What would you say are the differences between NA & AA?
Recovered from Hopeless State
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Zero difference as far as the method is concerned. Both are based on the 12 steps of the Big Book which I now believe can successfully treat any psychological/spiritual disorder including obsession/addiction. The only difference is the fellowship; the people who attend. AA is mostly alcoholics but I've met many addicts of many things at AA, NA and CA meetings. There are more alcoholics hence more AA meetings but all are welcome.
It took me a long time, and many meetings, including "meetings" here at SR, to get myself to really buy into step 3. Once I finally did, the rest followed and sobriety, and a better outlook and life in general, came pretty quickly and easily.
It took me a long time, and many meetings, including "meetings" here at SR, to get myself to really buy into step 3. Once I finally did, the rest followed and sobriety, and a better outlook and life in general, came pretty quickly and easily.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Originally Posted by deeker 
I have a feeling it won't be long until the people that come through AA will be suffering from both alcohol and
drug addiction combined.
drug addiction combined.
I saw a ton of cross addicted people also..
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Originally Posted by sct
I'm recovering from Cathoholism, the "GOD" thing isn't an big turn-off for me. I simply don't relate to alcoholics as well as drug addicts. I am an addict. NA, is one disease, one fellowship.
... for a little clarification, the reason that other fellowships literature isn't discussed in NA meetings is because it dilutes the message. NA has a very specific message, that any addict can stop using, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live in Narcotics Anonymous. Endorsement of other fellowships implies that the 'real' solution is still somewhere out there. For me, that isn't the truth.
Sorry, brief rant. I'm a Traditions Junkie.
... for a little clarification, the reason that other fellowships literature isn't discussed in NA meetings is because it dilutes the message. NA has a very specific message, that any addict can stop using, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live in Narcotics Anonymous. Endorsement of other fellowships implies that the 'real' solution is still somewhere out there. For me, that isn't the truth.
Sorry, brief rant. I'm a Traditions Junkie.
its the same for me in aa i can not id at all with people who are duel addicted etc i can with there drinking side but will never understand the urge for a drug as for some reason i have managed to never use a drug other than booze i didnt use drugs as i believed they were danagerous for me i only wish i had that conviction for drink in me but i now know i am powerless over booze and always was and always will be but i am not powerless over drugs as i wouldn't pick one of them up
i am not trying to make me look bigger than anyone else etc i am just trying to be honest here
hence the need for na and aa to have seperate fellowships as we are not the same we will not id with each other
hence we have the trads to guide us
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Personally, I identify quite well with both although I was never cross addicted. I believe an addict is an addict. We all have the same spiritual malady and can all benefit from the same spiritual solution as defined in the Big Book. Any meeting about the method for recovery defined in the Big Book should be defined by that method, not the drug (of which alcohol is one). In rehabs, the term "drug of choice" is frequently used.
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Originally Posted by dSober
Personally, I identify quite well with both although I was never cross addicted. I believe an addict is an addict. We all have the same spiritual malady and can all benefit from the same spiritual solution as defined in the Big Book. Any meeting about the method for recovery defined in the Big Book should be defined by that method, not the drug (of which alcohol is one). In rehabs, the term "drug of choice" is frequently used.
they dont care about personal identification like aa does its our only tool to help people work out for themselves if there alcoholic or not
if i went to a rehab and it was mostly drug talk i wouldn't get any identification of my real problem. so i would have to look else where or just carry on drinking
i can not get away with it in an aa room as i id with them all as they all talk about me
so please remember rehabs are a business and its in there interests to treat as many different kinds of problems and try to base them all the same as it really would cost them a fortune otherwise
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Originally Posted by desypete
so please remember rehabs are a business
They are most certainly businesses. They are businesses full of addicts. Including, and most importantly, every member of the staff. As recovering addicts, they're the only ones who can understand, and possibly help, other addicts. They all understand that an addict is an addict, period. Simple.
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so please remember rehabs are a business and its in there interests to treat as many different kinds of problems and try to base them all the same as it really would cost them a fortune otherwise
D
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Originally Posted by Dee74
also remember that some of the revenue that keeps this site free and functioning comes from it's sponsors, many of whom are rehabs
The people who run rehabs are there to help fellow addicts. They're 12th stepping. They have expenses that have to be met so have to charge for their services when they're not funded solely by government and other benefactors. But they're not competitive with other means of recovering. They encourage them because they know every little bit helps and this makes they're life easier; makes them more successful.
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Originally Posted by dSober
The skeptic might wonder why they would do that...
The people who run rehabs are there to help fellow addicts. They're 12th stepping. They have expenses that have to be met so have to charge for their services when they're not funded solely by government and other benefactors. But they're not competitive with other means of recovering. They encourage them because they know every little bit helps and this makes they're life easier; makes them more successful.
The people who run rehabs are there to help fellow addicts. They're 12th stepping. They have expenses that have to be met so have to charge for their services when they're not funded solely by government and other benefactors. But they're not competitive with other means of recovering. They encourage them because they know every little bit helps and this makes they're life easier; makes them more successful.
until and old timer reminded me what 12th steping is all about and how much did i get charged for aa services etc
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Originally Posted by desypete
i dont charge for 12th stepping i just do it like was given to me for free, i was going to become a councilor in my early years as i thought i knew how to cure the world and i could make some money at it and also it would be my 12th step
until and old timer reminded me what 12th steping is all about and how much did i get charged for aa services etc
until and old timer reminded me what 12th steping is all about and how much did i get charged for aa services etc
There are free (for patients) rehabs. My wife went to one in upstate NY for 6 months. They had to feed, shelter and counsel, her. These expenses have to be paid for somehow. In patient treatment (sometimes the best or only viable route) cost more than out patient.
Thank God for AA (NA, CA, etc...). It provides a free (contribution only) out patient service which probably successfully treats more addicts than any other recovery option.
I would suggest however, for anyone who "knocks" other recovery methods, that they re-examine how well they are following ALL the maintenance steps: 10, 11 and 12.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by dSober
Do you board addicts?, feed them?, etc.. ? If so, how many?
There are free (for patients) rehabs. My wife went to one in upstate NY for 6 months. They had to feed, shelter and counsel, her. These expenses have to be paid for somehow. In patient treatment (sometimes the best or only viable route) cost more than out patient.
Thank God for AA (NA, CA, etc...). It provides a free (contribution only) out patient service which probably successfully treats more addicts than any other recovery option.
I would suggest however, for anyone who "knocks" other recovery methods, that they re-examine how well they are following ALL the maintenance steps: 10, 11 and 12.
There are free (for patients) rehabs. My wife went to one in upstate NY for 6 months. They had to feed, shelter and counsel, her. These expenses have to be paid for somehow. In patient treatment (sometimes the best or only viable route) cost more than out patient.
Thank God for AA (NA, CA, etc...). It provides a free (contribution only) out patient service which probably successfully treats more addicts than any other recovery option.
I would suggest however, for anyone who "knocks" other recovery methods, that they re-examine how well they are following ALL the maintenance steps: 10, 11 and 12.
just saying how i personally feel on the subject of why rehabs would try to treat all problems the same as its down to money for them as they do have costs to pay out like you say
a rehab wouldn't of worked for me simply because i ended up with no money and no family etc so aa was the only way i could go as it was free
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Originally Posted by desypete
why rehabs would try to treat all problems the same as its down to money for them as they do have costs to pay out like you say
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I just came back from one of my favorite meetings from years ago. It was an AA Big Book meeting. Mostly old timers but many newcomers. Several people addicted to substances other than alcohol. All were welcome and comfortable as far as I could tell. Two addicts of other substances identified themselves as such when they shared and nobody blinked. Now I remember why I always liked this meeting and went tonight; besides the fact that the guy who runs it was my sponsor for a while.
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I have been doing both NA and AA for a while. Yes I'm one of those dual addicts that are not meant to admit it according to some lol
There are a few slight differences between the two, over here at least. NA is a bit more casual with things like sharing from the seat, people coming and going during the meeting to smoke, coffee etc. and given the demographic of most meetings there (from my experience) is a lot of negraving and glorifying of using days with less recovery focus. its also not quite as hard core in regards to the BB and the steps are normally conducted using the workbook method of just answering questions etc. They are also more accommodating of dual addictions.
AA on the other hand (once again my experience) is a little more traditional and structured in the way meetings are conducted, the unspoken 'code of conduct', there are a lot more hardcore members focussed on the BB and the steps are a little more intense but less consistent across the board as its up to each sponsor to manage their own way.
Im struggling at the moment (AA 'vs' NA) and have not attended either for a number of weeks. (no I haven't relapsed). I was favouring AA as the environment was appealing compared to NA. However, the various AA meetings I was attending have just become very boring to be honest. Many of the same people attend the various meetings and are hard core AA'ers (around this area) who's shares are just a monologue of clichés, big book quotes and same jokes. (its no good when you know the punch line all the time). Also there is an issue with the whole dual addiction sager too. I will try NA again but funnily enough its not that recovery focused from my experience.
Anyway just my experience and observations im sure my HP will guide me in the right direction to one of them or an alternative program.
There are a few slight differences between the two, over here at least. NA is a bit more casual with things like sharing from the seat, people coming and going during the meeting to smoke, coffee etc. and given the demographic of most meetings there (from my experience) is a lot of negraving and glorifying of using days with less recovery focus. its also not quite as hard core in regards to the BB and the steps are normally conducted using the workbook method of just answering questions etc. They are also more accommodating of dual addictions.
AA on the other hand (once again my experience) is a little more traditional and structured in the way meetings are conducted, the unspoken 'code of conduct', there are a lot more hardcore members focussed on the BB and the steps are a little more intense but less consistent across the board as its up to each sponsor to manage their own way.
Im struggling at the moment (AA 'vs' NA) and have not attended either for a number of weeks. (no I haven't relapsed). I was favouring AA as the environment was appealing compared to NA. However, the various AA meetings I was attending have just become very boring to be honest. Many of the same people attend the various meetings and are hard core AA'ers (around this area) who's shares are just a monologue of clichés, big book quotes and same jokes. (its no good when you know the punch line all the time). Also there is an issue with the whole dual addiction sager too. I will try NA again but funnily enough its not that recovery focused from my experience.
Anyway just my experience and observations im sure my HP will guide me in the right direction to one of them or an alternative program.
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I got bored of the same old open speaker meetings. I still go from time to time but I kept hearing the same old stories and I've yet to hear mine. I've come to believe that the Big Book has the solution, or at least a solution, but to really find out if it works for me, I had/have to thoroughly follow the path. Fortunately for me, it doesn't say which meetings I should attend, or when or how often.
I may go to more speaker meetings in the future if/when my Higher Power tells me to. I believe it will be mostly to speak. For now though, I believe speaking, and listening, here is right.
I may go to more speaker meetings in the future if/when my Higher Power tells me to. I believe it will be mostly to speak. For now though, I believe speaking, and listening, here is right.
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Join Date: May 2014
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Originally Posted by pdoc
I have been doing both NA and AA for a while. Yes I'm one of those dual addicts that are not meant to admit it according to some lol
There are a few slight differences between the two, over here at least. NA is a bit more casual with things like sharing from the seat, people coming and going during the meeting to smoke, coffee etc. and given the demographic of most meetings there (from my experience) is a lot of negraving and glorifying of using days with less recovery focus. its also not quite as hard core in regards to the BB and the steps are normally conducted using the workbook method of just answering questions etc. They are also more accommodating of dual addictions.
AA on the other hand (once again my experience) is a little more traditional and structured in the way meetings are conducted, the unspoken 'code of conduct', there are a lot more hardcore members focussed on the BB and the steps are a little more intense but less consistent across the board as its up to each sponsor to manage their own way.
Im struggling at the moment (AA 'vs' NA) and have not attended either for a number of weeks. (no I haven't relapsed). I was favouring AA as the environment was appealing compared to NA. However, the various AA meetings I was attending have just become very boring to be honest. Many of the same people attend the various meetings and are hard core AA'ers (around this area) who's shares are just a monologue of clichés, big book quotes and same jokes. (its no good when you know the punch line all the time). Also there is an issue with the whole dual addiction sager too. I will try NA again but funnily enough its not that recovery focused from my experience.
Anyway just my experience and observations im sure my HP will guide me in the right direction to one of them or an alternative program.
There are a few slight differences between the two, over here at least. NA is a bit more casual with things like sharing from the seat, people coming and going during the meeting to smoke, coffee etc. and given the demographic of most meetings there (from my experience) is a lot of negraving and glorifying of using days with less recovery focus. its also not quite as hard core in regards to the BB and the steps are normally conducted using the workbook method of just answering questions etc. They are also more accommodating of dual addictions.
AA on the other hand (once again my experience) is a little more traditional and structured in the way meetings are conducted, the unspoken 'code of conduct', there are a lot more hardcore members focussed on the BB and the steps are a little more intense but less consistent across the board as its up to each sponsor to manage their own way.
Im struggling at the moment (AA 'vs' NA) and have not attended either for a number of weeks. (no I haven't relapsed). I was favouring AA as the environment was appealing compared to NA. However, the various AA meetings I was attending have just become very boring to be honest. Many of the same people attend the various meetings and are hard core AA'ers (around this area) who's shares are just a monologue of clichés, big book quotes and same jokes. (its no good when you know the punch line all the time). Also there is an issue with the whole dual addiction sager too. I will try NA again but funnily enough its not that recovery focused from my experience.
Anyway just my experience and observations im sure my HP will guide me in the right direction to one of them or an alternative program.
of course the war story can never change buts it a powerful tool for a new comer as they havent heard my war story yet
and the new comer shows me where i have come from and i dont want to go back there again
today you could offer me all the money in the world i wouldnt pick up a drink
however if you gave me the choice that my son would live and not of died if i picked up the drink i would of picked it up. to save my son
so i dont know really what that tells me as a person ? as i know it would be the only thing i can think of the way i feel today that would make me pick up a drink
i guess it means i am real living in the real world and not in fantasy land ? but i could be wrong
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Originally Posted by BoiledOwl
I'll come right out and say that I highly prefer AA (I'm an active member) over NA (which I started with). I'm very biased.
NA suggests that, "Relapse is a part of recovery," and AA suggests that, "With this attitude you cannot fail." I agree -- relapse is the end of a period of recovery, not a part of it, usually because one has not been thorough or honest enough in a program of ACTION.
When AA meetings begin, it is not necessary to ask members to please leave their weapons and paraphernalia outside -- there's a major difference in demographics.
That said, I heard a lot of people in NA talk about "triggers," people, places and things. Whereas in AA, I was taught that if you think you have a trigger, you're putting a condition on your sobriety. In AA, the Steps shoot for a spiritual experience, a complete psychic change/rearrangement, sufficient to bring about recovery from a hopeless state of mind and body. To hell with your triggers.
I've heard people say, "They're the same Steps!" To me, the two Fellowships seems to have quite different approaches as to what type of recovery they're shooting for.
I'd love to read some thoughts on this.
NA suggests that, "Relapse is a part of recovery," and AA suggests that, "With this attitude you cannot fail." I agree -- relapse is the end of a period of recovery, not a part of it, usually because one has not been thorough or honest enough in a program of ACTION.
When AA meetings begin, it is not necessary to ask members to please leave their weapons and paraphernalia outside -- there's a major difference in demographics.
That said, I heard a lot of people in NA talk about "triggers," people, places and things. Whereas in AA, I was taught that if you think you have a trigger, you're putting a condition on your sobriety. In AA, the Steps shoot for a spiritual experience, a complete psychic change/rearrangement, sufficient to bring about recovery from a hopeless state of mind and body. To hell with your triggers.
I've heard people say, "They're the same Steps!" To me, the two Fellowships seems to have quite different approaches as to what type of recovery they're shooting for.
I'd love to read some thoughts on this.
First off, congrats on your sobriety! It's not a journey everyone gets to enjoy. Just some background - I'm from Akron (birthplace of AA) but I've found my recovery in NA. I'm active in H&I and other NA service and when I make it to September 5th, we'll celebrate 6.5 years!
To address some of your questions/statements:
NA literature does not say that "relapse is a part of recovery". Here's a small excerpt from the 6th edition Basic Text that addresses relapse for an example:
"Relapse is a reality. It can and does happen. Experience shows that those who do not work our program of recovery on a daily basis may relapse. We see them come back seeking recovery. Maybe they were clean for years before their relapse. If they are lucky enough to make it back, they are shaken badly. They tell us that relapse was more horrible than earlier use. We have never seen a person who lives the Narcotics Anonymous Program relapse." - This definitely coincides with your thoughts on action. It explicitly states (similar to the "with this attitude.." in AA) that a person who lives the NA program will not relapse. A bold statement if you ask me, but one that I have lived the last 6.5 years.
I've never been to an NA meeting where they talk about weapons, but I have been to quite a few that say something to the effect of "We ask that if you are holding drugs or paraphernalia to leave them outside of the room and return so that you may hear a message of recovery. This is for the protection of the group and NA as a whole." I don't hear this at every meeting, so I think it comes down to an Area or meeting group conscience on whether to include this statement or not. I don't believe that "NA as a whole" would even have an opinion on whether or not this statement should be included.
The demographics comment may be correct for your area. I think it really depends on where you are at. In Akron the last few years there has been a flood of heroin addicts into both fellowships. Most of them are "young" and a lot of them are getting and staying clean (or sober) in both fellowships. There's actually a bit of controversy in the Akron area where some folks in AA are "trying to change" the primary purpose of AA and allow members to share about their drug problem. It's sort of a big deal in our area and AA has reached out to NA to see how we can help. It's an ongoing process and if you'd like to find out more I'd be glad to elaborate on what AA and NA are doing to help each other around here.
God I hate the word "trigger". My previous sponsor used to say "unload the gun, then the trigger doesn't matter!". Trigger is a treatment word. It is no where to be found in NA literature (at least in the context we're talking about) Part of the issue that we are addressing in the AA/NA meetings we've had is the effect of treatment centers (sending folks pretty much just to AA) and some of the treatment language that is not used in either the Big Book or the Basic Text.
NA is similar in the idea of the "psychic/spiritual change". There is a line in the "It Works How & Why" (sort of NA's version of the 12 and 12) that states: "While abstinence is the beginning, our only hope for recovery is a profound emotional and spiritual change." There are several other examples regarding spirituality and reliance on a higher power throughout all NA literature as well.
I don't necessarily agree with your "type of recovery" statement. I think both definitely have different purposes: From AA's Problems other than Alcohol- "Sobriety - freedom from alcohol - through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps is the sole purpose of the AA group." From NA's Basic Text: "Our message is that an addict, any addict, can stop using drugs, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live. Our message is hope and the promise of freedom. When all is said and done, our primary purpose can only be to carry the message to the addict who still suffers because that is all we have to give." Even though there is a different primary purpose, I think both programs seek to help change folks at a spiritual or "psychic" level and instill the concept of a higher power, something bigger than addiction (or alcohol). There are definitely differences in the methods, traditions and steps, but I think that both fellowships can thrive independent of each other but always in spirit of cooperation.
Love and respect - Bill M.
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