notofeudalism

I hear you and read you post, but saying it cannot be cured is false. Many diseases have been cured. To give up and say it cant gives authority to those who would "manage" it for you.

Pilgrim

Im not quite sure how you can disagree with someone's experience.

My problem is gone. My programme worked for me. The problem I had with alcohol has vanished. I would rather stick needles in my eyes than drink. I got sane about alcohol. I have my family back. I am living a life beyond my dreams. I am acutely aware that staying recovered is contingent on a daily reprieve I get from working my program.

I followed the instructions because I was a desperate drunk who had nothing left but to throw myself into this with every last ounce of energy I had left. I was drinking so much every day I was peeing and vomitting blood and then even when I was drinking more than ever I couldn't feel drunk any more. I tried to kill myself several times because I thought I couldn't live drinking and I couldn't live without drinking and there seemed to be absolutely no way out.

So - if I want to call myself recovered because it might give hope to someone who is going through the same torture I did, I don't really care if people agree with me or disagree.

Or maybe you would like to know exactly what I did to recover?

notofeudalism

I read what you posted and I have experienced similar, though not exactly what you have. Im not disagreeing with anyone's experience., including yours. Im offering my opinion. If you problem is gone, and has vanished and has worked, that is great. Your program however, does not apply to everyone. If you followed instructions because you were desperate that is cool too. If you would like to post what you did to "recover", you are welcome to do that, and I would not object at all.

Tosh

That sounds like a not very happy existence, and I used to have similair feelings too. I thought life had always dealt me a crappy hand of cards, and that's why I drank.

Now, I don't believe The Programme of AA can cure depression, no more than it can cure cancer, but it can sort out anxiety and alcohol addiction; it has for me; it can also cure a sh!tty life.

Why don't you give it a go; you've absolutely nothing to lose.

I think AA can help with depression though. A close friend of mine in AA suffers with severe depression (so bad that he doesn't leave the house and won't even answer his phone when he's suffering) and he says the programme helps.

Bamboozle

1. There is currently no cure for addiction.

2. I have not given up...I'm just something called "realistic" and "responsible for my actions."

3. I am the one who manages my addictions. No one does it for me.


Funny, noto, you're very opposed to the addiction treatment industry...yet you have nothing to say about the alcohol industry. Do you think Anheuser-Busch has your best interests at heart? Alcohol companies count on people like us to stay active in addiction. If you want to keep drinking that's most certainly your choice.

Bamboozle

Uh...dude...I don't think you understand what I wrote. The point is I'm doing much better now.

I don't need AA.

I am very happy with my recovery.

Boleo

Those of us who have experienced a spiritual awakening are caught in a "Double Bind". We are obliged to carry the message to other alcoholics but we are also
likely to be accused of being Proselytizers if we do.

People who fight the urge to drink one-day-at-a-time sometimes resent the
suggestion that there might be a better way simply because it sounds like a Mystical experience (which it is).

CarolD

Ok....my drinking time line.....
and why I started to drink

I was raised in middle class midwestern America.
No one in my family drank to my knowledge
and I knew everyone in my small close family
includeing 2 Great Grandmothers.
We were very religious ..active in church and community services.

My high school was large with many social activities
After games and dances....the boys often had liquor
in their cars....probably to loosen up their dates morals.
Heck...I thought it was sophisticated and fun!

A few years later...as a Mom and an Army wife..
drinking was something we did when we were
at the Officers Club or when entertaining.
Never a problem ....just part of my life.

After my dovroce and my 3 children were living
900 miles from me.....I worked in the hospitality
industry .....llots of free flowing booze ...cash ...
everyone I knew drank excessively.
I willingly participated ....adding recreational
drugs at various times. I drank daily for about 25 years.

The last 5...I was dealing with unexpected
unexplained depression. Nothing external was
happening...but I became mentally unstable.

When diagnosed with situational depression ...AA
was suggested. Wow! Who? Me?.....

Oh yes! Me! At the end of 2 months of AA
recovery....my depression had vanished...no meds required.
It has not returned in the last 20 years.

Sooo...I started to drink and continued to drink for fun
then.....all the fun bottles were empty.

I sincerely hope my sharing will help someone else
find the joy my AA recovery gives me.

Tosh

I don't feel obliged to carry the message; I want to because I know it works; and you don't have to be a special sort of person for AA to work on you.

I thought it wasn't for me because I was agnostic bordering on aethist, and I'm a manual worker with no interest in spirituality; but I was beaten by alcohol to try it as a last resort, and it ruddy well worked; amazingly.

But, as AA promises, it does much more than stop you drinking (that's just a minor part), it makes you see life through a completely different set of glasses (to steal a phrase).

And it's tough when you see someone whose suffering like we used to suffer, just carry on suffering - whistling like a small boy in the dark - when we know there's a real solution to kill that alcohol problem dead, and give you a happier life to boot as almost a fringe benifit.

That's what's I find the toughest, knowing something works, but not able to communicate it in a way that they'll believe.

notofeudalism

You are right, there is currently no cure. There may be one day. I also agree with your second assertion. but number three is my point. If you are the one who manages your addiction, why the need for any type of program? If no one does it for you, why the need for an industry that has been built up and makes billions of dollars "helping" people, if you are the one that does it in the frist place? I think alcohol and beer companies have nothing in mind except to make a profit.

They could care less about me as a person and will gladly take my money. They do not have my interests at heart.

notofeudalism

I always thought one of the tenets of AA was it was by attraction, not promotion. If AA members are obliged to carry the message to others, that is promoting it and contradictory.

notofeudalism

Thank you for your story CarolD. It add a lot of insight.

Tosh

Part of Step 12 says we should try to carry this message to alcoholics, and Tradition 11 says:

I don't think that Tradition 11 is contradictory to Step 12; I think one of the reasons AA has this tradition is to try and stop famous people 'advertising AA' on tv, for example during interviews, and then slipping, getting drunk; leaving suffering alcoholics to think, 'Well, AA doesn't work then!'

I'm no expert on the Traditions, so don't rely on what I say too much in this department, but I hope that explains what could appear to be a contradictory message.

Bamboozle

I decided that no alcohol company will be the arbiter of my health.

I guess you could call what I do a “program“...but it's nothing by the book…or any book.

I cannot stay stopped on my own and I most certainly cannot think my way out of depression. These are concrete facts for me. I’ve relapsed several times before I reached out for help beyond SR.

There isn't anyone forcing me to get help except for myself.

No one can make me get out of bed. No one can make me eat. No one can make me go to therapy. No one can make me take my meds. No one can think for me. No one can tell me what to do and get me to do it. All decisions I make are informed and are my own.

My decision to go sober was a wise one…but not as wise as receiving help for depression and anxiety. Because my mental illnesses are being managed through me by means of my doctor and therapist I can better manage my addiction to alcohol.


The management of my conditions has to do with me being responsible for taking my meds when and how I’m supposed to, going to therapy, and doing lots of self-work.

I am not helpless. I am competent and am making sound decisions regarding my life. Help is available and I make use of it. I’d be dead now if I didn’t do this five months ago. I almost waited too long.

Are you saying that all people in the addiction industry only care about my money? I know my therapist would disagree with that one...she already knows that I don't have insurance and not much money and she offered to send me to someone who would take me for free or on a sliding scale. I declined because my therapist rocks. She has helped to pull me up out of my hell.

Perhaps you can do this on your own. I don’t know anything about you…all I know of are my experiences.

I am looking forward to reading about what personal methods you are using to quit drinking and to stay sober and feel good about it.

Tosh

Bamboozle,

You sound like you've got a good 'programme' and it's great you've got specialists helping you; and I mean that; from the little I know about depression (my wife and many in her family suffer with it), it's ruddy terrible.

However there's nothing to stop you complimenting what you're already doing by going to AA; AA isn't against therepy or prescribed drugs and if anyone tells you it is they're wrong because no-one can speak on behalf of AA and there's nothing in our literature saying we're against it.

So have you ever thought of having a try at AA?

Okay, okay, I know I know, I'll shut up!



Oh, added later; I recently met a therapist in AA! I kid you not.

Bamboozle

When I say that something is not for me I mean it.

I have no desire to try AA.

It's fine for those who want it. I don't want it.

bugsworth

noto...you hit the nail on the head when you said...."why the need for an industry that has been built up and makes billions of dollars" money is at the root of the "recovery" industry.

joedris

If you go to the AA web site, there's a list of the things that AA doesn't do. The first thing on the list is that AA doesn't provide motivation, and the second is that AA doesn't recruit members. AA is a program of attraction, not promotion. As a member of AA, I try to carry the message to other alcoholics, but I certainly don't proselytize (I hope). I carry that message by saying that the program worked for me. I will suggest that someone try AA, but If you don't want to that's fine. Do whatever works for you. As Bill Wilson said, AA doesn't have a monopoly on sobriety.

Boleo

>> When I say that something is not for me I mean it."

"As psychiatrists have often observed, defiance is the outstanding characteristic of many an alcoholic" (12&12 page 31)

bugsworth

Boleo...citing the bb or the 12x12 has absolutely no relevance for many sober alcoholics and I am always fascinated by how many times a person will share that aa is not a treatment method that they wish to employ yet the bb quotes will come rolling out. Why do this? It is fruitless...the bb is an opinion...you share the opinion...many don’t. Defiance as described in the bb has no relevance here in fact defiance is a trait inherent in all humans and is not exclusive to alcoholics.