors, instead of just talking about it or getting pissed off if the spouse even brings it up.
OMG..I could go on with my funny little list....
Dry Drunk vs Abstitence vs Post Acute Withdrawal vs Wet Brain
I dont know which name to pick, that best describes my RAH. I guess, when your
the spouse or a loved one, I think alot of us do the scavenger hunt online, trying to find the cure, the name, the cause, the diesase of our loved ones....
For an example, if you a loved one, with brain cancer. Most people would be online trying to figure out exactly what it is and how it can be cured. Before they went to the doctor on Monday morning. Then they would be back online trying to collect information on what diets they should be on, or how did they get brain cancer...Humans always want to know the cure of any sickness or diesases. Unless your one of those all natural people who dont believe in doctors.
Another example, that I think of is "over weight" people. Think of how many names that word has. But at the end, it all weighs the same....
Dry Drunk vs Abstitence vs Post Acute Withdrawal vs Wet Brain
My thoughts: It's a horrible diesase, no matter what you call it....
My RAH, went to rehab, AA, and had a sponsor. His attitude was great for about 3 days after rehab. He struggled with work issues, personal hygeine, etc. Then he relapsed after the 3rd week home. He then packed up and moved away. He was a very heavy whiskey drinker for alot of years.
He moved away with fantasy's of:
Having the perfect family
The wife will move here with me
Hes too busy working and dont need AA or a sponsor
Everything is in the past and my wife should be all over it now
Reality Check List for "ME" & me only: Is he a dry drunk?
He is back to demanding if we are still going to stay married or not.
He is back to beating me up mentally about having wedding vows, I married him for better or worse.
He is back to saying mean things
He is back to having anxiety, depression, low self esteem
He is back to the poor old me syndrome
He is back to mentally beating me up over the kids and trying to turn them
against me.
He is back to lying to everyone. "Everything is Great"
He is back to the same old behaviors, attitudes as if he was drinking again.
Reality Check List for "ME" & me only: Is it Recovery?
To me someone in recovery would be grateful to even have wedding vows left
To me someone in recovery would walk gracefully with the family & accept the
fact that damage has been to done to the kids, and pray that someday they will forgive and come back around.
To me someone in recovery would be nice with their words
To me someone in recovery would not accuse your wife of sleeping with the town
To me someone in recovery would work hard on repairing themselves physically and mentally.
To me someone in recovery would take action on changing their behaviors, instead of just talking about it or getting pissed off if the spouse even brings it up.
OMG..I could go on with my funny little list....
Dry Drunk vs Abstitence vs Post Acute Withdrawal vs Wet Brain
I dont know which name to pick, that best describes my RAH. I guess, when your
the spouse or a loved one, I think alot of us do the scavenger hunt online, trying to find the cure, the name, the cause, the diesase of our loved ones....
For an example, if you a loved one, with brain cancer. Most people would be online trying to figure out exactly what it is and how it can be cured. Before they went to the doctor on Monday morning. Then they would be back online trying to collect information on what diets they should be on, or how did they get brain cancer...Humans always want to know the cure of any sickness or diesases. Unless your one of those all natural people who dont believe in doctors.
Another example, that I think of is "over weight" people. Think of how many names that word has. But at the end, it all weighs the same....
Dry Drunk vs Abstitence vs Post Acute Withdrawal vs Wet Brain
My thoughts: It's a horrible diesase, no matter what you call it....
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Originally Posted by Chops
Then I guess someone using the term in the halls of AA would be ridiculous unless they have MD, MS, LDAC or PhD at the end of their name. If it is a medical term used by professionals to diagnose then it would be a like a laymen looking at someone and saying.... mmmmm it looks like they have bipolar disorder.
And if it is a person who is exhibiting the same behaviors as when they were drinking one would have had to observe the "dry drunk" when he was drinking to make the correlation. We don't all act the same way drunk.
I have never heard the term used to simply describe in a medical manner what is wrong with someone. My experience is that it is used as a put down by people who are too elevated to simply admit they that don't like someone. YMMV.........
OTOH If someone wants to call themselves a dry drunk, that is their business.
And if it is a person who is exhibiting the same behaviors as when they were drinking one would have had to observe the "dry drunk" when he was drinking to make the correlation. We don't all act the same way drunk.
I have never heard the term used to simply describe in a medical manner what is wrong with someone. My experience is that it is used as a put down by people who are too elevated to simply admit they that don't like someone. YMMV.........
OTOH If someone wants to call themselves a dry drunk, that is their business.
And what has acting differently when drunk got to do with it? Its nothing to do with being drunk it is the behaviour the alcoholic exhibits when not drinking...if you are an alcoholic and just stop drinking then most behvaiours stay the same...if you don't believe me why don't you go and ask the people in family and friends section...
I can't work out whether you are winding me up or are serious with your reply?!
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by justdave
Dry Drunk, please explain? My wife said I was a dry drunk. I don't quite know why or what that is. She said it was something her therapist called me. Her therapist has never met me, so I don't know why.
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 228
Not to be beating a dead horse here, but I just find it interesting that many folks seem to have a fairly-well defined meaning of the term based upon their own viewpoints while others clearly dismiss the term altogether. My initial experience with the term "dry drunk" first happened to me when I arrived at SR, and while one or two members didn't come out directly to label others or myself as such, it was clearly insinuated. It's not that I really care, for I feel that I've been making the best attempt necessary to find the path I've needed to take to ensure sobriety for the remainder of my life. Of course, that truly remains to be seen, but I'm giving it my best shot!
In the end, I'm quite certain that the term really isn't that important at all when considering the larger scheme of things - that is, to reach full sobriety and recovery - but for some of us newbies who've never heard of the term before, a thread such as this one does have some value in helping us to clarify just how many varying camps of thought exist here.
In the end, I'm quite certain that the term really isn't that important at all when considering the larger scheme of things - that is, to reach full sobriety and recovery - but for some of us newbies who've never heard of the term before, a thread such as this one does have some value in helping us to clarify just how many varying camps of thought exist here.
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I am happy "surrender" worked well
The sufering real alcoholic who reads these forums, needs to be clear what's being read.
It's not a ego thing or weakness in charactor to surrender, to alcohol.
It's simple, surrender or die, to alcohol.
Long live alcohol, woopee
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Originally Posted by yeahgr8
Unless you have been to the above medical professionals as i have in my real life experience and have any real life experience to post then all this is your opinion and you are entitled to it...
And what has acting differently when drunk got to do with it? Its nothing to do with being drunk it is the behaviour the alcoholic exhibits when not drinking...if you are an alcoholic and just stop drinking then most behvaiours stay the same...if you don't believe me why don't you go and ask the people in family and friends section...
I can't work out whether you are winding me up or are serious with your reply?!
And what has acting differently when drunk got to do with it? Its nothing to do with being drunk it is the behaviour the alcoholic exhibits when not drinking...if you are an alcoholic and just stop drinking then most behvaiours stay the same...if you don't believe me why don't you go and ask the people in family and friends section...
I can't work out whether you are winding me up or are serious with your reply?!
My reply is serious but at the same time if I am rigorously honest then I must admit to trying to "wind you up" as you say.
To answer your question, you stated a "dry drunk" is a person that exhibits the same behavior sober as being drunk. So knowing what a person acts likes drunk has everything to do with it. In my experience we drunks come in all shapes and sizes and yes, with different behaviors. As for me, when I "justed stopped drinking" allot of my behaviors changed. I have not yet urinated in the workplace trashcan, woke up in the ER with no recollection of how I got there or stolen from my family sober. I do not need to go to the family and friends section, my family can testify to the fact that the minute I stopped drinking their life improved. Least of all my poor mother who slept with cellphone in bed waiting to hear that I was finally dead.
Some of the other stuff, I won't call them behaviors but thoughts and feelings, have been helped by reading the BB, steps and outside literature, namely Tolle.
Slightly off topic but I love how the phrase "just stopped drinking" is sometimes used as if that is an easy thing to do. Because for me the physical withdrawl was a living nightmare. Maybe thats why I have this reaction when I hear someone say "oh all he did was just stop drinking."
Meh, in the end I just have seen the term used by people that always seem to think they are better than others, a pet peeve if you will. But I cannot get beyond as Dee said me being satisfied with just myself not using the term but I feel the need through discussion or argument to try and change others opinion of whether or not they should use it.
I guess my job in my recovery is start staying out of these conversations, especially on the internet. I have not been able to do that quite yet, especially when you post which is why I got to take a look at myself and that resentment against you that I have.
PS I have been to all of the above medical professionals and then some..... none of what they had to say helped, the only doctor I needed was Silkworth and the only counselors I needed where found in AA and they wanted neither my insurance card nor my money.
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Originally Posted by Pete55
No supercrew, it's, "I am happy surrender worked well", literally.
The sufering real alcoholic who reads these forums, needs to be clear what's being read.
It's not a ego thing or weakness in charactor to surrender, to alcohol.
It's simple, surrender or die, to alcohol.
Long live alcohol, woopee
The sufering real alcoholic who reads these forums, needs to be clear what's being read.
It's not a ego thing or weakness in charactor to surrender, to alcohol.
It's simple, surrender or die, to alcohol.
Long live alcohol, woopee
Believe it or not many "real alcoholics" just quit drinking and survive Pete. And it has nothing to do with ego or weakness of character.
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I have used the term Dry Drunk on rare occasions, and will continue to use it when it seems appropriate to me. In some circles it's shorthand for the long description I posted on this thread earlier, and people know instantly what's being referred to. So, it's a useful term in communication.
Some here believe it's used by AAs to denote non-AAs, but I've not heard that useage. Sober non-AAs are called non-AAs by AAs. If the non-AA or the AA member fits the description then that's when the term is used. If you happen to hear it a whole lot in reference to yourself, then take that for what it's worth.
Some here believe it's used by AAs to denote non-AAs, but I've not heard that useage. Sober non-AAs are called non-AAs by AAs. If the non-AA or the AA member fits the description then that's when the term is used. If you happen to hear it a whole lot in reference to yourself, then take that for what it's worth.
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Originally Posted by Mark75
Is quitting (drinking) the same thing as surrendering? If not, what are the differences?
This was no easy task and I battled for a long time to finally beat the conscious and subconcious thought process that kept bringing me back to drinking after trying to quit on my own over and over. I was in a death spiral, until I found SR and really took an active approach by looking for information, support, and a plan. So I have a hard time saying I surrendered, because to be honest I fought and worked hard to get where I am today....happily sober after 27 years of drinking.
I like to think I am winning the battle, and alcohol will never play a part in my life again. "Surrender's" negative connotation bring with it the thoughts of losing. I am not losing anything, I am gaining my life back.
But surrender is a synonym for quit, so you would be correct.
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Hey, Thanx for your thoughtful reply!!
It took me A LOT of work to get to where I could surrender (quit) as well... Yea, that's one of those paradoxes one stumbles upon in "AA speak"... "You've got to surrender to win..." LOL... oh yeah, we win when we quit fighting, not lose
We have much more in common that we do differences!
It took me A LOT of work to get to where I could surrender (quit) as well... Yea, that's one of those paradoxes one stumbles upon in "AA speak"... "You've got to surrender to win..." LOL... oh yeah, we win when we quit fighting, not lose
We have much more in common that we do differences!
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I agree Mark, and as I have posted before, by me taking part in these threads I'm just staying active and interested in the forum. Certain threads make me think and I find them interesting so I post my view.
By staying active and interested in the board it keeps me active in my recovery, so I apologize if it comes off as being argumentative. Most of the time I am just trying to understand other POV's and then I am trying to put thought provoking posts back out. Obviously I have put my beliefs out there already that I am from the "do it yourself" school of recovery methods, but I am not anti any program, and I love the discussions because they make me think and they keep me active.
Thanks for your post!
By staying active and interested in the board it keeps me active in my recovery, so I apologize if it comes off as being argumentative. Most of the time I am just trying to understand other POV's and then I am trying to put thought provoking posts back out. Obviously I have put my beliefs out there already that I am from the "do it yourself" school of recovery methods, but I am not anti any program, and I love the discussions because they make me think and they keep me active.
Thanks for your post!
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Originally Posted by Pete55
No supercrew, it's, "I am happy surrender worked well", literally.
The sufering real alcoholic who reads these forums, needs to be clear what's being read.
It's not a ego thing or weakness in charactor to surrender, to alcohol.
It's simple, surrender or die, to alcohol.
Long live alcohol, woopee
The sufering real alcoholic who reads these forums, needs to be clear what's being read.
It's not a ego thing or weakness in charactor to surrender, to alcohol.
It's simple, surrender or die, to alcohol.
Long live alcohol, woopee
Still, while I can understand surrender of alcohol, why would anyone want to surrender to alcohol?
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After taking a look at some of the comments here, I am seeing some evidence of how phrases like Dry Drunk can become contentious. And it does go beyond the label itself, it also extends into one's approach and even how one should be defined. I've been involved in a few scrums over them. Real Alcoholic is one that really gnaws at people too. Not too distant from that are the specific resentments we tie to things like religion or any kind of group-based experience that involves some kind of adherence by individuals.
I was just thinking today that I may have reached a point where I don't give a hoot about all these things that can be so painful. (What do you MEAN I must not be a Real Alcoholic? What do you MEAN I need a spiritual awakening? What do you MEAN I am not recovering but merely sober because I haven't done the Steps? What do you MEAN I can't do it without God-belief of some type? What do you MEAN I have to obliterate my SELF in order to be recovered, I have enough self-esteem problems as it is!) Those are all examples of the reactions I am used to seeing in others or myself.
All that stuff is additional existential toxicity if we let it be that way. The reality is I can falter any day of the week and any year of the remaining years I have left to live. It's just real. It's also a reality that I know how to give and take, to grant concessions on some things, to turn back and reclaim ownership of things I want to believe. There have been ups and downs for me. Sometimes I blame myself, sometimes I think it's just the way it goes.
Insofar as I am starting to make some history for myself as a post-drinker (not drinking for more than a year now), I AM doing something right. So I don't really HAVE to worry about whether I am going to fit the bill for Real Alcoholic or whether I am doing it the right way, whether I am kidding myself, blah blah all the way through the grocery list of things that bug us. The only person who can take away what I have done for myself - short of someone armed shoving alcohol down my throat - is MYSELF. I'm in the land of choice now, as someone who no longer drinks because he can't do it properly (ie, alcoholic). I'm in the right when I don't drink. All the theorizing in the world is not going to change the fact that I am on to something. If someone thinks (with some degree of audacity) that I am not really an alcoholic then, well, that's not my problem. I know what I used to do; I know now I've got what I've got; and I know I continue look at myself often. So why would I want to MAKE it my problem by trying to take on all the other opinions?
We'll see how long I can apply my own suggestion. I've gone back on it before. But maybe I am onto something if I stop even getting involved in these topics. Why spend my energy on it? I don't know. I'm not used to being this simple. I'm used to locating problems and analyzing -and maybe arguing. Well, maybe I should cut it out when it comes to this area of my life, and just count on myself to know when my behaviour is not conducive to staying on track.
I was just thinking today that I may have reached a point where I don't give a hoot about all these things that can be so painful. (What do you MEAN I must not be a Real Alcoholic? What do you MEAN I need a spiritual awakening? What do you MEAN I am not recovering but merely sober because I haven't done the Steps? What do you MEAN I can't do it without God-belief of some type? What do you MEAN I have to obliterate my SELF in order to be recovered, I have enough self-esteem problems as it is!) Those are all examples of the reactions I am used to seeing in others or myself.
All that stuff is additional existential toxicity if we let it be that way. The reality is I can falter any day of the week and any year of the remaining years I have left to live. It's just real. It's also a reality that I know how to give and take, to grant concessions on some things, to turn back and reclaim ownership of things I want to believe. There have been ups and downs for me. Sometimes I blame myself, sometimes I think it's just the way it goes.
Insofar as I am starting to make some history for myself as a post-drinker (not drinking for more than a year now), I AM doing something right. So I don't really HAVE to worry about whether I am going to fit the bill for Real Alcoholic or whether I am doing it the right way, whether I am kidding myself, blah blah all the way through the grocery list of things that bug us. The only person who can take away what I have done for myself - short of someone armed shoving alcohol down my throat - is MYSELF. I'm in the land of choice now, as someone who no longer drinks because he can't do it properly (ie, alcoholic). I'm in the right when I don't drink. All the theorizing in the world is not going to change the fact that I am on to something. If someone thinks (with some degree of audacity) that I am not really an alcoholic then, well, that's not my problem. I know what I used to do; I know now I've got what I've got; and I know I continue look at myself often. So why would I want to MAKE it my problem by trying to take on all the other opinions?
We'll see how long I can apply my own suggestion. I've gone back on it before. But maybe I am onto something if I stop even getting involved in these topics. Why spend my energy on it? I don't know. I'm not used to being this simple. I'm used to locating problems and analyzing -and maybe arguing. Well, maybe I should cut it out when it comes to this area of my life, and just count on myself to know when my behaviour is not conducive to staying on track.
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Supercrew & Toronto.....first, just let me say that I really appreciate your comments. While it may not seem as though your input is useful, it really is.....at least to me. I'm still relatively new at this sobriety thing with only six weeks of being sober, but I must say that your comments only reinforces the kind of drive or will or necessity that I've needed in order for me to quit drinking, and I essentially came to SR to find this very same kind of support. Of course, this is a very diverse group here, but that's quite all right. All I really know for certain is that I had a serious issue that I needed to seriously put behind me in favor of positive gains in my life, and quitting drinking in its entirety was exactly what I needed to do no matter how difficult it was to do it. I don't care about the terminology, either, nor do I care if others do care about it; the important thing is to become sober so that we can start living our lives as it was meant be lived.
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