littlefish

I wouldn't say that anonymity is an underlying principle in AA. The underlying principle is to stay sober.
I think you've misunderstood the purpose of anonymity. It is not a device to help people avoid being accountable, it is a means of allowing us to maintain privacy and safety.

One of the sacred principles of AA IS accountability, and if you have done the steps as you claim, you would know that steps 8 and 9 are all about accountability....

AA gives you the option of choosing to believe in a higher power as you choose to percieve it.

mumbai78

The reason for anonymity is to place principles before personalities...seems fair enough to have a program that does not let personalitities get in the way of staying sober/clean.

joedris

Posting deleted

Outvoid

When I first got into recovery, I did a lot of intellectualizing.

I was an atheist, so I decided that 12-step progams wouldn't work for me.

I was a nihilist, so I decided that the concept of "Higher Power" wouldn't work for me.

I got irritated at people in meetings, so I decided that meetings wouldn't work for me.

I found the slogans silly (eg. "One day at a time", "easy does it", etc), so I decided that meetings and slogans were silly and wouldn't work for me.

I thought the steps were humiliating, so I decided the steps wouldn't work for me.

I thought I was unique and nobody could possibly understand my issues.

My 'addict' was delighted. I stayed in my addictions for two more years.

What I found is that I don't have to agree with everything in the program. I don't have to agree with everything in the Big Book, Green Book, or 12x12. I don't have to say a slogan or prayer I don't like.

But if I want to be sober, I have to work a program of recovery.

--Outvoid--

emmanuel2012

Its more than mind over matter,
Its Spirit over matter.
Addiction comes from latin; "addictos" means Devotion.
I don't need to prove to anyone that I am no longer a drug addict
But that does not negate the truth that I am no longer a drug addict.
I also no longer have bipolar disorder.
I have recovered
And if u don't believe my methodology,
I assure you that I am of sound body mind and spirit
When I say, again, oh hell yes
I have recovered
My approach is more than intellectual,
It is completely sane, rational and tangible.
I have recovered
knowing full well that I am whatever I think I am.
And as I think, I shall be.
Therefore nevermore will I call myself something I'm not,
Its better to be silent and let fools argue foolishness.
Namaste SR

Outvoid

So allow me to ask an obvious question: why frequent this thread? Are you just here to troll? Seriously.

If you are convinced that these programs are worthless to you, what is the logical purpose of continuing to post here?

I think that are not 100% convinced of the 'truth' of your arguments. I think that you want to get into recovery, are struggling with it, and desperately want someone to convince you.

No?

Then why stay on in this thread?

--Outvoid--

emmanuel2012

Well, to be fully Honest,
I didn't have any ill mannered intentions.
When I asked if I could poke fun at AA
I only said that rhetorically. Of course I can poke fun
Of course I can challenge it.
In fact, most of my spiritual progress lately has come
From challenging the mems set forth by traditional religion
(I.e. god is an external authority)

I have shared my thoughts here in my journey
For true knowledge, and to bear/share the Light
And I have said my peace,
I have provided another means to solid recovery
Yet again, all I have provided is truth, vitality, and, noble energy
I have provided value, in this forum of what is recovery.
And AA/NA rightfully claims no monopoly on this.
it is up to you the see the Light.

I am healed, and I wanted to share with everyone how I healed.
But those of you with convictions about how it works and what it is will not be able to see the light. I have no remorse or guilt since I have not done any of you a disservice.
If you think that I have, you can get a refund of the zero cents you paid to read my truth and knowledge at the customer service desk, at the front of the store.
Thanks for shopping at Emmanuel2012-

Outvoid

Many people tell me I have a Messiah Complex, but I forgive them.

--Outvoid--

emmanuel2012

They aren't worthless, these programs.
Never had I said were they worthless.
I am not a troll, nor do I doubt what I say.
I am here to bring forth another perspective of recovery
And if it goes against your convictions of what recovery is,
Sorry, but it is what it is.
By your logic, I either have to be doubting what I say,
Or here just to **** people off, why can't I be here to
Provide my experience strength and hope?
I know my words will be able to help those with open minds,
As long as those with closed minds don't smear what I say into meaninglessness.

I'm here to spread my message of hope and recovery
that I have fully recovered from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body,
Without a program, without a god, without a systematic dogma or creed.

Now if other people would stop putting words into my mouth,
I wouldn't have to keep coming back to this thread to defend my self and my words, which have nothing but goodness behind them. I can't imagine what I will have to do next to show you all that I am completely serious about being healed and fully recovered. This is not a joke nor am I justa troll.

I wish nothing but goodness upon u, SR

mistycshore

Ummm, because he started this thread?

good grief.

There are people here who choose to "work" no "program" and adhere to no set procedures regarding recovery. Since such is not a requirement for participating on SR, there is no logical reason for them not to post here. Even if there were such a requirement on SR, I can think of reasons a non-program person might post here, those reasons being in perfect accord with the principles of logic. Also, this particular forum is not about "programs" but about exploring "What is Recovery?", which could be why this forum is so named.

I find the thread interesting. Anonymity is trickier than it appears. For instance, when asked, President Bush claimed no participation in AA. Well, if he had at some point been in AA and respected the traditions, wouldn't the spiritual principle of anonymity have forced him to lie about his participation in AA.

From logician to hall monitor to psychic?

emmanuel2012

Oh, and I thought about what u said.
I Do care about what others think and how I am perceived,
Because there is such a thing called Ethos.
I attacked anonymity as a spiritual principle. It lacks individuation.
My contention is still that personality is part of what made me a drugaddict
So by taking personality out of it and giving addiction/alcohlism and one size fitsall medical condition dosent help much, imho.

Outvoid

It's one thing to express your views.

It's another to declare that everyone else is wrong.

Sometimes logic is wasted on people. Logically, it would make sense to take your arguments to one of the bases that *specifically* deals with them because people would be more receptive to it there.

I've been around message boards for a long time and you strike me as a troll by both your comments and your arguments. I could be wrong, though.

Whatever the case, I wish you the best in your recovery.

--Outvoid--

Ann

This thread has gone off topic and is becoming a debate, so I am temporarily closing it for review by the other mods.

Thank you for understanding.

Anna

I have removed numerous posts from this thread.

Some posts were suggesting a heroin trial period. Some posts were telling the poster he should not be in this forum. And, one was removed for personal bashing.