larrylive

"rarely have we seen a person fail........."
Well I am here to tell you that now you have.
"There are those too who CAN NOT or will not give themselves to this simple program. They are not at fault, they seem to have been born that. But many of them do recover, if the have the capacity to be honest."
And so my story begins-and ends. For I am a crackhead, living in a hell of my own creation. 15yrs smoking crack-10 of which I have been pursueing recovery.
To no avail. Although my last binge was back in Dec, I don't find much relief in the fact. I have previously had 4 & 5 months sobriety. The 4 mos. due to my being in jail, for the first time, last year. The 5 because I was in a program, but that actually translates to being broke. You see that is my one and only trigger. And as long as I remain unemployed, as long as I don't have money, I won't smoke crack-period. It's the homelessness that is getting to me.
I am involved in treatment, a bunch of hooey if you ask me. The best group is CBT;coccaine, just because we openly discuss and call each other out on our crackhead behaviors. Elsewise I am only trying to get some living assistance until I can get myself back on my feet. And it's not going well.
I suppose I have digressed from my original intention with this post. So if you are our were a crackhead, by which I mean that was your Drug of Chaos, and money became the root of all evil. I would love to hear what you are doing to avoid using and returning to the so called normal world.
Thanks for your time and interest.

Regards,
Larrylive

PS if we have been around this bush in another thread, no need to repeat yourself, I re-read old post all the time.

Anna

Hi Larry,

I'm glad you are seeking support.

I am not a crackhead but, am a recovering alcoholic. I don't believe that money is the only issue. I sure get that money is a trigger. But, it doesn't follow that having no money will lead you to recover. It might mean you can't buy the crack, but that's not recovering. I am not an AA person, and I use SR as a lifeline.

I really hope that you can find some peace in your life.

least

The biggest thing keeping me sober is WANTING to be sober MORE than wanting to drink. I think that logic might work for drug use too.

larrylive

Dear Anna and Least,

Thank you for taking the time to share your insight. I hope all is going well for you and yours.
Please understand it is not with disregard for your circumstances that I try to specificly target crackheads (current and former). It's because I am one, and with the reluctance of raising others ire, I do believe there is a difference in (at least) my addiction.
as I have tried to point out, I do have the one trigger, money. as to other issues underlying my use, at least in the beginning, I am unaware of them. Which is not to recognise the circumstances, too many late nights with the wrong crowd. I was working in a night club, drinking (not my thing) and I being the ever curious and willing sort proceded to try, and get addicted to, crack.
I have also come to realise the relief I had felt from what I believe is undiagnosed ADD.
I refered to the crack high as putting the blinders on. I believe this is also why my drug of preference is marijauna, an addiction which has found itself put on the back burner as I can not afford it.
Least, had mentioned the desire to be sober, which I think could be compared to "ready to qiut". and I for one do have a deep burning desire to leave this addiction behind me.
I am ready, willing and able to move into the most remote and isolated parts just to do so. I just can't find a way to bring it into being. I also believe that while this would help keep me sober, it would not be condusive to recovery or the other social benefits I have yet to take part in. ( I love kids and wish to impart some of my better graces with them).
Anna, it strikes me as odd (or not) that you differentiate between sobeity and recovery and then state you are not an AA. You are right, hence the afore mentioned, do I isolate or not?
again thank you for your replies, you have given me pause for thought.
Regards,
Larrylive

Anna

Hi Larry,

I don't think I meant to differentiate between sobriety and recovery.

I was trying to say that there is a difference between stopping drinking/drugging and recovering, because the recovery is an ongoing process, which is different from the actual stopping.

And, AA and NA work very well for many people. You talked about your treatment program being hooey, so I mentioned that I use SR. There is a lot of good information here and many wonderful people.

I hope that someone comes along who can give you the advice you're looking for.

CarolD

Hmm Larry....
I am an AA recovered alcoholic.....and I'm curious
as to why you evidently are doing AA
rather than another program?

Perhaps you need to committ to something else.

larrylive

Carol;

with the hopes this post finds you and any who pass by in the midst of comfortable day.
I for one am trying to find the best in each and everyone.
as to your inqiury of why I, a crackhead, chooses alcholics anon. as the focal point of my recovery. Because it's there? It was the introductory process my first rehab promoted. And due to it's popularity, the most accessable. I have gone to many NA meetings and I own and have read the book. But there seems to be a difference in the attitude of the participants, and I am more attracted to the people in AA. And contrary to the approved literature our local groups are probably 50/50 alcoholic/addict, at least in the city. The more suburban meetings scew to the alcoholic.
I also include all literature, books (approved or not) pamplets and periodicals when I mentioned accessibility. I am a voracious reader, and take my sobriety/addiction quite seriously.
But most importantly for me, I think the 12 steps could be of benefit to anyone seeking to improve themselves.
Respectfully,
Larry

CarolD

for clarifying Larry
I certainly wish you the best life has to offer.

preta

Hi Larry, i'm upstate here in rochester. I'm an alcoholic who had problems with heroin/crack/cocaine as well and I use AA to stay sober. That being said, as far as that whole quote "Rarely have we seen a person fail...etc, constitutionally incapable..blah blah.." Yaknow, you dont have to take every sentence in that book to be 100% true. I've never really understood the picking apart of every statement in the AA book and analyzing it to death as if it were the torah. I dont know anyone who is "constitutionally incapable of being honest", and I think its kinda condescending and insulting.
You dont seem to believe that you can get clean. This is nothing but a concept in your mind, and another obstacle to your recovery. Crack/cocaine is tough man. It was the last "mental obsession" to leave me. It's a lot of work. I think recovery boils down to one thing: Find a deeper purpose for your life, one that changes the way you think. Whether thats AA or SOS or NA or church or whatever, you need to experience a total change, and you need the help of other people....this thing is not easy and I wish you the best. May you have a peaceful mind and a compassionate heart.

larrylive

rrrrrrrggggg......

I am failing to understand something very ingrained with people in recovery. and unfortunately all I can do is look at my self. I like to beleive that I am articulate and accurate and specific and above all open and honest.
Perhaps it's as the parent that beats the child, is only trying to help?
Please understand if AA/NA has helped you to stay sober, if not recover, I am so happy for you, you are blessed beyond my wildest dreams.
It is not so for me. I have tried over and over again, to the piont of it could be deemed insanity ( you know expexting different results)
I don't have a problem getting clean (100+ days) I have a problem not using in combonation with one trigger, money.
It funny that AA it self doesn't even claim that the program is the answer for every one. Yet those who spend a lot of time promoting it (mmm) insist it's the only way.

I have smoked way to much crack in the past.
I don't want to smoke crack ever again.
But I am afraid that if past results are an indication of future actions I will. So I painfully take steps and measures to restrict access and availibilty.
I long for the life I once had, before crack.

Regards,
Larrylive

Spawn

Money "was" a trigger for me,....for the first year or so I had a trustee handle my money.

stugotz

Larry I think you found your "crackhead" I smoked crack before it was called crack. About 25 years my friend. I have no affinity to any other substance. The only time I would drink was to come down. That being said I prefer to live in the solution. I too find my sobriety in the rooms of AA. The "jumping off" point for me wasnt any one thing. It was many. At first it was to stop all the insanity in my life(jails, prisons, etc...) The rooms of AA are not for people that need or want it. If it were they would have to have meetings in football stadiums 24 hrs a day. AA is for people willing to go to any length to get and stay sober. Go to a meeting, get a sponser and remember. The same man will drink again. That is the key for me. Good luck and God bless.....

SteppingItUp

Hey Larry,

Congratulations on seeking help and taking some real strides to change your life.

I'm an addict. (I'm also an alcoholic, but as alcohol is a drug, I believe at the end of the day it's just more of a reason to consider myself an addict.) I thought my problem was a single drug -- I had a 24/7 addiction to smoking heroin. Here’s a secret I’ve learned though, and it took quite a bit for me to understand this – it wasn’t about the heroin. It’s not about alcohol either. It’s not about any specific substance. Drugs were a symptom of my disease – they weren’t the disease itself. It’s really not about the crack.

It turns out I failed to recognize all kinds of things that should have been as clear as day to me. That's the nature of addiction -- we can live it, but the uncanny ability of the disease for denial and endless manipulation of our perception of reality can cause us to miss the basics, misinterpret information, argue with help and manipulate the facts. That is the nature of the beast and part of what can make treating addiction so difficult.

Take the drugs away and I’m still an addict. My addictive behaviors, my insanity (and no, I don’t believe there is a single addict out there who is not insane, although I most definitely did not recognize that insanity in myself until I was well into Step Two), my self-centeredness remain paramount if I don't change them, and if I weren't willing to change, relapse would be predictable. Through my addiction, I had lost the ability to live life like others do, if I ever had that ability in the first place, and I was desperately, spiritually sick.

The full quote from the AA Big Book is this:

“RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.”

What’s sort of ironic is that a great deal of us are incapable of being honest with ourselves for a very, very long time – I mean I didn’t really believe I was an addict (or an alcoholic) until I had been clean (or sober) for a few months. That’s mind boggling to me now. Most of us, no matter how sick we are or in what capacity can really get the program and work it until it works its miracles in us. Thoroughly following our path has nothing to do with how we used to try to quit; rather, it means working the actual program. It is a program of rigorous honesty – perhaps that might seem like such a small piece of the pie, but it’s fundamental to our survival. If we can’t get honest with what we’re dealing with, we’re going to have one hell of a time actually changing what’s wrong with us. If we don’t change in a big way, the record can predict three options for us: jails, institutions and death.

Working the program means regularly attending meetings, sharing, calling other addicts in recovery, finding a sponsor, working the steps, studying the literature, getting involved in service, being rigorously honest, remaining vigilant, learning how to not pick up no matter what, following suggestions, sticking with the winners, doing whatever it takes to get clean and stay that way (for an addict, in my belief, practicing complete abstinence from all mind and mood altering chemicals) -- this is truly the recipe for success.

There are many, many people who come through the doors and do only some of those things, but not all of them. In my humble opinion, I suggest that perhaps one is not truly working the program unless it’s the full program. It’s pretty hard if not impossible to fail if we’re truly doing all of those things. It might look like a lot from the get-go, but I think it’s like a dance, and it becomes easy and pleasurable with time. Perhaps it’s also a lot simpler than it sounds.

We are generally a sick bunch, and we do recover. Some are sicker than others -- and we still recover. So who else might these people be who are fundamentally incapable of being honest with themselves? I don't know. There are some pretty serious personality disorders out there. I may be wrong, but my personal guess has been that there might be a few from a category or two from there, but we really don’t use clinical terms to decide who they are or what they’re called. My dad, who is a psychologist, went with my mother to Hazelden for the Family program, and at the end of their time there a woman from the program told him he had no recovery. He might be one of those people, I don't know. Just do whatever it takes to be rigorously honest – if you can get honest with yourself, you’re not one of them.

Stress, family, work, holidays, having money, worrying about money, feeling good, feeling bad, boredom, physical pain, weekends, exams, friends, tin foil, seeing a dealer, hearing the phone ring -- you mention it -- if it involved anything having to do with emotions, real life or fantasy, it was a trigger. Something I've discovered on my journey into recovery (and trust me, it took awhile), is that the problem wasn't my mom, my dad, my boyfriend, my business, my finances, my "anxiety" -- the problem was ME. Thank goodness for that. Know why? Because if my problems were really all of those things outside of me, I couldn't change them. What I can change is ME.

I can't do it alone. I thought I could -- I desperately wanted to, and boy oh boy did I push and pull trying to get that strategy right -- but experience shows that we really don't stand much of a chance of getting better by ourselves. It's a miracle that we don't have to reinvent the wheel -- a program of recovery that we know works is available to any addict truly willing to work it. It doesn't work if we don't work it.

The ultimate weapon for recovery is the recovering addict.

As an addict, NA feels like my first home. I am powerless over my addiction, not just a substance, and that’s what I learn there. The NA Basic Text has the experience, strength and hope specifically written by addicts for addicts – it is a priceless book, the heart of our program and literally a lifesaver. Do what you need to do, but remember that from now on there’s a seat in the rooms with your name on it. Meetings can vary, so if you’re in an area with a good number of meetings and different kinds to choose from, I think the best of the bunch are step meetings. We don’t have that choice where I am, but it certainly works just the same. Just keep coming back.

Big hugs and best wishes!

Stereosteveo

I have a disease of perception, and as always I could be wrong, but I sense a recurring theme in your posts Larry. It's basically: "What part am I missing?" Been there, felt that. And yes, believe me, I know from reading so many of your posts; "your case is different."

And so if you have "fearlessly, thoroughly, and honestly" pursued the steps (particularly 4-9 for me) to no avail, then I don't know what to tell you.

I can tell you in my experience I have seen very few people truly capable of surrendering to the degree necessary for the process to be effective. I would say it's far less than 1%. Myself included for ther longest time. ""fearlessly, thoroughly, and honestly" is asking a lot. Think about each of those words individually and ask yourself how far you've been. As you know in "How it Works" it basically says the only people who do not recover are those who cannot 'completely' give themselves to this simple program.

I thought I had felt the pain of crack addiction and alcoholism when I arrived in recovery. Later I was to be taken to a place of lonliness and hopelessness that I did not even know existed. A beating at a deep spiritual level so to speak. Only then did I become willing to do 'anything' which might relieve me of the terrible obsession.

I don't think it matters which rooms you go into. For me the solution was not in the rooms. It was in me and the book, me and a piece of paper, me and God in prayer and meditation, me and my sponsor cleaning house, me knocking on doors in amends, me trying to help others. The solution has never been "out there", it's always been "in here", I just couldn't see it until I used the 12-step process to unblock myself.

I used to keep asking myself why the program wasn't working for me either, then it was pointed out to me that maybe I wasn't working for it. You see. The old addict mentality? Wanting "it to work for me".? The old something for nothing. I had it backwards.

I like what a guy said recently "If you are in recovery and you are using, or even thinking of using, there's work to be done. You don't have to feel that way." also "If you're wondering whether or not you have recieved the gift, well...then you haven't.."

I respect your efforts in recovery, but after all of these years why are you still reaching out in hopes that human power will save you? Do you think someone on here is going to type the magic response that will keep you sober? Or say the magic words in a meeting which will zapp you into the 4th dimension? Good luck. Been there done that too....

I look at the old timer chronic relapsers around our area. They keep working "their" program, baffled by the insane results. They cry out "help me..!!", but refuse to do any of the work or take any of the action. They walk in with dried up puke on their shirts, but are too proud to do a 4th step. They have nothing to transmit to the new junkie walking in the doors but a message of hopelessness. It's so sad.

I hope you are not one of these people Larry. We need you.

larrylive

Well I'll be....no not really, but it certainly was a gallant effort.

Hello Steveo, long time no see(read). Very admirable your taking the time to reassess my situation, and for the most part I am grateful.
I still obviously am not having any luck with clarity, you see I am well aware of my situation, cause and effect wise. I do, however, believe that there are many like me and can not come to terms with the reality of it. I would not have guessed the effectiveness of the program you described to be as low as 1%, my research has indicated it to be as high as 25%.
As to your question...
"I respect your efforts in recovery, but after all of these years why are you still reaching out in hopes that human power will save you? Do you think someone on here is going to type the magic response that will keep you sober?"
Perhaps I miss communicated, and I apologize if I ever demanded the solution, implying that someone has it and is reluctant to give it to me. That is in no way the case. I know I have asked if anyone is aware of the solution for persons such as myself, but I suppose I was not truly expecting it to be forth coming. Why else would those high paid scientist still be testing cocaine on the cute little lab rats, certainly not for lack of something better to do. (I'm sorry I couldn't resist and I am in a bad space)
But that's where I come in, I am just trying to be helpful, if only through understanding. I just walked a doped-up smackhead to the emergency housing, in the rain. I knew it was full, but I also know he stands a better chance of getting the help he needs from their referral, not mine. And maybe someday a sad, sick and suffering crackhead will happen upon my post and think; ya that's exactly how I feel. And then by the grace of God, they'll realize that "recoveredcrackhead" is my e-mail and will contact me and say "you know nobody understands what happens in my head" To which I will reply "I do, your not alone"
The waiting isn't fun, but it is necessary. And who knows maybe by the time I get that e-mail I'll have the answer we're both looking for.
So in case this long, diluted response has still not answered your inquiry........
I don't do it for me, I do it for all of us crackheads who can find no relief.



And in reverse order for no particular reason....

Dear SteppingIU,
Welcome, please excuse me if I come off ill mannered, it is not my intent. I also should apologize for not answering earlier today when I first read your post, but I was distracted by some bad news. So getting back to topic.....
Unfortunately I must accept that I "cannot...give myself to this simple program" and that I may well "suffer from a grave emotional disorder". Please do not think I say this with out much foreboding in my heart. It is a deep realization that I deal with.
But back to the task at hand- living with out crack.

You said, "I mean I didn’t really believe I was an addict (or an alcoholic) until I had been clean (or sober) for a few months"

I say I am a crackhead and have been well aware of this fact for 12yrs, admitting out loud for the last 10yrs
Now one thing you mentioned that sticks out in my head, always, and I find it incredibly ironic when people say it....
"learning how to not pick up no matter what"
Alright, I agree, you are correct, that is the answer

Now I am quite ignorant of this process, could you please explain how I might go about accomplishing this?
I am not being sarcastic, for this is the crux of the matter. If I have money I will smoke crack (if past performance is indicative of future results, and unfortunately....)

And so once again this hunt and peck typer has used up his alotted time.
Thank you all for being a part of my journey, particularly those who at least sympathize.

Regards,
Larrylive

SteppingItUp

Yep. In my case, it’s an example of the pure insanity of addiction. I knew and even accepted that I had a problem with addiction, but I couldn't bring myself to truly believe that I was an addict. I manipulated words, ideas, terms and basic logic. I thought I was too smart, too well-off, too educated, too successful, too young, too clean looking, too pretty, too whatever. This despite the fact that I had been extraordinarily addicted to smoking heroin for 6 years – this despite the fact that I was a serious poly drug user for a dozen years, my entire adult life. The first time I thought to list the drugs that I had used, the total came to 27. Not 27 times, but 27 kinds of drugs. As my understanding of what a drug really involves changed, that list went to about 50 different types of drugs. This is a permanent reminder to me of how obvious something might be as relating to our addiction, and how unbelievably blind we can be to seeing it – or accepting it.

That is your choice.

Unless they have you on other drugs in the treatment center, I’m assuming you’re clean. Once we’re clean, we do have a choice. You have the books. You’ve heard about meetings. You’ve gotten suggestions. If you choose to follow them, well, they work. If you choose to do it the way you’ve always done things, well, might one predict more of the same?

By the way, I happen to believe that we all suffer from a grave emotional disorder (or many grave emotional disorders) when we come in through those doors.

There's a term that refers to "terminal uniqueness."

In a general sense, it commonly means this: "I'm different because of X, Y or Z, so what works for you isn't going to work for me." It doesn't matter what it is. In my experience, that's what the disease does when allowed to do our thinking for us -- it will feed us any reason to resist help. A lot of addicts die because of it.

Want to learn how to spot some problems in accepting help? If it's resisting help and treatment, it's probably the addiction. When I got close to the solutions, I could feel my addiction getting angry. Sometimes it helped to see what my addiction wanted me to do -- isolate, feel bad, not call people from the program, stay home from a meeting -- so I could do the opposite.

Yes.

I needed to make the decision that I would not pick up no matter what. Making that decision was my first action. In the beginning, before I found the rooms, the only thing I was able to figure out in order to accomplish this was to stay in bed. Seriously, I stayed in bed for the most part for weeks. When I got tired of staring at the ceiling and watching the dust collect around me, when I accepted that I didn’t actually know how to live clean, that is when I sought help in the rooms. In the rooms, we find much more effective strategies to staying clean so that we don’t have to hide in our beds.

They do include, as listed earlier: regularly attending meetings, sharing, calling other addicts in recovery, finding a sponsor, working the steps, studying the literature, getting involved in service, being rigorously honest, remaining vigilant, following suggestions, sticking with the winners, doing whatever it takes to get clean and stay that way (and for an addict, in my belief, practicing complete abstinence from all mind and mood altering chemicals), and anything else you can think of.

As for the money/trigger issue, my addict boyfriend and I spent an absolute fortune on drugs. We made a lot of money, spent it all as soon as it came in and wound up searching under couch cushions for change to buy more drugs. I chose drugs over everything, including food, sleep, basic human needs. Having money as a trigger is not a new thing, a unique thing or something that is impossible to overcome. We still recover.

Those of us who have been making the program work know that we can do together what I cannot do alone, but I am the only one who can do the work on me that is required for my recovery.

I am reminded of something from Tradition Three.

“The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop using.”

“Desire is the key word; desire is the basis of our recovery. In our stories and in our experience of trying to carry the message of recovery to the addict who still suffers, one painful fact of life has emerged again and again. An addict who does not want to stop using will not stop using. They can be analyzed, counseled, reasoned with, prayed over, threatened, beaten, or locked up, but they will not stop until they want to stop. The only thing we ask of our members is that they have this desire. Without it they are doomed, but with it miracles will happen.”

Honesty, Open-Mindedness and Willingness are key.

I can empathize with your desire to think critically about the solutions presented in recovery -- I argued about it, fought it, resisted it and even cried over the idea of joining up with the fellowships. I thought critical thinking was going to keep me out of the rooms – rather, critical thinking wound up being a key to my acceptance. Do what you’ve got to do, but in the mean time stay clean and keep coming back.

I believe that there is only one thing any of us really need to do in order to get clean, stay clean and recover. It might sound obtuse, but the secret is this: Whatever It Takes.

Either we're willing to become a part of the No Matter What club – as in, I will not pick up no matter what (like, not even if my a$$ falls off) – or we're not. Just for today, I am clean and profoundly grateful because of it. There is nothing on this earth that could get me to use Just For Today. I am willing to do anything and everything in order to stay clean Just For Today. If I don’t know how to handle it, I will ask for help from the winners in recovery. If I need to, I will drop to my knees and pray for it.

One day at a time.

Keep coming back.