Oncorhynchus

Hi All,

I'm brand new to this one so forgive me if it’s a stupid one. I am undoubtedly a problem drinker. The wreckage of the past is there, and I am currently working on it with my sponsor right now. The sweeping of my side of the street might need an industrial strength street-sweeper, but I'm getting there!

However, now that I decided to go to AA on my own will (i.e. not getting a paper signed) I have come across much animosity from many of the old timers the second that I mention that I have also recently suffered from the afflictions that come from the needle. This was personally my bottom, and I never thought I would get there. It’s very heartbreaking and the addiction, in my opinion is infinitely worse than I ever had in my 15 years of regular and heavy binge drinking. The slavery to the addiction is awful and the lies to the family still bring tears to my eyes.

I am undoubtedly an alcoholic, but this alcoholism had turned me into a drug addict as well. Many still argue that the two are different, that’s fine, I hold a PhD in pharmacology, so I won’t get into the semantics. My main problem comes with the AA/NA identity crisis.

When I was a teenager and screwing around with alcohol and crashing cars, I also caught a few minor possession cases. The counselor that I had at the time (also a recovering alcoholic) recommended that I go to AA instead of NA that was walking distance from my college dorm. Obviously, the student wasn’t ready at that time.
Only now do I see why this was recommended. There are plenty of men and women showing ES&H, and about 50% of them are poly-abusers as myself. The relapse rate has shown to be lower among folks that only use alcohol, and my sobriety is grim with opiate recovery, so I lucked out finding a great AA group that accepts me. I don’t want to talk down about either group, but I really enjoy AA as I hope to pass on my experience of what continued uncontrolled alcoholism can lead to (i.e. heroin) but I continue to get dirty looks and snickers.
Where should I be? I am an alcoholic, but the alcoholism turned on something that sent me into the abyss of heroin. I don’t like NA, and frankly the NA text is a flagrant plagiarism of Alcoholics Anonymous’ Big Book. Should I continue at AA, and not be scared to share my stories about the needle? Should I go to NA, and not enjoy it and possibly relapse?
I’m still a little lost here, and my sobriety and spiritual growth are of upmost importance to me. I just don’t want to get jaded by the old-timers at AA or the “boomerangs” at NA.
Thanks!

Taking5

A few thoughts here. First the plagiarism that NA did from the AA book was voted on by AA and approved in 1953. So it was an "allowed" plagiarism.

On the AA oldtimers/purists, many of them believe that AA is for alcoholics only and that you should only talk about alcoholism at AA meetings. You could (if you are comfortable) at meeting say "I'm _____ and I'm an alcoholic" instead of "I'm _____ and I'm an alcoholic and an addict", just to keep a lower profile. Also, maybe keeo your sharing focused on how you got better as opposed to "war stories" that include details of what drug got you to your own version of hell. These types of details are often triggers for others and can sometimes best be shared one-on-one with your sponsor if need be.

I'm glad you found a group that is more accepting of dual or poly addicted people. Ultimately I would be where I am more comfortable in my sobriety and it sounds like this new group.

Oncorhynchus

I definately dont like to share the war-sories. I keep those with my sponsor and the few friends that I have met in the meetings, but I feel a different "vibe" in the NA meetings. In my own experience, I drank as it was a drug, and I drugged as a drug. So why is there such anymosity toward the drug-addicted, whereas the alcoholic is more accepted in AA in general. I know its in the traditions, but as times change, I dont want to see kids shy away from AA to only get into chaotic NA groups. (There are many where I live now - and the drug dealers actually wait for the meetings to get out)... Its horrible!

I jumped around fellowships, until I lucked out with my home group, but I hate to see kids dropping into oblivion by being scared to show up, or extend a hand at an AA meeting, because they feel bottom-of-the-barrel...
I have done worst things (and forgotten I had done them) while drinking than I ever did with opiates... Yet the stigma still stands, even to the point that its acceptable to say "I'm a member of AA" but many, including myself have apprehention to say "I'm a member of NA". Both fellowships are seeking the same spiritual experience, and in the Big Book it states that alcohol was but a symptome. There has got to be something more to why we do the things we do (i.e. resentments, fears, all of the other good stuff on our inventories). AA is such a great program, but I dont like seeing kids being chased out of AA meetings when I'm traveling by someone taking their inventory. It really gets on me, because I know how it feels to be ostracized...

onlythetruth

When I was in AA, I sponsored a woman who was definitely an alcoholic, but whose primary addiction was to cocaine. She did not like NA; in our area there was little recovery at the NA meetings. So she hung around AA and learned to label herself "an alcoholic" and not talk too much about her cocaine habit.

The only problem was that she simply could not give an honest lead without mentioning her cocaine addiction: it was part of "what happened" to her. So, when she'd lead, it was not unusual for a big group of--I don't know what to call them, purists?--to get up and walk out the door, muttering loudly about "junkies" and "druggies" and "primary purpose".

It was a terrible situation for her but I give her all the credit in the world for hanging in there and maintaining her truth in the midst of what can only be described as hazing. And every time she told her story, someone came up to her and thanked her for being brave enough to tell the truth in the face of such terrible treatment. So she kept being truthful, and I think she helped herself and others along the way. She's clean and sober for over 10 years now.

Moral of the story: do what is right and honest. The rest will, usually, take care of itself.

OTT

Mark75

Hi Oncho

Hey, if AA resonates with you more than NA, if AA is where you find the solution, and you have a desire to quit drinking, especially if you are alcoholic, then by all means, go to AA!!!

I identified as an alcoholic and an addict... Got a little (not much) backlash from a couple of people, and I dropped the "anda"... not sure I was really an addict... though the treatment center had me identify as one...

Share your experience as it relates to alcohol... if your experience with alcoholism lead you to the needle.. OK.. I wouldn't get too worried about a brief mention of it... I am more interested in how you've found a solution to your alcoholism anyway...

AA can't be all things to all people... we can pray that those kids who felt chased out... (were they really? or were they asked to share their experience as it relates to alcohol, and maybe they don't really have anything to share?)... will find the fellowship and program that's right for them...

Welcome to SR. Glad to have you.

recycle

Oncorhynchus, you learned two really great lessons about AA: How long you have been on the path has no correlation to where you are on the path. And for some people it appears to be possible to get sober even if you have a stick up your butt.

Mark75

Yea, people that walk out in the middle of a share, muttering, yea they have some issues, intolerance being one...

You don't mean, though, those who try to honor the traditions in a sensible and respectful manner?

joedris

AA has a singleness of purpose that results in limiting discussions to your problems relating to alcohol. And there's a reason for this - AA is about alcoholism and only alcoholism.

Now, having said that, there are very few people who walk through to doors today that aren't suffering from commordial addictions, and these other addictions are indeed part of their story. It's essential that you successfully deal with all your addictions or you'll succeed with none.

It's very common to find alcoholics/addicts or just addicts preferring AA meetings to NA. I see a lot of them at the meetings I attend. But when discussing their problems, they're asked to confine them to problems relating to alcohol. In your case, alcohol lead to heroin. Yet how germaine is that to your problems with alcohol? I would suggest that it relates more to your problem with heroin, as that's how you were led to it.

Your heroin addiction is best left to your discussions with your sponsor, or maybe to talking with other alcoholics outside the meeting. I'm not trying to trivialize the addiction by any means. It's serious and has to be addressed. Just not in front of an AA group.

If the issue does happen to come up and some morons in the group give you dirty looks or snickers, then you know who the losers are. Avoid them. They have nothing to contribute to your sobriety.

Many others may also object to discussing drugs in an AA meeting. Those who have what you want will mention something to you after the meeting rather than engage in sophomoric behavior while you're talking. This is a group you should pick a sponsor from.

As dgillz said, NA took it's approach to addiction from AA, but with AA's full endorsement. The steps are the same with only a few word changes to reflect NA's uniqueness. If you work the AA 12 steps with your AA sponsor, and in doing so address the drug addiction simultaneously, you should have no problems. Just make sure your sponsor is ok with it, as some aren't.

I've worked or am working with alcoholics who are drug addicts or pathological gamblers, and we work the AA steps with equal concentration on the other addictions. Those who have completed the 12 steps are sober and free from their other addictions, and I feel that their chances of remaining sober are as good as any alcoholic I've ever worked with.

Later on, after you've had some time in sobriety, you may be asked to share your story in front of a group. Then you can feel free to talk about the heroin issue as it is part of your story. And in that venue, the lesson that your alcoholism lead to heroin addiction is an important one. I often hear speakers talk about drugs as well as alcohol when they tell their story, but still only in a role secondary to alcoholism.

recycle

Mark, I don't know how they got where they are. If you are going to AA to find healthy people... well they the exception rather than the rule. It is unfortunate that some of them drive off people seeking a solution. I really try to have compassion for everyone, especially those in the program, but some folks think they can go back to running the show just because they have a decade or two of sobriety. That is not how it works.

Mark75

Which is why Tradition 2 is so very important... that each group have but one ultimate authority... a loving God...

Couldn't agree more recycle.

LetsGoJets

if you like the recovery in AA and you are an addict, then i would suggest CA. I have been to CA before and they have very good meetings that are focused on the solutuin they use the AA big book as their text. In my opinion, NA is a joke and I wouldnt waste my time there.

Onewithwings

I go to both NA and AA. NA is very accepting of alcoholics here, and AA is very accepting of addicts here. Alcohol is occasionally mentioned at NA, and drugs are occasionally mentioned at AA.

There is recovery in both groups, though more in AA (have some people with 40+ years, the 'senior' NA'er in my area has 33 years, and there are a handful of folks with 20+ years. Still some good recovery).

Most of the people at either meeting are there of their own free will, there are only one or two in each group that have to get a paper signed.

I am an addict AND an alcoholic. At NA I identify as an addict. At AA I identify as an alcoholic. To me, this is about respecting the traditions and singleness of purpose.

I read both texts, and look for the similarities and how I can apply each story to my recovery. I do not search out the differences, though I am aware that they exist.

I see no issue with someone going to both, or one or the other which they prefer. I DO have a problem with people quoting NA literature at AA, and people quoting AA literature at NA.

Go where you are most comfortable. Be honest, but keep in mind the singleness of purpose. If you must mention drugs at AA or alcohol at NA, go ahead, but keep the discussion on the solution, not the problem. That way, the substances don't matter much, because the solution (the steps!) is more or less the same.

Good luck with your recovery!

Boleo

Alcoholics Anonymous : Pamphlets

Impurrfect

I went to AA/NA when I was seriously abusing opiates, though I quit them without difficulty. Unfortunately, I was not ready, and met someone who introduced me to crack, and I am, most definitely, a recovering crack addict.

I used the words "pick up" instead of use, never mentioned crack, though I did say "I'm an alcoholic and addict". I abused alcohol, when I was much younger, so saying I was an alcoholic was sort of a stretch (quit, had no problems afterward), but I respected that it COULD have become a problem and I really liked this group.

It was in the meetings-after-the-meetings, and with my sponsor, that I was able to reveal my REAL issue was opiates (at the time). I met several others, in the same boat, and when new people would come in with an "NA addiction", the old-timers would tell them to talk to me after the meeting.

It didn't take long for me to realize the similarities I had with people who'd never touched a drug, but were alcoholics. The substance wasn't the problem, I was the problem and when someone would mention drinking, I just silently replaced it in my head with "using". I only wish I'd been ready to quit EVERYTHING, then, rather than go out and find another, worse drug.

It sounds like you've found a good group, and that's a good thing. Not all groups are good for us, though they may be perfect for someone else.

Though I know longer go to meetings, I still use what I learned there, and have worked out my own program. I've got almost 4 years clean, but I can assure you, if my way stops working, I know where there's a good AA meeting, right down the road and I will go. It's not that I'm sure there are many good NA groups, I just felt more comfortable in AA.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Missybuns

Seems as though you are not familiar with the tenth tradition of either fellowship.

When I sought help at beginning of my recovery, I attended both AA and NA until I knew where I felt best suited. Then I made my choice.

Both fellowships vary from area to area. Find the winners and follow in their footsteps.

Each of us has our own path to find. Groups and their members of either fellowship who have an understanding of the traditions oppose no one.

Peace,
Missy

Oncorhynchus

I appreciate all of you and I see something devine being said to me in every response. (I know that sounds kinda lame).

I have a temporary Sponsor, after I randomly stopped calling my old sponsor. Now I see where the saying "it works if you work it" comes from. I stopped working it, and it (my spiritual growth to be happy joyous and free = Sober) stopped working! I will keep going, talk to other men, regardless of how hard it is, and pick up that 100 pound phone every now and then!! (I hope)