43395

For a,'real alcoholic' like me, putting aside the physical symptoms caused by the fact that my body does not digest alcohol at the same rate as,'normal social' drinkers, 1oz. per hour causing a build up of the enzymes that breakdown the carbohydrates (alcohol) which results in the mental symptoms, simply put asmessages sent to the brain saying,'Give me more!"

The one thing that alcohol will do for me that it will not do for normal social or heavy drinkers or even those who are alcohol dependent drinkers, perhaps better know as addicts, accepting the fact that alcohol is an addictive drug.

The one thing it will do for me , if I am a ,'real alcoholic' as described in the Big Book, that it will not do for anyone else, as previously described, is instantly, no matter where I am or what my circumstances, make everything arrrlright!

It was necessary for me to know and fully understand this before I could get sober.

Applying the principle of Orcam's razor and cutting away all the extraneous information that has permeated the principles of both the book,'Alcoholics Anonymous' and the Fellowship that flourished after its publication.

LetsGoJets

Thanks for the post. As you know, the "physical" part of our illness would be academic if we never took the first drink setting the vicious cycle in motion, so THE MAIN PROBLEM of the real alcoholic, like u and me, centers in our mind and NOT our bodies. I have the mind of a chronic alcoholic, which will always take me back to a drink, regardless of the self-knowledge I have acquired or consequences I have faced as a result of drinking in the past.

Norther

I agree with this in that I have to remember one thing above all: I am an alcoholic, which means that at some level i will always want to drink.

I am a little nervous about phrases like "a real alcoholic" as that might seem dangerously exclusionary and feed right into a newcomer's denial.

43395

Point taken, however the term is used in the book,'Alcoholics Anonymous' see Chapter 3, the first line of which says,'Most of us have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics.' It then goes on to say that this is characterised by ,'the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of illusion, to the point of insanity or death. The delusion that they are like other people, which has to be smashed.
Alcoholism is an illness of ignorance, fuelled by denial irgo it follows that acceptance is the key to recovery, identified in Step one.

Mark75

If one is not a "real alcoholic" then all one needs do is quit drinking if they need to stop, right? A non alcoholic has the power they need already.

If one is not sure, just follow the instructions in the big book... Stop after one drink. Stop drinking for a year. Simple.... If one cannot, well, time to look for the needed power that is the twelve steps...

Why does this "real alcoholic" discussion always seem to stir up a little rancor? I am asking because I am genuinely interested.

Mark

43395

I didn't think it was so much rancour rather than the fact that people persist in the delusion that they can drink like other men even until the point of insanity or death. From both my own experience and seeing others afflicted with alcoholism, an alcoholic in his cups is an unlovely creature, but try , and I incude myself in my drinking days an unlovely creature.

Boleo

Hit the dirt!

Those who simply "choose" to not drink will be responding with incoming ordnance.

Dee74

D

Zencat

It used to stir me up a bit. Now its like 'whatever floats your boat'. I used to think when people were calling themselves a real alcoholic it was one upmanship. Like, oooo look at me Ive become the biggest lush in town. You guys are a bunch of light weights...LOL. And stuff like that.

Today I can care less whatever people call themselves: real alcoholic, genuine alcoholic, booze hound alcoholic or whatnot.

Interesting enough I do fit he deception of a real alcoholic per the BB yet I found my own solution that is not described in the BB. As I understand it with my limited understanding of the BB that is.

crzylilmndfreak

i never liked the term "real alcoholic" as opposed to what... a "fake alcoholic"?? i feel like it down plays others with an alcohol "problem"
crys

coffeenut

Zen said what I was thinking....and said it a lot nicer.

Thank you!

yeahgr8

I do undertand the term and i do know i am a real alcoholic...i can see how confronted with some of the BS in the rooms that this may provide some explanantion as to why someone can walk into AA and hang off meetings for 10 years and someone can't stay sober a week without starting on working the steps...just my opinion...

I got a sponsor who had had a spiritual awakening and worked the steps as soon as i walked through the door so they guided me through the process including the very important part of who to listen to:-)

Bamboozle

The 'Real Alcoholic' label tends to separate us rather unite us in our common struggle.


I personally think it's dangerous to imply that 'real alcoholics' cannot stop...that they don't have a choice. That line of thinking could permit a suffering person to give up and accept his/her 'fate'.

Everyone has the power to stop...no matter what a person chooses to label him/herself.

Once that person has stopped (with proper medical supervision) there are many ways a person can stay sober.

yeahgr8

Hi Bam

This is not my experience, so i would in this case use the term real alcoholic and seperate myself, and i mean that is not what happened to me in the last 20 years, i lived not being able to stop for long and not having a choice when the mental obsession took over...sure i could last for a time but it always won in the end...

IMO If a person can stop drinking by themselves and then continue to stay stopped without any sort of spiritual awakening or drastic psychic/personality change then they either aren't an alcoholic or they are putting huge restrictions on their daily living in order to avoid all situations where they may have drunk before and there are many people in both of these categories as i have met them many times in real life.

Boleo

Here lies the crux of the issue.

Real alcoholics such as the Big Book refers to, have lost the power of choice.
Others can "choose" not to drink because they have not crossed that invisible line.

I myself never "choose" to relapse. Nor do I "choose" to stay sober now. It is purely a matter of staying spiritually fit. When I am spiritually fit, thoughts of drinking simply do not enter my mind and no choice is ever necessary.

I know it does not make sense. You can't possibly understand it if you have not experienced it first hand.

Bamboozle

So, let me get this straight (concerning relapse)...the drink magically goes into your hand...and then, not being under your own power, your arm magically moves to put the drink to your mouth...and this being completely out of your control, the alcohol magically trickles down into your gut. I see.



Actually, it makes perfect sense. Alcoholics are notorious for making excuses and not accepting responsibility for their behaviors. With this line of thinking it is never the alcoholic's fault.



This is exactly the kind of bullsh!t that gets people dead. Every single word you write is read by countless guests and members who are looking for any excuse to compare themselves to others and erroneously conclude that they do not have serious addiction problems.

keithj

It could, you're right. It would seem that way. But in actual, real life practice, that line of thinking has helped many hundreds of thousands of chronic, hopeless alcoholics walk through the archway of freedom.

Mark75

Bam...

That line of reasoning, or conceptualization, in terms of choice and alcoholism, was what cleared the skies and finally brought me serenity.

There is nothing in there that suggests that we abdicate accountability...

I have "photographs" in my mind of my step one experience that I pull out from time. One of them is that bottle of vodka stashed down near the end of my workbench in the garage. It had such power over me... I would be out there, sneaking hits off it, on and off all night... Now... Yes, I choose to get up and walk out to the garage, I chose to turn the bottle upside down and take a long pull... yet I didn't feel like I did, actually have a choice.

I choose now to relinquish that choice.

Mark

Doe

keithj

Bam,

First, let me say that it's OK if you don't agree with or relate to that powerless concept. This is not the 12 Step forum, and you don't have to have any experience with being powerless to be successfully sober. We can have different paths to the same place.

Obviously, you understand that this is not how it works. Instead, what happens is that my mind played tricks on me. After a period of not drinking, after swearing off for good, after being convinced that I can never safely drink at all, after losing all the material things I had, spending time in jails, going to rehab, seeking treatment from counselors and doctors, I still got the idea in my head that a drink would be good. And I drank and stayed drunk.

I would get, in BB terms, restless, irritable, and discontent unless I could drink again. In my terms, I would get bored, anxious, life would be flat, everybody pissed me off.

It's just been demonstrated over and over with chronic alcoholics. I watch the local drug court clients have 2 years of sobriety, convinced they will never drink again, go right back to it. Over and over.

And it's got nothing to do with personal responsibility. I had the responsibility to pick up the kit of spiritual tools. My choice entirely. In order to use those tools, I had to accept defeat. I had to accept that I didn't have the power to stay sober.

What about those people with chronic depression? Why don't they just get off their butts and just feel better? Start being more positive. Well, it's probably because they don't have the power to do so. Kind of the same thing with alcoholism. I didn't have the power to stay sober, despite my sincere efforts and desire.

Boleo

That,s exactly the kind of incoming ordnance that I predicted would happen in post # 7. Your are vehemently expressing an opinion about an experience that your have never had. That is why I stated that it would never make sense to you.

This is a Big Book matter that would be easy to explain in the 12 step forum but it will only cause heated debate here because some here do not believe in the Big Book.

As far as "gets people dead" is concerned - those who truly are powerless are better off hearing about "the subtle insanity which precedes the first drink". (page 40)