oldveteran

Hi: I'll try to keep this short. I've been visiting here for a few days and am really impressed at the variety of recovery ideas.

I have 19+ years clean & sober myself and am currently working in a transitional housing program with most of our residents coming out of a 28 day treatment program.

I have been going over my own experiences in recovery and observing residents recovery (I've been there 11 years) and was wondering how important "skills" has been to your recovery.

By this I mean social skills-able to talk in a small group about something other than recovery, problems solving skills-not becoming overwhelmed by one big problem or several problems to the extent that using seems like the best solution,

Also how important has it been to you to see yourself as a "human being" again. By that I guess I mean "I'm a man and can handle what comes at me and am accepted by men in the regular world as a man" (not as necessarily someone to be treated with kid gloves because of my "problem").

Have you used a mentor? not a sponsor, but say a person in the business world whom you respect and admire.

Anyway the reason I'm asking all this is that for myself I did have mentors and a few "skills" to help me in my sobriety and it was very very important to be treated equally by men in the non-recovery world because I believe addiction took away my manhood for many years. The residents I work with seem to have a pretty good grasp on a recovery program like AA/NA when they get here but I don't see a lot of coping skills. I believe that most of us have either forgotten those skills or never learned them to begin with due to poor or no role models.

What do you think? does any of this make sense to you? Would helping people in early recovery to learn some of this stuff increase their chance of survival? I believe it did for me and because our residents are "transitioning" into the community from here it seems this would be some good tools to send them out with. Comments Please.

coffeenut

Welcome to SR! You have a good post....and will get a lot of different answers.

I think a lot of it is so individual. Personally, I have used only SR to get sober (9 months after drinking for 30 years). No AA, no sponser. I do have, however a very strong will. I've decided I'm going to be sober, therefore I am.

Certainly, though, social skills are where a lot of us fall. Myself included.

I'll peek back in on this thread....it's a good one. Not sure this forum gets looked into a lot, you may want it moved to the alcoholism forum, maybe?

Wolfchild

The skills i have learned to put the time and effort to develope come from the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions of a spiritual program. i have lived a long time adapting myself to what was expected or required of me by society, employers, and such. i spent so much time doing that that i forgot my own humanity. As i relearn what it is to be "ME", i find a new joy in living my life being considerate of others, acknowledging how my actions affect others, and how to stand firm on what truly works for me. As i rediscover myself, God, and society; i find a new freedom from not demanding things always go my way or/and having unrealistic expectations with everyone involved (including myself!). i take specific direction from my sponsor, but i also allow others to guide me in my recovery. Those that have faced situations sucessfully are those best qualified to help me. They may seem like like my mentors, but i just call them friends. They are very important to me and that's why i listen to them. There have been times in my life where i have sought 'professional' help, but all they ever did was focus on the apparent symptoms of my problems. As an addict, i need other recovering addicts who genuinely know what it's like to be an addict and who are living the way i really want to live. A life free from active addiction, a life that depends on a Higher Power called God, and a life that i am extremely grateful for.

That being said; communication skills were the first to be put aside when i was using. i lost touch with the needs of others as i was plowing through life running on self-will. i felt the pain from doing this and tried to isolate myself so i would not do as much harm. i became "locked and loaded" without even realizing it. Fear took root and ran my life in combination with resentment, arrogance, and anger. i became less God centered and every ability to be spiritual was laid aside in my efforts to get what i wanted when i wanted it. i caused alot of harm to those who couldn't get away fast enough, but most of all, i harmed myself. i fell into habits and patterns that i could not escape from on my own. The result was that i could not and would not take care of myself the way God had intended. My priorities became confusing and i lost direction for a long time. My emotional well being was twisted into self-destruction, my spiritual condition became decayed, and my mental clarity got lost in intellectual superiority.

The Twelve Steps help restore me to myself, to a relationship with God, and to the rest of society.
The Twelve Traditions help me to put spiritual principles first in dealing with myself and others.


i applaud your dedication to help those who come into your life!! i am grateful to have spent this bit of time with you finding out about your efforts and sacrifices!! Keep the faith strong and our hearts will always rejoice!!

CarolD

I've never been a patient in a treatment center
nor have I lived or worked in transitional houseing.

I was 52 when I quit drinking...my coping skills
were in place years before I became an alcoholic.
I'm not qualified to share on your topic.

My guess is this situation would benefit
from a consentrated community outreach
program patterned after the "Big Brothers"

Welcome to SR....

Mark75

Hi

Great topic

I guess I am like Carol in that I entered recovery at 51 years old. I maintained my career for nearly 25 years. I sank pretty low in my alcohol and pill addiction the last 2-3 years. I am 6.5 months in recovery. Thank God I still have career, home and family...

I get very much what you said about feeling like a human being rather than a recovering person.

I was in a 2 month rehab that was part of an intervention to save my career. While much of the rehab was helpful to me, alot of it was helpful to the "powers that be"... I can say that I would probably be struggling with active chemical dependancy if not for the rehab... but questions linger... could it have been an OP recovery program?

I am still sorting through many emotions... SHAME! brought on of course by my addiction and being discovered... Guilt at putting my family through a very traumatic set of events... and of course all those emotions associated with acceptance.... I am very much involved with AA which helps a great deal... I'm also in an outpatient program, which doesn't really help much at this point, especially as compared to AA, but it does help the "powers that be"...

The price I paid (besides the $$$) has been an overwhelming sense of stigmatization... rehab was, for me, dehumanizing. Perhaps that was necessary for getting me to the point I am now, so quickly, but it was traumatic. This has left me feeling not like a human being but a recovering, slightly defective, human being. I know these feelings are irrational, but they are feelings and as such are legitimate. I equate the rehab experience to chemotherapy for cancer... except that you don't lose your hair.

Now, I know that we have to "die" in a way, ie, I was in a self will run riot. I also knew I was in trouble with my alcohol and pill addictions and was trying to get out... so maybe it (rehab) was the only way...

To regain my sense of self worth and my credibility, both internal and external, will require continued sobriety, active recovery and most of all INTEGRITY. I can that, I will do that.

But, I guess that was not your ultimate question. But somehow, maybe it's related... But what really is your "mission", to treat addiction or to truly rehab the whole person?... how could a treatment center begin to look at work skills, etc... with the limited resources and time they must have. In our rehab there was extensive use of DBT and cognitive/role playing therapy... distress tolerance, interpersonal skills, etc... I think it was valuable for everyone there, perhaps on different levels... but, gee, so much else was going on, detox, group therapy, 12 step work... how to make it really stick in such a limited time frame...

Loved your question, sorry to ramble on, look forward to hearing more from you !!!!!

Mark

oldveteran

Wow! Great insight. This is really interesting. I will try to give a little more background. The transitional housing program can last up to 2 years. We are not a treatment center, but we do case management as far as helping with integration into the community and help residents deal with legal problems etc. Here is a brief description of a fictional resident:

A 55 yr. old male who has been in treatment 4-6 times, medical problems due to use and age, limited job skills at this point in his life and maybe $40,000 in back child support plus various fines and maybe some prison time in his past.

Even with all that, many of these guys really seem to want sobriety. Like I said before tho' there doesn't seem to be a lot of coping skills or they have been buried under years of use.

Because we are not a treatment center (they are still involved with the center) we do have the time and some resources to help them in other areas. I would like to spend this time and resources on any areas that would help them adjust to the "real" world. I guess I would liken it to being on a "treatment treadmill", they walk on the treadmill (AA/NA, aftercare, transitional housing, mandatory meetings of one kind or another, dept. of corrections etc.) and that helps to build the strength in their legs. However I think at some point in time they have to get off the treadmill and walk. The treadmill is always there if things get rough but again the purpose of our program is to integrate them back into the community. To that end I am interested in knowing how everyone who reads this post has dealt with those "problems" coping with everyday stuff, social skills, problem solving etc. and what would you suggest to help them build their strengths in these areas.

I spend a lot of time with these guys and there seems to be a general attitude of "I'm sick, defective, unable to adjust etc." I can relate in my own recovery (3 treatment centers, finally sober at 40 etc.) but like some mentioned above I had a few coping skills that I was able to brush off and that really helped. I still have problems in the social area but work on it. The mentor angle really helped too. I didn't ask someone to be a mentor, but I watched people I met and respected very closely in how they handled different situations and people-again a great help.

The reason for my first post is that about a year ago I set up a 4 day trip for 10 of us to a beautiful vacation cabin on a river for fishing and rafting. As I looked back at the group while planning activities for this summer, it dawned on me that only one out of the 10 has relapsed and eight of the ten have made a significant journey since then-(two to Mexico, two to Hawaii, one to the east coast etc.) Huge stuff! and I think there might be a connection to the cabin trip because it was just ten guys doing guy stuff, no agenda, no war stories, no facilitator, no therapy-just guys being guys and it seemed to have a profound effect on all of us (myself included, I was one of the guys that went to Mexico and Belize).

Sorry to make this so long but I get pretty jazzed talking about life and recovery!

Anyway I appreciate the comments so far and hope to see more--Great Stuff!!

oldveteran

By the way Coffeenut, thanks for the suggestion about moving the thread, but I don't know how.

Mark75

I see where you're going...

Don't have much personal insight. Great topic.

What if there were a Job Bank (I know, not a good economy now...) of employers that are aware of recovery issues, perhaps recovering themselves, that would be willing to consider applications, for training/employment? Volunteer activities... habitat for humanity... something that is really hands on.

Nice post

Mark

CAPTAINZING2000

Some people might call me a suck up but, I always thought it best to get along with people I've worked with.

I've never had a problem at work. I do my job and go home.
I spend my free time when, not in a meeting by doing activities with people in AA for the most part.


I didn't know, how much I isolated before AA. I've learned to pick up that 500 pound phone a lot more now days

joedris

Hey Old Veteran, You've nailed it. From my personal experience and observations I think that the greatest need people in recovery have is the need to relearn social skills. If you're going to succeed in any job you need to be able to communicate effectively with your boss and fellow workers. You also need to learn how to get along with others. Most in recovery have this paranoria that the world's against them, and thus can't learn how to accept help. They walk around with a chip on their shoulder when it isn't necessary. Someone has to teach these folks that the world's not against them and that most co-workers would be happy to help them. Sounds like your're just the guy to do it.

Gmoney

Oldveteran,

Very thought provoking thread.

The first thing that came to mind, after reading your post, is something I've been sharing since I got clean in 1998: "We addicts are a varied bunch." And what I mean by this is, there is no way I could honestly say what would be effective for someone else, and I'm sure that's not what you're asking anyway. I could offer an opinion (I've got a million of those ), but I do know what worked for me.

As I'm sure you already know, in recovery, we have the high-bottom addicts, the low-bottom addicts. We have addicts who never held a job or finished school and we have the educated addicts. We have those who've been abused and abusers. You name it...we got it. And from all the literature I've read, there's no definitive answer for what creates a higher rate of success for those who suffer from addiction. It has been my experience to witness those deemed "most likely to succeed" stumble and fall while those viewed as "not ready" go on to be productive and responsible members of society.

I got clean when I was 41 after numerous attempts to find recovery. Homeowner, college graduate, extensive employment history, loving & caring family, and a background of having respectful and successful role models. None of these "advantages" kept me from becoming an addict, nor do I believe they assisted me in getting clean or staying clean. The social skills and/or problem-solving skills I acquired during my life and prior to the "bitter ends" may have been a crutch that kept me in the realm of being "functional" for many years. I had no mentor, but I did have a wealth of personal experience to draw from once the fog lifted.

Although there were numerous instances when I behaved animalistically and anti-social (during active addiction), I can't say I ever questioned my manhood or my humanity. I never felt that I should be treated "special" because I f*#$ed up my life, but I do agree (based on my experience working with sponsees) that many who come into recovery after many years of using have lost the ability to utilize the skills they may have learned at an earlier stage of development or never learned them to begin with.

It is my opinion that desire, effort and time provides us with the best opportunity to be successful in recovery. I've met addicts who were illiterate and jobless when they surrendered, and now they have over 20 years clean with careers. I applaud your efforts to help and truly believe that no stone should be unturned when trying to assist addicts find a new way to live. Yet, we can give tools all day long...but it's up to each one to use them.

tflms

sarahmills

Keep up the good work of being sober for a long time now. Continue to believe in yourself that someday you will be totally free from alcohol.

Gmoney

Missybuns