Addicts in AA
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
I have a desire to not drink or use but no I am not by definition an alcoholic but I am mandated to do step meetings and try finding 90 NA meetings in a row it's not possible. I had to go to AA.
The AA meetings I attended were full of addicts and alcoholics and as along as you stuck to a topic that was affecting your sobriety it did not matter but I never spoke up much just because I am a bit shy.
I do think it's important to AA to keep the topics to alcohol and keep to the traditions of being about alcohol. I don't think that excluding addicts is somehow right. Something about it seems wrong and intolerant but I can see if the addict is going on about drugs. I don't relate to about 90% of the addict stories myself but I can find similarities if I look instead of differences. Many areas don't have NA meetings so a person like me being mandated has to go to AA. If the members were intolerant I can foresee many a needy person perhaps being turned away at the door. The steps are almost identical in NA to AA except for NA believing alcohol is a drug. I think that if one goes with the neural pathway brain disease route that the AMA is saying that alcohol and drugs work on the identical pathways. And if you believe that addiction to alcohol and drugs is a spiritual problem then the steps would work for either group.
I am not a diehard about either group but if does feel like some AA people are not tolerant. I am grateful that the AA meetings were tolerant of me taking up a chair in the rooms.
The AA meetings I attended were full of addicts and alcoholics and as along as you stuck to a topic that was affecting your sobriety it did not matter but I never spoke up much just because I am a bit shy.
I do think it's important to AA to keep the topics to alcohol and keep to the traditions of being about alcohol. I don't think that excluding addicts is somehow right. Something about it seems wrong and intolerant but I can see if the addict is going on about drugs. I don't relate to about 90% of the addict stories myself but I can find similarities if I look instead of differences. Many areas don't have NA meetings so a person like me being mandated has to go to AA. If the members were intolerant I can foresee many a needy person perhaps being turned away at the door. The steps are almost identical in NA to AA except for NA believing alcohol is a drug. I think that if one goes with the neural pathway brain disease route that the AMA is saying that alcohol and drugs work on the identical pathways. And if you believe that addiction to alcohol and drugs is a spiritual problem then the steps would work for either group.
I am not a diehard about either group but if does feel like some AA people are not tolerant. I am grateful that the AA meetings were tolerant of me taking up a chair in the rooms.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,949
I know a few addicts that go to AA. As far as I know they identify as alcoholics and yet privately I have been told they never had an alcohol problem because they didn't drink to begin with. For the most part I hear them sharing about recovery stuff in such a general way so who would know if they were alcoholics or what. Admittedly the meeting I attend are very liberal (a left coast thing I don't know) and frequently people in meetings will identify as an alcoholic and addict. So I'm sure the meetings I attend break with traditions and what not...however they are supported by a large core of regulars.
As someone that realizes the benefit of a therapeutic community of ones peers engaged in active addiction treatment, the AA meetings that I attend are extremely helpful for my continued sobriety.
As someone that realizes the benefit of a therapeutic community of ones peers engaged in active addiction treatment, the AA meetings that I attend are extremely helpful for my continued sobriety.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Meditation,
It is about having a primary purpose. To be effective, a group must have one single aim.
But you are right about the steps working for either problem. The thing to consider though is that they have a foundation of truth. Don't base your recovery on a lie because it might kill you.
Go to open AA meetings, but don't lie and say you're an alcoholic when you are not. And don't let the misinformed mislead you into believing you are an AA member. By your own admission you are not alcoholic, so therefore you are not an AA member.
It is about having a primary purpose. To be effective, a group must have one single aim.
But you are right about the steps working for either problem. The thing to consider though is that they have a foundation of truth. Don't base your recovery on a lie because it might kill you.
Go to open AA meetings, but don't lie and say you're an alcoholic when you are not. And don't let the misinformed mislead you into believing you are an AA member. By your own admission you are not alcoholic, so therefore you are not an AA member.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
Well the treatment centers are all wrong then they say believe differently. That's another can of worms.
I agree I am not an alcoholic but it's weird to me that I am told I can cross addict to alcohol and it's one of the ingredients on my drug screen lists that I can't take. I think as long as the drug addict does not detract from the primary purpose any AA meeting would work. There is not much difference in closed and open. In fact I can't tell the difference. The shares are the same. Open meetings are also hard to come by- but I can relate to the control issues which are the same no matter what substance. Now don't get too excited about what I post here cause I am not a huge fan of step meetings. So what I think really doesn't matter we are just having a chat on why some addicts attend AA meetings.
I agree I am not an alcoholic but it's weird to me that I am told I can cross addict to alcohol and it's one of the ingredients on my drug screen lists that I can't take. I think as long as the drug addict does not detract from the primary purpose any AA meeting would work. There is not much difference in closed and open. In fact I can't tell the difference. The shares are the same. Open meetings are also hard to come by- but I can relate to the control issues which are the same no matter what substance. Now don't get too excited about what I post here cause I am not a huge fan of step meetings. So what I think really doesn't matter we are just having a chat on why some addicts attend AA meetings.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by meditation 
Well the treatment centers are all wrong then they say believe differently. That's another can of worms.
I agree I am not an alcoholic but it's weird to me that I am told I can cross addict to alcohol and it's one of the ingredients on my drug screen lists that I can't take. I think as long as the drug addict does not detract from the primary purpose any AA meeting would work. There is not much difference in closed and open. In fact I can't tell the difference. The shares are the same. Open meetings are also hard to come by- but I can relate to the control issues which are the same no matter what substance. Now don't get too excited about what I post here cause I am not a huge fan of step meetings. So what I think really doesn't matter we are just having a chat on why some addicts attend AA meetings.
I agree I am not an alcoholic but it's weird to me that I am told I can cross addict to alcohol and it's one of the ingredients on my drug screen lists that I can't take. I think as long as the drug addict does not detract from the primary purpose any AA meeting would work. There is not much difference in closed and open. In fact I can't tell the difference. The shares are the same. Open meetings are also hard to come by- but I can relate to the control issues which are the same no matter what substance. Now don't get too excited about what I post here cause I am not a huge fan of step meetings. So what I think really doesn't matter we are just having a chat on why some addicts attend AA meetings.
The drug addict in an AA meeting does detract from the primary purpose because an AA group's primary purpose is to carry it's message to the alcoholic who still suffers and in order to effectively do that there has to be identification at depth.
If you can't tell the difference between an open and a closed AA meeting there is something wrong. And I don't mean something wrong with you either. There is something wrong with AA in your community. If you were at my home group meeting you'd know it was closed right off the bat. And if you identify as non-alcoholic you will be kindly asked to leave and directed to the nearest open meeting. Just last week the chairperson noticed on the sign in sheet that someone had put the name of a local NA group as their home group and had written "115 days clean!" beside their name. That person was asked to leave after they were asked if they had a history of alcoholism and said no.
So do AA a favor. If you're not alcoholic don't call yourself a member.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by mikefreak
We ALL have a substance abuse problem!!! Since the AA's are running the meeting, what exactly is the problem, anyway? Why the snotty noses if an addict comes to a AA meeting to keep clean for one more day? Have some people forgotten who THEY ARE & WHERE THEY COME FROM??? Sheesh!
I have no problem with addicts coming to an open meeting, but I ain't gonna lie to them and tell them they are AA members.
Threads like this always turn into a bunch of frothy emotional horseshit.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,064
Not only by the treatment centers but by the agency that drug tests me monthly. I am told that I can cross addict over to alcohol. The list of things I can't take is incredible. Most over the counter meds that might trigger a substance abuser to want their doc. The reasoning I suppose is that alcohol could become the addiction instead of the original doc. They (governing bodies, treatment centers) feel that this has been borne out by experience.
I don't argue with the powers that be I just do what I am told to keep safe. I think that some addicts could detract from an AA meeting. I know I just took a chair and listened.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
I don't argue with the powers that be I just do what I am told to keep safe. I think that some addicts could detract from an AA meeting. I know I just took a chair and listened.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
Not only by the treatment centers but by the agency that drug tests me monthly. I am told that I can cross addict over to alcohol.
AA is "Powerless over alcohol" and NA is "Powerless over our addiction"
I am not an addict and have never been one. Could I become an addict? Simple answer is "Yes I can" It happens to people every day.
Can a "Non Alcoholic" ever become an Alcoholic? No they can't
Can an Addict become "Addicted to alcohol" and not be an "Alcoholic"
Remember; NA says you are powerless over "Your Addiction" not powerless over "Alcohol"
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by meditation
Not only by the treatment centers but by the agency that drug tests me monthly. I am told that I can cross addict over to alcohol. The list of things I can't take is incredible. Most over the counter meds that might trigger a substance abuser to want their doc. The reasoning I suppose is that alcohol could become the addiction instead of the original doc. They (governing bodies, treatment centers) feel that this has been borne out by experience.
I don't argue with the powers that be I just do what I am told to keep safe. I think that some addicts could detract from an AA meeting. I know I just took a chair and listened.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
I don't argue with the powers that be I just do what I am told to keep safe. I think that some addicts could detract from an AA meeting. I know I just took a chair and listened.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
I've been physically addicted to speed. This was also during the years of my worst alcoholism. I used speed to manage alcoholism. But the speed got to be such a problem that I decided to quit and did. Not without some withdrawal, which wasn't fun. Based on that I chose to never use speed again and haven't since. That was six years before the end of my drinking. So I am not a drug addict, I am alcoholic who had a drug problem. Stop using drugs, problem solved. Just taking drugs doesn't make you a drug addict any more than just drinking alcohol makes you an alcoholic.
Please don't think I am saying it is OK for you to drink alcohol, because I'm not. You or may not be an alcoholic, but just about every addict I've seen play that game ends up back on the drug they really have no choice over. I can take or leave drugs, but I am not going to kid myself and think that I could use drugs and not really end up back drinking alcohol.
That brings to mind a guy I used to know. This guy had been around AA for years when he asked me to sponsor him. He couldn't get honest in The First Step. He was a heroin addict who wanted to base his recovery on the lie that he was alcoholic. This was reinforced by well-meaning but mis-informed AA members who told him that he could be a member. He kept relapsing. Every time he went out he would have a few beers, score some dope, and end up holed up in some sleazy motel room all strung out. After awhile I had to drop him because he wouldn't get honest and I couldn't help him. His experience with alcohol made it obvious that he wasn't alcoholic, but he couldn't or wouldn't admit that truth to himself. Six years ago he was found in a motel room in East L.A. with a needle in his arm.
We kill addicts in AA when we don't stick to our single purpose and we don't do the alcoholics any good either.
Jim
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,949
Originally Posted by meditation
Not only by the treatment centers but by the agency that drug tests me monthly. I am told that I can cross addict over to alcohol. The list of things I can't take is incredible. Most over the counter meds that might trigger a substance abuser to want their doc. The reasoning I suppose is that alcohol could become the addiction instead of the original doc. They (governing bodies, treatment centers) feel that this has been borne out by experience.
Originally Posted by meditation
I don't argue with the powers that be I just do what I am told to keep safe. I think that some addicts could detract from an AA meeting. I know I just took a chair and listened.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
In rehab we had no choice we were put into a van and delievered to the steps of AA. So I suppose that the AA meetings were okay with us being there or surely they would have an agreement with the centers to not have us in fact they seemed to greatly enjoy having us. I would never hurt the hurting alcoholic by sharing about prescription drugs. But it does not bother me in an NA meeting to hear about someone sharing about alcohol cause I realize they are having a problem with a substance. I am not hardline NA so maybe the group leaders or members are bothered by it I don't know really. I have never heard any NA group be upset about this issue. But I would assume that the AA rooms are full of people that are sex addicts and gamblers etc as those meetings are hard to find I would think if NA is hard to find. I have no idea what those folks do.
I think there is value to be had by an addict attending AA because I for sure never want to pick up alcohol now after hearing about the stories in AA. Addiction is just not fun no matter what a person is addicted to. So many times I wish I could go back into time and fix life but I realize there is some purpose at work here greater than my own understanding. I am getting better daily.
I do see that this is not the case everywhere in AA but it was an enlightening experience to be in the meetings we were accepted.
TheMostSordidSpotOnEarth
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ParadiseOnEarth
Posts: 811
What happens if you had a history of alcoholic or at least alcoholic-style behaviors, reduced the alcohol abuse on your own and, within a year of doing so, wound up getting addicted to a drug? Assume that the drug abuse brought the alcohol abuse to a minimum.
Maybe NA might be a better fit at that point, but if there's only one 12 step meeting in your native language and it's through AA, what would you say then?
I'm asking honestly. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe NA might be a better fit at that point, but if there's only one 12 step meeting in your native language and it's through AA, what would you say then?
I'm asking honestly. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by SteppingItUp
What happens if you had a history of alcoholic or at least alcoholic-style behaviors, reduced the alcohol abuse on your own and, within a year of doing so, wound up getting addicted to a drug? Assume that the drug abuse brought the alcohol abuse to a minimum.
Maybe NA might be a better fit at that point, but if there's only one 12 step meeting in your native language and it's through AA, what would you say then?
I'm asking honestly. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.
Maybe NA might be a better fit at that point, but if there's only one 12 step meeting in your native language and it's through AA, what would you say then?
I'm asking honestly. I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place.
A man came who been a heroin addict but before that he drank alcoholically for years. Bill said they had to let him in.
I'm assuming you are alcoholic. If you are not sure, find someone in AA who has a clue, in other words, find some one to help you find out.
jim
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
I believe AA will help you decide Stepping it up.
I have been under the impression that an open meeting was for those that weren't sure if they were alcoholic or not. The purpose of an open meeting was a place for the uncertain to go find out by tapping the knowledge of the group and see if they qualified as an alcoholic. If they did actually qualify as an alcoholic, then they could become members.
I have been under the impression that an open meeting was for those that weren't sure if they were alcoholic or not. The purpose of an open meeting was a place for the uncertain to go find out by tapping the knowledge of the group and see if they qualified as an alcoholic. If they did actually qualify as an alcoholic, then they could become members.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Originally Posted by mikefreak
I wish to apologize for the crack I made about Bill W. yesterday. Bill W. was a great man who helped millions. Not one of my best moments, & I meant NO disrespect............Sorry.
No biggie. I have no illusions about Bill Wilson. He was just an alcoholic with a lot of problems. God sure chooses strange people to carry his message.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Originally Posted by Pinkcuda
Can a "Non Alcoholic" ever become an Alcoholic? No they can't
Can an Addict become "Addicted to alcohol" and not be an "Alcoholic"
Remember; NA says you are powerless over "Your Addiction" not powerless over "Alcohol"
Can an Addict become "Addicted to alcohol" and not be an "Alcoholic"
Remember; NA says you are powerless over "Your Addiction" not powerless over "Alcohol"
When a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around does it still make a sound?
If you are addicted to alcohol and also an addict, are you not an alcoholic and also an addict?
And actually, every person who abuses a substance (and yes, alcohol is a substance, no matter which dictionary definition you use of substance, look it up if you don't believe me.) has more in common with each other than we have differences. However, if some people want to have fellowships where they only accept people who are addicted to their particular substance, that's fine. It's a free country.
I'm so glad I belong to an inclusive fellowship. I personally wouldn't feel right denying anyone the recovery I've enjoyed, no matter what they used to get loaded. But hey, that's just me. I have seen open AA meetings where addicts are welcomed and helped and others where they are not.
Now feel free to say something cutting and nasty to me if you want, as I've got my big girl panties on today. But when we say those things to each other, what does it say about us?
Love,
KJ
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colorado Prairie
Posts: 1,417
If you are addicted to alcohol and also an addict, are you not an alcoholic and also an addict?
Will an alcoholic resort to drugs if alcohol is not avaliable? Not as a rule. Some do but most don't. Instead, they will revert to Scope, Aqua Velva or Cooking Sherry. Rubbing alcohol is not out of the question either. I've even been known to keep yeast in the house just in case money was tight and I knew I only had a 2-3 day supply of alcohol in the house. That way I could start cooking something up and have it ready to go.
All the while I had several bottles of Vicodin in the house that I wouldn't take. The label said "Don't Drink while taking These" So I didn't take them. My story is not unique either. There are countless hundreds of thousands of Alcoholics that have never taken drugs let alone the ones that even had the desire.
Now feel free to say something cutting and nasty to me if you want,
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