What Recovery Is
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
What Recovery Is
There should be clarity and specificity about the meaning of recovery.
Recovery-- a psychic change or spiritual awakening through the experience of working the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous as outlined in the Big Book with a sponsor.
Meetings-- where we are supposed to be able to learn about how to work the 12 steps, share our experience about working the 12 steps, and find someone to help us work the 12 steps.
Fellowship-- the strength and power we derive from identifying with a group of people with a similar problem, seeking a similar solution.
Service-- the carrying of a message that has depth and weight (the 12 steps) to other alcoholics.
Recovery is only the working of the 12 steps. It is not a meeting. It is not your sponsor, or your coffee commitment. Done the way it is outlined in the Big Book, it brings the alcoholic to a state of being "recovered," not "recovering." This should not be confused with "cured,"-- we are never cured. We are brought to a condition where the obsession to drink is relieved, where sanity is restored, where truth is clear-- provided we continue to carry this very specific message and enlarge our spiritual life.
Recovery-- a psychic change or spiritual awakening through the experience of working the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous as outlined in the Big Book with a sponsor.
Meetings-- where we are supposed to be able to learn about how to work the 12 steps, share our experience about working the 12 steps, and find someone to help us work the 12 steps.
Fellowship-- the strength and power we derive from identifying with a group of people with a similar problem, seeking a similar solution.
Service-- the carrying of a message that has depth and weight (the 12 steps) to other alcoholics.
Recovery is only the working of the 12 steps. It is not a meeting. It is not your sponsor, or your coffee commitment. Done the way it is outlined in the Big Book, it brings the alcoholic to a state of being "recovered," not "recovering." This should not be confused with "cured,"-- we are never cured. We are brought to a condition where the obsession to drink is relieved, where sanity is restored, where truth is clear-- provided we continue to carry this very specific message and enlarge our spiritual life.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,941
From a SMART Recovery perspective:
Recovery - "how to change self-defeating thinking, emotions, and actions; and to work towards long-term satisfactions and quality of life"
(SMART RecoveryŽ - Introduction)
From my own perspective being recovered is no longer suffering from the symptoms of alcoholism/addiction. Also having a healthy reaction to life as it comes.
Recovery - "how to change self-defeating thinking, emotions, and actions; and to work towards long-term satisfactions and quality of life"
(SMART RecoveryŽ - Introduction)
From my own perspective being recovered is no longer suffering from the symptoms of alcoholism/addiction. Also having a healthy reaction to life as it comes.
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by RobertHugh 
...it brings the alcoholic to a state of being "recovered," not "recovering."
I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most rehab programs want to emphasize to their patients that recovery is not a "one and done" process.
I sometimes call myself recovered because I have been released from the obsession to drink. However; my release is contingent on my spiritual fitness (something beyond the scope of this forum). The analogy that I like to use to describe it is:
I can be "recovered" from a gunshot wound, but that does not make me bulletproof.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 275
Originally Posted by Boleo
This is a subject that comes up every few months and typically ends with a heated debate about the syntax and semantics of the word "recovered".
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I'm new around here but even I would bet this thread goes south, as did the "dry drunk" thread over in the Newcomers section. There seems to be a lot of animosity between the AA'ers and the non AA'ers. I also have noticed there are 2-3 members who are long sober and like to come along on the newcomers threads and just chop people off at the knees after having slips. What a shame.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Originally Posted by TexasNative
I'm new around here but even I would bet this thread goes south, as did the "dry drunk" thread over in the Newcomers section. There seems to be a lot of animosity between the AA'ers and the non AA'ers. I also have noticed there are 2-3 members who are long sober and like to come along on the newcomers threads and just chop people off at the knees after having slips. What a shame.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,427
One surefire way to make a thread go south is call out a particular section of the community.
People are people - all shapes and sizes - they share their story and their hope in different ways...
but no one *has* to spend hours posting to complete strangers here to try and help them put their lives back together.
We do it cos we want to and, although I don't agree with every post or every poster I read here everyday, I know we're all on the same side, and I try to remember that.
lets get back on topic - what recovery is ?
D
People are people - all shapes and sizes - they share their story and their hope in different ways...
but no one *has* to spend hours posting to complete strangers here to try and help them put their lives back together.
We do it cos we want to and, although I don't agree with every post or every poster I read here everyday, I know we're all on the same side, and I try to remember that.
lets get back on topic - what recovery is ?
D
Last edited by Dee74; 07-25-2010 at 05:14 PM. Reason: typo
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Dee74
lets get back on topic - what is recovery?
D
D
Recovery is not drinking and feeling good about it
I used to use booze to feel good about not dealing with life
Now I use life to feel good about dealing with booze.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,774
I can be "recovered" from a gunshot wound, but that does not make me bulletproof.
Abstinence is not drinking and feeling bad about it
Recovery is not drinking and feeling good about it
I used to use booze to feel good about not dealing with life
Now I use life to feel good about dealing with booze.
Recovery is not drinking and feeling good about it
I used to use booze to feel good about not dealing with life
Now I use life to feel good about dealing with booze.
Sobriety Date: Feb 2009
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Jpn
Posts: 389
Abstinence vs Recovery - Is There A Difference? <- This thread helps me a lot about recovery.
Recovered person utilizes resources instead of or in addition to will-power to maintain sobriety and to learn healthier ways to think, feel, and act.
Recovered person utilizes resources instead of or in addition to will-power to maintain sobriety and to learn healthier ways to think, feel, and act.
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
Chopping people off at the knees-- particularly those who have relapsed-- is the absolute worst thing we can do.
I'm only six months removed from my last drink. I spent three years relapsing after 11 years of "sobriety." I know the pain of relapse, the awful despair of being powerless and feeling utterly weak.
So it is that I find hope in the word "recovered." I want to be relieved and restored.
When I came back from relapsing, I was afraid that I'd tried everything. I was incredibly grateful to learn that, having never worked the steps, I'd never worked AA. So there was hope that it might be different if I did what was suggested.
I will never debate anyone's method of recovery. If willpower and keeping the memory green works for you, have at it. It stopped working for me. And judging from the success rate in AA, it's not working for a lot of people.
Let's always be clear about what AA is, and what it is not. It was never intended to be group therapy. I don't believe Bill Wilson wanted us sitting around talking about our problems. I also don't believe he'd have endorsed slogans that emphasized willpower (Just don't drink, etc.).
We have a text book to read and understand what AA is, and what it is not, so there should be no debate about that. My responsibility is to offer the message of hope from that book to the suffering alcoholic.
I'm only six months removed from my last drink. I spent three years relapsing after 11 years of "sobriety." I know the pain of relapse, the awful despair of being powerless and feeling utterly weak.
So it is that I find hope in the word "recovered." I want to be relieved and restored.
When I came back from relapsing, I was afraid that I'd tried everything. I was incredibly grateful to learn that, having never worked the steps, I'd never worked AA. So there was hope that it might be different if I did what was suggested.
I will never debate anyone's method of recovery. If willpower and keeping the memory green works for you, have at it. It stopped working for me. And judging from the success rate in AA, it's not working for a lot of people.
Let's always be clear about what AA is, and what it is not. It was never intended to be group therapy. I don't believe Bill Wilson wanted us sitting around talking about our problems. I also don't believe he'd have endorsed slogans that emphasized willpower (Just don't drink, etc.).
We have a text book to read and understand what AA is, and what it is not, so there should be no debate about that. My responsibility is to offer the message of hope from that book to the suffering alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
I was thinking about this today... recovered, what does that mean to me.
To me it means that I have a solution that doesn't rely on alcohol. If I am troubled, confused, irritable, restless... I don't go looking for a drink. I look for the meaning of it all, and well, maybe there is none, but I deal with it.
More importantly I am not apart from you. We are all human beings here on this planet, doing the best we can to live our lives... we are all much more alike than different. We are all wonderfully imperfect.
That comment about cutting one off at the knees... That it was the intent of a recovered alcoholic to do that couldn't be farther from the truth... I know that when I first started recovery, in a very rigorous treatment center, for two months... I felt constantly attacked, insulted and defensive... How could they say those things about me? ... When I quit trying to protect my addiction I began to understand that it was the ADDICTION they were trying to cut off at the knees... not me ...
Peace
To me it means that I have a solution that doesn't rely on alcohol. If I am troubled, confused, irritable, restless... I don't go looking for a drink. I look for the meaning of it all, and well, maybe there is none, but I deal with it.
More importantly I am not apart from you. We are all human beings here on this planet, doing the best we can to live our lives... we are all much more alike than different. We are all wonderfully imperfect.
That comment about cutting one off at the knees... That it was the intent of a recovered alcoholic to do that couldn't be farther from the truth... I know that when I first started recovery, in a very rigorous treatment center, for two months... I felt constantly attacked, insulted and defensive... How could they say those things about me? ... When I quit trying to protect my addiction I began to understand that it was the ADDICTION they were trying to cut off at the knees... not me ...
Peace
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Boleo
This is a subject that comes up every few months and typically ends with a heated debate about the syntax and semantics of the word "recovered".
I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most rehab programs want to emphasize to their patients that recovery is not a "one and done" process.
I sometimes call myself recovered because I have been released from the obsession to drink. However; my release is contingent on my spiritual fitness (something beyond the scope of this forum). The analogy that I like to use to describe it is:
I can be "recovered" from a gunshot wound, but that does not make me bulletproof.
I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most rehab programs want to emphasize to their patients that recovery is not a "one and done" process.
I sometimes call myself recovered because I have been released from the obsession to drink. However; my release is contingent on my spiritual fitness (something beyond the scope of this forum). The analogy that I like to use to describe it is:
I can be "recovered" from a gunshot wound, but that does not make me bulletproof.
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Chops
What are your stats based on?
As for the rest of your post, let me just say this, if you don't want to debate peoples methods of recovery you might be best served by talking about what recovery means to you and giving a laundry list of what it is not in your opinion since those things may be what keeps people sober.
You have your experience and others have theirs.
As for the rest of your post, let me just say this, if you don't want to debate peoples methods of recovery you might be best served by talking about what recovery means to you and giving a laundry list of what it is not in your opinion since those things may be what keeps people sober.
You have your experience and others have theirs.
More importantly, whatever the number may be (perhaps you know a higher number?), it pales in comparison to the staggering success early AA enjoyed. Those statistics are in the Big Book (50-75%) as well as in archived data from the Akron, New York, and Cleveland AA groups. I can track them down if I have more time.
As for what's my opinion and what's fact, I should have been more clear. Let me say it another way-- there are billions of opinions on what might get you recovered. There are facts, however, about what AA is, and what it is not. It's clearly outlined. Feel free to create whatever recovery program you might want, but let's not call it AA.
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by Chops
You caught me with the quote button but I am still not going there. I am in AA and love it, it saved my life.
Congrats on your 6 months and welcome to SR!
Congrats on your 6 months and welcome to SR!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hey Chops...I am impressed you were able to refrain! I was in the Debate club in college, and worked in law for 14 years, it's kind of my default mode...I love a good debate;-) It's also one of the ways I learn, since one of the best ways to debate is to actually understand the other persons argument instead of just yelling at each other, theres a big difference between arguing and debating.
FYI Robert, I would never call my approach to Recovery AA.
I think it's interesting that you seem to repudiate the "group therapy" aspect of how AA is frequently practiced today. I have to say, that aspect was one of the things that I found distasteful about AA for me.
Right now, I don't think I am using Willpower to not drink...at the end of my drinking career I was using a tremendous amount of willpower to make myself drink (anyone else get to this point?).
FYI Robert, I would never call my approach to Recovery AA.
I think it's interesting that you seem to repudiate the "group therapy" aspect of how AA is frequently practiced today. I have to say, that aspect was one of the things that I found distasteful about AA for me.
Right now, I don't think I am using Willpower to not drink...at the end of my drinking career I was using a tremendous amount of willpower to make myself drink (anyone else get to this point?).
Grouch and Brainstorm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by LaFemme
Hey Chops...I am impressed you were able to refrain! I was in the Debate club in college, and worked in law for 14 years, it's kind of my default mode...I love a good debate;-) It's also one of the ways I learn, since one of the best ways to debate is to actually understand the other persons argument instead of just yelling at each other, theres a big difference between arguing and debating.
FYI Robert, I would never call my approach to Recovery AA.
I think it's interesting that you seem to repudiate the "group therapy" aspect of how AA is frequently practiced today. I have to say, that aspect was one of the things that I found distasteful about AA for me.
Right now, I don't think I am using Willpower to not drink...at the end of my drinking career I was using a tremendous amount of willpower to make myself drink (anyone else get to this point?).
FYI Robert, I would never call my approach to Recovery AA.
I think it's interesting that you seem to repudiate the "group therapy" aspect of how AA is frequently practiced today. I have to say, that aspect was one of the things that I found distasteful about AA for me.
Right now, I don't think I am using Willpower to not drink...at the end of my drinking career I was using a tremendous amount of willpower to make myself drink (anyone else get to this point?).
I am learning that this forum is not just about AA, but different ways to recover. So I may have been a bit over the top in the beginning. Attempting to step back.
I guess my point is this-- I've come to the understanding that the group therapy often practiced in today's open AA meeting is not AA in the pure sense. It's a derivative program, operating under the AA banner-- and it can keep people sober. It's been explained to me that the rehab approach to recovery (with group therapy, focus on triggers, etc.) has watered-down what AA was originally. I operated in that oral tradition of AA for many years.
What I find most interesting about this issue is that, when you consider the original text and what AA was like, Big Book thumpers are traditionalists-- not rogue off-shoots of AA. It's the current manifestation of AA that's the off-road version.
I found your comment about needing willpower to drink very interesting. I did not need willpower-- yes, I knew it made me sick and had consequences-- but it was like oxygen for me at the end. A single second of sobriety-- both the physical pain and facing the horror of what I'd become-- was untenable.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
I think it's because your approach to AA has worked so well for you that you are passionate about it and that is great...you want to share your success with others:-) I have a lot to learn here to in terms of watching my tone in my responses that I don't inadvertently say something that can be misconstrued!
At the end for me, I would sit with a glass of wine (DOC) in front of me and the alcoholic part of my brain would almost force me to drink it, despite that it would hurt to actually drink it. After I got a couple glasses down it wouldn't hurt so much, but those first drinks of the day were torture.
I believe that it was God working in my life, I prayed for ages to have him make alcohol repugnant to me...the funny thing is I continued to drink for months after alcohol became a torture for me to swallow.
Don't know if that makes any sense.
At the end for me, I would sit with a glass of wine (DOC) in front of me and the alcoholic part of my brain would almost force me to drink it, despite that it would hurt to actually drink it. After I got a couple glasses down it wouldn't hurt so much, but those first drinks of the day were torture.
I believe that it was God working in my life, I prayed for ages to have him make alcohol repugnant to me...the funny thing is I continued to drink for months after alcohol became a torture for me to swallow.
Don't know if that makes any sense.
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