What if recovery *means* taking drugs?
Your Distant Friend
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by tsukiko 
Great post Emmanuel, and by the way the name? Isn't any reference to a certain German born Philosopher is it?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
!
Originally Posted by emmanuel2012
The only cure to sickness is health. Think Health, Do Health, Be Health, and, by God, you find yourself Healed. I swear it works!!!
We don't have to live. We are living because we want to.
So, its all about desire anyway. To manifest health and happinesss,
Find out what that means to you. Take meds or not, its ultimately up to you.
We are responsible for our own afflictions, and happiness, some say even our own existence.
To know yourself, .. is so fundamental
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
So also "if you hold on tight, to what you think is your thing,
You may find, you're missing all the rest, ..and a lifetime's
Past you by.." -dave matthews "jimi thing"
Have a blessed day, and thanks for the discussion.
We don't have to live. We are living because we want to.
So, its all about desire anyway. To manifest health and happinesss,
Find out what that means to you. Take meds or not, its ultimately up to you.
We are responsible for our own afflictions, and happiness, some say even our own existence.
To know yourself, .. is so fundamental
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
So also "if you hold on tight, to what you think is your thing,
You may find, you're missing all the rest, ..and a lifetime's
Past you by.." -dave matthews "jimi thing"
Have a blessed day, and thanks for the discussion.
Sometimes there just is no right correction or cure for what is percieved as a wrongness or an illness. Sometimes things are exactly what they appear to be, and other times they are not. We all see thru a looking glass with a lense shaped from the machinations of our own life experiences. Having said that, life can be an endless experience of various speculations revealed by each distinctive lense. IMO, speculations waste resources, although they do fuel imaginations, which does have some value. I earnestly attempt to achieve a balance of what i percieve and what i can actually achieve *in my real life* in respect to those perceptions. In other words, i build my life on results of my past efforts and not on my future hopes. Hope does have a place of course, but more as a mirror looking backward rather then a glass looking forward.
I am not entirely responsible for my own afflictions, although i am entirely responsible TO my own afflictions. I enjoy the distinctions!
In life is all the good and the bad. And in life is also death and disease, as much a part of life as is good health. I do not think it is useful to have a "cure" for all things. i certainly do not believe we can "think" our way into "all cures" just as i do not believe we "think" ourselves into illness. results. results. results. evaluate. adjust. move on.
i do of course believe that our mental atititude and direction has alot to do with our overall health. And in that manner i am in complete agreement with your post. I just am not in agreement with your full philosophy standing on what you wrote. Thanks for adding to the discussion in a meaningful way.
Cheers!
Your Distant Friend
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot
I am not entirely responsible for my own afflictions, although i am entirely responsible TO my own afflictions. I enjoy the distinctions!
Many others would certainly not agree too,
With the idea of Karma,
Including that part that our souls
Choose our parents, and natal envrinment.
What's important to me in my path is to recognize
that victimization usually gets nowhere, for both parties.
People that have been raped, murder-attempted, abused,
Usually do not find any peace and solace in pointing fingers.
Jails don't solve anything effectively, nor do waste landfills.
Its no ones "fault" that the world is this way, nor is it the
Fault of people who contribute to its darkness.
We on earth have a choice between Light and Darkness,
And things are not going to be totally whitewashed with Light
In order for us to be able to see the Beauty in all things.
Victimization or feeling harmed or afflicated
usually leads to violence and intolerance, and more ignorace,
Without enough compassion and forgiveness
To understand that we are not the ones to Judge,
We have a sacred drop of Godliness in us,
And its definately not enough to see the whole story,
We may never be incapable of seeing the whole
Violence usually is a symptom of the battle,
The spiritual war that most people have with their own Ego.
That every person is seperate in soul, will and Ego
Is the illusion that we are born into,
And true Liberation comes from transcending this illusion.
I personally believe that in Spirit, we are One.
Its a hard pill to swallow and a truth that usually
Is not accepted without a battle,
You don't have to agree or disagree,
To me. I'm glad you shared this contention.
Every apparent contradiction that my philosophy might
Bring to yours, is nothing more than either a longing,
Or a denial of such longing, to seperate your beliefs from
The text that is only one reflection of the the truth I attempted to present.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
I think the choice is always yours tsukiko and I wish you well with whatever you decide.
There's been a lot of opinion here and a lot of it skates pretty damn close to medical advice for my money.
This may not be your experience, but I remember self medication and self diagnosis being a big part of my addiction. I found a lot of my reticence to look for help, canvass the options - and sometimes yes, to follow directions - was pride and fear.
I'm not an AAer but my life is immeasurably better since I admitted my life was unmanageable in a lot of other areas beside my DOC.
In my recovery I look for other opinions and other perspectives because, just maybe, I don't always know whats best for me.
It works for me. I hope you find what works for you...but do canvass every opinion you can get - this board is not, and should not, be a medical advisor.
good luck with your journey
D
There's been a lot of opinion here and a lot of it skates pretty damn close to medical advice for my money.
This may not be your experience, but I remember self medication and self diagnosis being a big part of my addiction. I found a lot of my reticence to look for help, canvass the options - and sometimes yes, to follow directions - was pride and fear.
I'm not an AAer but my life is immeasurably better since I admitted my life was unmanageable in a lot of other areas beside my DOC.
In my recovery I look for other opinions and other perspectives because, just maybe, I don't always know whats best for me.
It works for me. I hope you find what works for you...but do canvass every opinion you can get - this board is not, and should not, be a medical advisor.
good luck with your journey
D
Attended By a Single Hound
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: England
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by Dee74
I think the choice is always yours tsukiko and I wish you well with whatever you decide.
There's been a lot of opinion here and a lot of it skates pretty damn close to medical advice for my money.
good luck with your journey
D
There's been a lot of opinion here and a lot of it skates pretty damn close to medical advice for my money.
good luck with your journey
D
Just really inerested in what y'all have to say and all y'own experiences.
Ha ha, Robby...no aliens or animals were harmed...upset / excited humans...hmm not sure which catagory I trip into there XD
Great to hear from you Robby, think of you often mate.
Very thought provoking post too...wasn't expecting any less when I saw you'd posted. Only hoping some others find it as worth thinking on as I am.
Anyhow, cheers is in order, to you Robby and to y'all...Big cheers for all y'wisdom guys and for keeping bs outa' the thread...makes it far more interesting. Ta guys.
You have my respect Robby, and you know it. I'll leave it at that for now. Time to think...I think
lol.Oh and to Emmanuel: I know Kant spelt it with an I, just wondered 'cause of what you said, mate ^^.
Going to finish up with this quote (whatever anyone's opinions are, it just felt applicable to them all...):
'To be nobody but yourself -in a world which is doing is best, night and day, to make you everybody else- means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight and never stop fighting.' -e.e.cummings
Your Distant Friend
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: pittsburgh, pa
Posts: 255
I should also note humbly here one of my personal defects
That sometimes stands in the way of being useful to others
Is the apparent desire to be right
I'm not always right, only the truth is,
And as a human all I can do is reflect it.
I create distortions, as I create truths.
I do both of these things to learn.
The lessons I learn usually do not come from
Creating truth, but from creating distortions.
Learning the lesson is usually not a process
Of accepting truths alone, but acceptions the
Distortion as a true attempt to build knowledge.
All attempts to build knowledge, however unfruitful,
Are tiny steps to actual knowing.
I say these affirmations wishing nothing but goodness
On anyone that may be afflicted to by any illness, since
I have compassion for the sick. I do still however
From solid working experience with others in addiction,
And also those with mental illness and other "incurable"
Diseases, that the most noticable and amazing healing
Transformations have occured when a sick person stops
Blaming or pointing fingers,... these epiphanies, that also
Occure to many people, are the turning point into a better
Way of thinking about their ilnes, away from attacking problems
And into researching and developing personal solutions.
Join creation, or Join detruction. Focus on health to be healthy,
Or focus on your illness to stay sick. As you think, so shall you be.
A sick person depending on others alone for the cause of,
And solution to, their problems, usually do not heal.
It has been said that a quote from a saint
Sums up the basic instructions for studying Quantum Physics:
"That which is seen does not come from that doth appear"- St. Paul
If none of this helps, ill shut up, hehe thanks again for letting me share.
That sometimes stands in the way of being useful to others
Is the apparent desire to be right
I'm not always right, only the truth is,
And as a human all I can do is reflect it.
I create distortions, as I create truths.
I do both of these things to learn.
The lessons I learn usually do not come from
Creating truth, but from creating distortions.
Learning the lesson is usually not a process
Of accepting truths alone, but acceptions the
Distortion as a true attempt to build knowledge.
All attempts to build knowledge, however unfruitful,
Are tiny steps to actual knowing.
I say these affirmations wishing nothing but goodness
On anyone that may be afflicted to by any illness, since
I have compassion for the sick. I do still however
From solid working experience with others in addiction,
And also those with mental illness and other "incurable"
Diseases, that the most noticable and amazing healing
Transformations have occured when a sick person stops
Blaming or pointing fingers,... these epiphanies, that also
Occure to many people, are the turning point into a better
Way of thinking about their ilnes, away from attacking problems
And into researching and developing personal solutions.
Join creation, or Join detruction. Focus on health to be healthy,
Or focus on your illness to stay sick. As you think, so shall you be.
A sick person depending on others alone for the cause of,
And solution to, their problems, usually do not heal.
It has been said that a quote from a saint
Sums up the basic instructions for studying Quantum Physics:
"That which is seen does not come from that doth appear"- St. Paul
If none of this helps, ill shut up, hehe thanks again for letting me share.
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by emmanuel2012
I should also note humbly here one of my personal defects
That sometimes stands in the way of being useful to others
Is the apparent desire to be right
I'm not always right, only the truth is,
And as a human all I can do is reflect it.
I create distortions, as I create truths.
I do both of these things to learn.
That sometimes stands in the way of being useful to others
Is the apparent desire to be right
I'm not always right, only the truth is,
And as a human all I can do is reflect it.
I create distortions, as I create truths.
I do both of these things to learn.
Zen Nihilist
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 147
Hi Tsukiko,
I really enjoyed reading this thread, thank you.
What you've said about your interactions with the medical community in treating your mental illness was so astute, I think. I'm not bipolar, but I have recurrent suicidal depression. I've been on a couple different SSRIs in the past, and while they treated the depression, in the process, they took away the very things that make life worth living. I hated not being myself, not having any real emotions, all the sexual dysfunction. All my creativity and ambition went out the window. When I look back on those two years, I was like a robot, a Stepford wife or something, just totally complacent and not a care in the world. If you told me I should jump off a bridge, I'd have said, "Ok, cool, whatever." It's hard to explain the drastic change, b/c I was detatched and ambivalent before, but this was infinitely worse. I lost what it means to be human. And things didn't right themselves for a very long time after I stopped the SSRI.
A lot of people might say, "Well isn't that better than being dead?" And I would reply, "Not when the things that make life so wonderful, like love and joy and desire and passion and pleasure and orgasms are taken out of the picture." I understand the good comes with the bad, and if I can't handle the bad then I can't have the good either. Uh oh, I'm getting tangled in this tangent.
The point is, I refuse to go on SSRIs again. Or SNRIs. That's no quality of life. I related so much to your posts b/c, just recently, the AD I'm on (which I like a lot) was giving me heart palpitations. My psych freaked out and took me off it right away and put me on an SNRI. I was so pissed, but it happened so fast, and those palps are a really serious side effect, so I didn't feel like I had a choice at the time. After only a week, I could already feel the sexual dysfunction setting in, the cravings for stimulants returning, and it was just all around awful. I demanded to be put back on the bupropion, and the psych acquiesced. If the palps come back, I will add a med to treat those (it's been done before). I'd rather live, possibly die, with them than go on an SS/NRI. Unfortunately, not treating the depression pharmaceutically isn't an option right now, because suicide is so likely if I don't. I'm pretty ambivalent about that eventuality, but my family isn't so I'll give this a shot.
What I most wanted to say is that I was very scared coming into this whole last treatment episode, b/c I thought I might end up being left with only SS/NRIs as options. I would have chosen suicide over that. That sounds really dramatic, but it's reality and I think you get it, tsukiko.
It's the same with every med on the planet - I have to weigh the benefits over the adverse events. If the effects of the meds are less liveable than the symptoms I am treating, then obviously, I'm not going to take the meds. My psych tried to put me on Topamax on a weird whim one visit, and I researched it and decided I would not take it b/c the possible side-effects would have been the worst things in the world for my particular situation. My psych also blows pretty hard, and as you note in one of your posts, he's only there to prescribe meds. I have to do all the careful thinking.
Thanks for reading!
I really enjoyed reading this thread, thank you.
What you've said about your interactions with the medical community in treating your mental illness was so astute, I think. I'm not bipolar, but I have recurrent suicidal depression. I've been on a couple different SSRIs in the past, and while they treated the depression, in the process, they took away the very things that make life worth living. I hated not being myself, not having any real emotions, all the sexual dysfunction. All my creativity and ambition went out the window. When I look back on those two years, I was like a robot, a Stepford wife or something, just totally complacent and not a care in the world. If you told me I should jump off a bridge, I'd have said, "Ok, cool, whatever." It's hard to explain the drastic change, b/c I was detatched and ambivalent before, but this was infinitely worse. I lost what it means to be human. And things didn't right themselves for a very long time after I stopped the SSRI.
A lot of people might say, "Well isn't that better than being dead?" And I would reply, "Not when the things that make life so wonderful, like love and joy and desire and passion and pleasure and orgasms are taken out of the picture." I understand the good comes with the bad, and if I can't handle the bad then I can't have the good either. Uh oh, I'm getting tangled in this tangent.
The point is, I refuse to go on SSRIs again. Or SNRIs. That's no quality of life. I related so much to your posts b/c, just recently, the AD I'm on (which I like a lot) was giving me heart palpitations. My psych freaked out and took me off it right away and put me on an SNRI. I was so pissed, but it happened so fast, and those palps are a really serious side effect, so I didn't feel like I had a choice at the time. After only a week, I could already feel the sexual dysfunction setting in, the cravings for stimulants returning, and it was just all around awful. I demanded to be put back on the bupropion, and the psych acquiesced. If the palps come back, I will add a med to treat those (it's been done before). I'd rather live, possibly die, with them than go on an SS/NRI. Unfortunately, not treating the depression pharmaceutically isn't an option right now, because suicide is so likely if I don't. I'm pretty ambivalent about that eventuality, but my family isn't so I'll give this a shot.
What I most wanted to say is that I was very scared coming into this whole last treatment episode, b/c I thought I might end up being left with only SS/NRIs as options. I would have chosen suicide over that. That sounds really dramatic, but it's reality and I think you get it, tsukiko.
It's the same with every med on the planet - I have to weigh the benefits over the adverse events. If the effects of the meds are less liveable than the symptoms I am treating, then obviously, I'm not going to take the meds. My psych tried to put me on Topamax on a weird whim one visit, and I researched it and decided I would not take it b/c the possible side-effects would have been the worst things in the world for my particular situation. My psych also blows pretty hard, and as you note in one of your posts, he's only there to prescribe meds. I have to do all the careful thinking.
Thanks for reading!
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