Too much chatter about the "problem"
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,780
For me, it's easy to seem focussed on the problem rather than the solution, as I'm right in the middle of the problem this minute and the solution seems so far away. Logically, my head knows what's right and what will help, but my heart, my feelings, are so raw and hurting it's hard to even 'see' solutions, much less follow them.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: md
Posts: 3,042
Well, I would admit that atheism would put you in the minority. I always think of faith as a choice. Chosing to believe despite what doubts we have. I think that a lot of people who subscribe to atheism think that people of faith don't have doubts. Everyone has doubts. That's why I think faith is a choice.
I don't make fun of people or persecute them for their differences in or lack of faith in God. People can choose whatever religion or lack of religion they wish. I also don't censure anyone's opinions. And I don't expect anyone to do that to me. I feel that I express myself in a respectful manner.
I haven't said that I think a belief in God or a Higher Power is a universal one, nor that it is required for abstainance from drugs. I have merely said that I think anyone can choose to believe. That's what I think. You are free to disagree. I retain my right to pray for you or for whatever I want to pray for. It's a richer life with faith in it. I sincerely don't know how anyone can live happily or recover fully without faith. If you have found a way to do it, however, I'm glad for you.
KJ
I don't make fun of people or persecute them for their differences in or lack of faith in God. People can choose whatever religion or lack of religion they wish. I also don't censure anyone's opinions. And I don't expect anyone to do that to me. I feel that I express myself in a respectful manner.
I haven't said that I think a belief in God or a Higher Power is a universal one, nor that it is required for abstainance from drugs. I have merely said that I think anyone can choose to believe. That's what I think. You are free to disagree. I retain my right to pray for you or for whatever I want to pray for. It's a richer life with faith in it. I sincerely don't know how anyone can live happily or recover fully without faith. If you have found a way to do it, however, I'm glad for you.
KJ
mle-sober
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Golden, CO
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by sailorjohn 
And little about the solution. That thought came to me today, all this tension in these different forums, and the one common thread seems to be focusing on the problem-"what causes this" "why do they do that" "what is it called" "do you think it's this or that" Just a thought here, I think most of us are fully aware of what 'the problem' is, why aren't we talking about 'the solution'
I'm not even sure what you mean when you say this. It sounds like maybe you were feeling frustrated at the time with people disagreeing about how best to positively participate in a site with the words "SOBER" and "RECOVERY" in it.
I agree it can get frustrating. I empathize with you there. At the same time, I am constantly impressed at the ways in which such a diverse group supports and offers wisdom to each other. We are all so different and we come from all over the world and we are routinely united in trying to stay clean and sober. That's pretty amazing to me.
Don't let frustration derail you! Your voice is one of the voices that I nod my head to frequently.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,439
At the same time, I am constantly impressed at the ways in which such a diverse group supports and offers wisdom to each other. We are all so different and we come from all over the world and we are routinely united in trying to stay clean and sober. That's pretty amazing to me.
Don't let frustration derail you!
Don't let frustration derail you!
"There are many paths up the mountain, but the view of the moon from the top is the same." Anon.
“There are many paths to enlightenment. Be sure to take one with a heart.” Lao Tzu
All I can really do is share what worked for me, and hope that helps someone else, while keeping respect and an open mind about what's worked for other people.
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Northeast US
Posts: 1,340
Originally Posted by sailorjohn
And little about the solution. That thought came to me today, all this tension in these different forums, and the one common thread seems to be focusing on the problem-"what causes this" "why do they do that" "what is it called" "do you think it's this or that" Just a thought here, I think most of us are fully aware of what 'the problem' is, why aren't we talking about 'the solution'
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 679
Originally Posted by kj3880
Well, I would admit that atheism would put you in the minority. I always think of faith as a choice. Chosing to believe despite what doubts we have. I think that a lot of people who subscribe to atheism think that people of faith don't have doubts. Everyone has doubts. That's why I think faith is a choice.
I wish faith was a choice for me. I would gladly choose it. Unfortunately I cannot will myself to believe. I have wrestled deeply with this and will continue to.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 4,682
The solution will be whatever works for you to keep you sober, change your lifestyle and thought process. It doesn't really matter which solution it is at the end of the day as long as you are sober and do not keep relapsing.
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
What evidence do you have that people aren't talking about "the solution"?
i have read many of your posts, as well as those of many others here. i notice that many people are already sharing about solutions that worked for them and some that didn't. Truth is, everyone is at their own personal level of recovery(or relapse). You can no more expect that everyone share what you would like them to share here than you can control the wind. What i try to look for is the positive in what people say and let the rest go. Sure, there are some posts here that have little or nothing to do with recovery. Not everybody in each meeting i go to wants to find a new way to live either! So what? It's not a perfect world, it's not a perfect forum, and we are not perfect people.
If we can maintain our own spiritual well being in our lives, then we will be well equipped to help someone who honestly wants it. i was told early on in my recovery that if you want to keep what you have, give it away. The consistency of our message, no matter what 12 Step & 12 Tradition fellowship we are in, is that the only thing that has ever worked for us is total abstinence. Unity can be found in our diversity and all of us are just trying to live life on a daily basis. In giving someone else a break, you are also giving yourself a break. i was also told that it is better to be kind then it is to be right. At the end of each day, i know i have done the best i could.
As long as i have breath in my body & i do not use,
i will share a clear message of Hope and Freedom
because that is what has been given to me!
i have read many of your posts, as well as those of many others here. i notice that many people are already sharing about solutions that worked for them and some that didn't. Truth is, everyone is at their own personal level of recovery(or relapse). You can no more expect that everyone share what you would like them to share here than you can control the wind. What i try to look for is the positive in what people say and let the rest go. Sure, there are some posts here that have little or nothing to do with recovery. Not everybody in each meeting i go to wants to find a new way to live either! So what? It's not a perfect world, it's not a perfect forum, and we are not perfect people.
If we can maintain our own spiritual well being in our lives, then we will be well equipped to help someone who honestly wants it. i was told early on in my recovery that if you want to keep what you have, give it away. The consistency of our message, no matter what 12 Step & 12 Tradition fellowship we are in, is that the only thing that has ever worked for us is total abstinence. Unity can be found in our diversity and all of us are just trying to live life on a daily basis. In giving someone else a break, you are also giving yourself a break. i was also told that it is better to be kind then it is to be right. At the end of each day, i know i have done the best i could.
As long as i have breath in my body & i do not use,
i will share a clear message of Hope and Freedom
because that is what has been given to me!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Well, to be blunt, what I see, especially on the newcomers forums is a bunch of people co-signing each other's ******** (all in the name of "support") and staying sick together. Drama drama drama. The newcomers stay on those forums and don't venture into any of the other ones where there may be a solution talked about. Lately I've started to post on the newcomer's forums a bit more.
Then when a more experienced member dares to offer any kind of experience to help towards a solution, it is, as been said, picked apart as not being the right kind of solution, whatever that solution may be. Or at the very least disregarded.
I'm an AA, so that is the only experience I have to draw on. I used to think that hanging out at the Alano Club was the solution. We'd have these meetings where we would share our sickness, talk about the problem, or the latest drama in our lives, and huddle together in fear of what was "out there in the parking lot doing pushups." The newcomers forums here remind me a lot of those days.
If being in the same room with the same problem as me was sufficient to recover from alcoholism, the county jail would have worked.
Jim
Then when a more experienced member dares to offer any kind of experience to help towards a solution, it is, as been said, picked apart as not being the right kind of solution, whatever that solution may be. Or at the very least disregarded.
I'm an AA, so that is the only experience I have to draw on. I used to think that hanging out at the Alano Club was the solution. We'd have these meetings where we would share our sickness, talk about the problem, or the latest drama in our lives, and huddle together in fear of what was "out there in the parking lot doing pushups." The newcomers forums here remind me a lot of those days.
If being in the same room with the same problem as me was sufficient to recover from alcoholism, the county jail would have worked.
Jim
Last edited by jimhere; 03-07-2009 at 08:23 AM.
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