Dime

I am more of the camp that adults should be responsible adults period. We should not try to take advantage of others whether it be sexual, money or whatever.

I know that some of the very best relationships of couples within AA formed while one or both of the couple was in early sobriety. Some of these folks are now married, have children and have some of the closest relationships I have ever seen and did not wind up going out.

Missybuns

I agree.

Pinkcuda

The book specifically says that God alone can judge our sex situations. Knowing that, I tell people that they are on their own. When I get a blank stare, I refer them to Step 3.

freya

Pink: Not sure exactly where you got the idea that anyone was judging or even talking about judging anyone's sexual behaivor. I haven't seen anyone do that, or even imply that, on this thread...and it is most certainly not the point of the workshop in any way. Sure, HP is, ultimately, the only judge of anything....but if I want to live my life in accoradnce with H's will for me, then it kinda does behoove me to take a good look at my behavior (around sex and/or anything else) and make some judgments about that myself based on what I perceive to be HP's will for me.

Also, as far as Step 3 goes (Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.), maybe you could develop the point you are trying to make a little more in relation to the topic of this thread? I mean, Step 3 is about making the decision; that's necessary and that's great, but unless one goes on to actually implement the decision in some meaningful way, it's really not worth a hill of beans. I mean, yeah, God can move mountains, but, in my experience, He's really not at all likely to do so unless I at least show up in the near vicinity of the mountain carrying a shovel.....LOL!!!...

.......So, the question here for this thread is more about what constitutes and what might be helpful for people in relation to this topic as far as their getting to the mountain with a shovel goes....

freya

kj3880

That is exactly what I mean, Freya. Sexual behavior is not outside of recovery. Recovery, IMO, is about every aspect of our lives. Because our relationship with our higher power, if we choose to have one, touches everything we do.

Sexual behavior is just like any other behavior in recovery. If we want to change, then we have to change our disfunctional (by this term, I mean it doesn't work) behavior. Even and especially sexual. That's why conferences and conventions do address sexuality. It isn't a separate topic from recovery. I addressed it in my step work extensively with my sponsor.

Many of us acted out and continue to act out in sexual ways. If we leave holes of ill behavior in our recovery life, then we leave a place for the disease to function against us.

If we use others for our sexual gratification without regard to their feelings, using people like objects, then how have we changed? We are supposed to learn in recovery to use things and love people, not to use people and love things. It's not about anyone judging others' sexual behavior, Pink. It's about us evaluating our own behavior and changing what distances us from our higher power. Sometimes I need to talk to others in recovery to work these things out. A conference or a sponsor can be helpful in this regard. I hope my sponsor and my network doesn't leave me "on my own" on the issue of my sexual behavior. Because look where my own thinking got me. That's why I need a network and a sponsor. I can't, we can!

Love,
KJ

freya

Nice line....one I haven't heard before, either!

freya

nelco

I really like that too, and its so true and in more areas than sex.

Hope you remember to get back on and let us know how it goes Freya, i would love to hear.

freya

Ok...so here's the status of my little project:

Last night I went "talker stalking" to women's AA meeting, and, lo and behold, my 3 top choices for an AA woman to co-lead the workshop were in attendance!!!. So, I asked choice #1, and she said 'yes.' I've heard her story before and have been impressed by how comfortable she is talking about sex -- both pre and in recovery -- and what a good sense of humor she has around it. Also, she's straight, which I thought was important since I'm not.

It looks like we are going to have 90 minutes for these workshops, so what I'm thinking right now is that maybe she and I will each talk for 10 or 15 minutes and, in the meantime, we will have handed out index cards and asked anyone who has a struggle or an issue that they'd like to hear some sharing about, to write it down on the card. That way women who are shy and/or uncomfortable, will be able to put thier issues out there without having to be identified with them.

So, after we're done with our opening remarks, we can collect the cards and just go through them, as many as we can, and share briefly on the issue and/or ask anyone else who has something to say on that particular issue to share, too. I guess we'll probably have to limit the time on each issue somehow......

I'm also working on putting together a little sheet with, like, references to good readings on sex and intimacy in program literature, so I'm still looking for more suggestions there, too.

Thoughts???? Suggestions???? Feedback??????

freya

Gypsy Feet

I would love if you would summarize it for us all after the talk. (trying to be vanilla here anna=) I have an over active sex drive myself. I thought being sober would affect it one way or another, but it hasn't. However, being sober does change how likely I am to find someone to snuggle, drinking really does make that part more likely to happen in some situations. My hope now is that, while I may not be seeing any action sober, when I DO start kanoodling again it will be more meaningful and satisfying.

joedris

Sex and alcoholism. Certainly the building blocks for any serious relationship. I'd love to help here, but take one look at me and you'd know I couldn't give it away. I keep me clothes on as a public service.

freya

So the Women in Recovery event was this weekend. It was very good and very intense --at least for me. Actually, I thing it's gonna take me a few days to "recover" from it! LOL! I ended up being the main Al Anon speaker, too, and I organized my story differenty than I have before and it went really well -- have to post about that in another thread.

Anyways, the "Sex in Recovery" Workshop:

It turned out about 3 weeks ago, the father of the AA woman I had asked to co-lead got ill and is hospitalized in Albany, and she has had to go up there on weekends, so she "drafted" this poor, young sponsee of hers to do it with me. I know this young woman from both AA meetings and some Al Anon meetings and I kinda felt sorry for her because she was definitely not comfortable with the whole thing.

But she was a trooper and she did it, and she did really well. She focused mainly on how dysfunctional upbringing, especially her relationship with her emotionally abusive alcoholic father had lead to her own drinking and to her acting out sexually while doing so. And then on how that's changed in recovery (she's sober ~5 years) to the point that she's now engaged to be married. And she talked some about the ways that sex is different and better in the context of her current relationship...and how her new skills as far as communication and being able to trust...and the fact that she just feels better about herself and knows that she deserves to be treated well.

Then I talked and basically said pretty much what I've said elsewhere on this site:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2226275

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2164676


Then we collected the index cards we had passed out and took turns reading off the questions/concerns people had written down. We opened it up for anyone who wanted to th share their ES&H as related to whatever the issue was.

So, here's what the issues were that people raised:

1. Don't want to be sexual with alcoholic spouse/partner. Don't like/are angry at the person or not attracted to him/her anymore and don't want to have sex. Feel guilty about not wanting to.

2. Alcoholic spouse/partner seems to also be sex-addict. Has cheated in the past. Spends a lot of time buying and viewing porn. Wants to have sex all the time but seems unable to be intimate in any other way. Trys to guilt me out about sex. (What is a sex addict/definition of sex addcition.)

3. I have a crush on my sponsor. What should I do?

4. Sober ~18 months. Starting to date. Afraid to tell sponsor. Sponsor hates and is always bashing men. She told me to wait at least 2 years before dating and I know she's going to get really mad and yell at me forever if I tell her.

5. I had no trouble being sexual when I was drunk, but I have been sober for over 5 years and still can't seem to trust anyone enough to be that vulnerable. I just can't seem to relax and feel comfortable and enjoyy sex anymore.......I'm not really sure that I enjoyed it drunk, but at least I thought I did.

6. Been sober a long time. Still hate to be alone and make really bad decisions about guys I get involved with. Recently started seeing someone who's married. It's a mess.

7. I was such a wh*r* when I was using. I'm afraid to get involved with a good man and have to be honest about my past. It makes me sick to think about it.

8. About 18 months ago, I made a conscious decision to be celibate for awhile while I work on healing some issues from my family of origin. Anyone have any advice on how I should handle it when I get feeling "hot-to-trot?"

9. How do we get men to communicate openly and honestly about their needs and feelings and to "hear" us when we try to communicate ours?

10. I hate just the idea of being naked in front of anyone. I feel like I can't stand my body and don't want to even think about it from the neck down.

Those pretty much encompass the main things people wanted to talk about. The really cool thing was that, after we read off some of the things people had written down and people started sharing about them, other people actually felt comfortable enough to bring issues up directly from the floor.

Also, several women (including my co-leader) said -- either during the workshop or afterwards -- that this was the first time that they had really spoken openly about their issues/experience and that it was very freeing/healing just to be ble to do so.

So, all-in-all, a successful event, IMO.

freya

Gypsy Feet

Thanks for that Freya, I am glad it went well. I read your linked posts and it is refreshing to read about healthy a sexual appetite!

freya

I'm not sure that I understand the question, but if it's about the event at which the workshop was held, it was a Women in Recovery event......Although I do not know for sure, my best guess would be that participation was about 70% AA women, 20% Al Anon, 10% other (OA, DA, SA, etc...). If you want to know more, reading the beginning of the thread would probably give you the info you want.

freya