What is a friendship? What is a relationship?

Old 07-26-2008, 08:41 AM
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These are tough questions needing good answers. Addicts come and go like the weather and establishing a place where one can start friendships is challenging for all. And relationships even more so… what can we do?

In the street world of booze and drugs the only rule is there are no rules. its all about my dog eats your dog. On the street addicts want to think they are buying and selling drugs, booze, sex, and fast toys to make it all happen and find that sweet spot to live some kind of life.

In our world of sharing and caring the only rule is don’t pick up. It’s all about friends love friends. In recovery the path-plan addicts want to think they are receiving and giving away experience, strength, and hope. Booze and drugs here ?! Sex and fast toys here ?! And all of us looking for that sweet spot again… so the prize remains’ the same but the game play plan is changed.

And what is game play plan? I dunno that we all will agree but to most it speaks to the quality of the game itself. Meaning usually pros have better game play then amateurs. But not always. Some players have natural gifts. Others can’t play decently if their life depended on it. Hold on now… their life does… what to do? And the plan? The plan is all the theory that moves the action. Makes things happen. Rock and roll it through the path.

In an established recovery fellowship for example SR we will have experienced and newcomers; and they come in five distinct flavors of their own such as: old timer in recovery but new to the forums here [that’s me] and that vice versa; and the newcomer to both; and the old timer to both; and all the middle ground in-between. And of course then the mods play too. So here we have all our players…. Heh heh

Ok so what to do?

I hope you guys that this thread attracts postings about your selves as I know that friendships and relationships is a big issue in recovery and no less on SR. We all want some. We all want to get rid of some. And a few feel they have none really, as to the way they see it. The mods try to make sure every one gets some at welcome, but that in itself can get stale for the member who won’t play in the game, or can’t play they have poorly decided for whatever reason.

Ok so the rest of this post then is going to be about my own early experiences in my 5 weeks or so here at SR. Simply put I love it here at SR. what is there not to like? Hahaha. I so mean that. I came here looking for fellowship and got blown away with the quality of the players here calling me out to play. You guys all rock and I thank you and you each know who you are to me because I made sure I told you. Yup I did.

I already got some time in clean sobriety and I like to be, honestly ok, i like hanging with the middle players and the newcomers, because that is where all the action and fun is. That is where lives are saved and lost, and that is where the heat keeps the joint jumping. And I just love that. Yes, I am super clean, but I loved the party atmosphere of the streets…so deep and sensual and exciting. I won’t believe anybody who says they were there, rocked with it, and now say they don’t miss the party air. That is denial thru and thru. i have no shame saying so and I have the credentials to back up my words. Tell anybody you’re gonna have a party filled with people who like to party and those guys will jam up and a great rockin party is on. Hahaha works every time. So beautiful.

So I guess I like to party, eh!

Yeah, that has been good for me and bad for me here at SR methinks. So ok then, that starts the thread going. i'll add more real soon...

Robby
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Old 07-26-2008, 01:55 PM
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Wow.
Powerful Stuff, Mechanical Man
That was really good reading, Robby and I wish there were more.
I'll be interested in the postings...
Nice....
Jaxy
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:08 PM
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These are very good questions Robby.

As with all questions I ask myself these days, I form my opinions based on my life experience, my total life experience not just my sober life experience. A good deal of my personal reflection, working the steps, making concious contact with my higher power is comparing my life before sobriety to my life today. The fact is I've lived the majority of my life butt backwards.

In meetings I hear friends described as people who give emotional support during times of duress...i.e. "When this happened to me I really found out who my friends were." That is invariably followed by something like... "Do you think any of my old using 'friends' were there or even gave a crap".

Whenever I hear this I get to thinking; In all honesty, if I were using I probably wouldn't be interested in what a recovering friend was doing either, or what emotional support they may need. I'd be much to busy doing my thing to be there.

I'm left with the feeling that I have very little experience at being a friend. My life was always consumed by the selfish thought that I need them, so I must do things to acquire them and keep them. Always self-centered....always!! "I can't believe after all I've done for you, you could treat me this way"....always with the balance sheet...keeping score.

Maybe that should be my game-plan, throw away the scorecard and start learning how to be a friend, a true friend, now that would be a change for the better for me.

Peace
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:39 PM
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I guess I don't really get the question...a friendship is one way we define certain relationship. My sponsor and I have a sponsorship relationship and part of it is friendship. I have co-workers who some are only professional but many are also friendships. I have had a couple of dates and the relationship is friendship, but also romatic.

But life and recovery is summed up for me by the word relationships. My relationship with the people in my life and my relationship to things...my house, my money, my car, my clothes (alot of this is a matter of taking care of the things in my life and properly using them as well). My relationship to spiriutality, society, politics etc.

Everything in my life is in relationship to something else.

The friends I had in my life today are the same relationships that I had when I was drinking...plus I have even more relationships with people in AA and minus my friends who were the liquer store owners...but even they are still people who were friends to me when I was drinking and who I simply don't see anymore because I cannot be in a liquer store. I still think they were some pretty nice, kind and caring people.

Anyways...like I said..don't really get this so I'll read with interest as others chip in

Thanks Robby.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by 353 View Post
I'm left with the feeling that I have very little experience at being a friend. My life was always consumed by the selfish thought that I need them, so I must do things to acquire them and keep them. Always self-centered....always!! "I can't believe after all I've done for you, you could treat me this way"....always with the balance sheet...keeping score.

Maybe that should be my game-plan, throw away the scorecard and start learning how to be a friend, a true friend, now that would be a change for the better for me.
353,
yeah. i'm with you on all of that. selfishness and addiction are definitely happily together and living in sin. for me acceptence of that fact won the day. keeping score just re-enforced my blind desires to justify my own character defects to promote my next misstep in my not being a good friend such as the classic "ahhh... who needs the f ucker anyways."

yup. keeping score in a game that we're always losing pisses us off no end. anger breeds resentments which nourish fake behaviours and in turn destructive responses to those behaviours. can't win for trying with that ****. yeah, toast that game card.

a true friend. wow. that rocks. imagine the possibilites. hahaha. i so drool at true friends now. thanks 353!

Robby
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
Wow.
Powerful Stuff, Mechanical Man
That was really good reading, Robby and I wish there were more.
I'll be interested in the postings...
Nice....
Jaxy
Jaxy,
i just love it when you talk to me that way, honeybee. please. don't stop. heh heh heh.

Robby
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:14 PM
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I have learned that friendships come and go. Some are broken, lost forever. Some should have never been, were just an illusion. Others remain, but are unforgiving and on the outskirts, never to return. Very precious few stay true. And those, even if silent and distant, are my favorites -could be brought back to life immediately and happily with a few words, with a brief checking in, just a simple, “How are you?”. And then there are those that are gone and disappeared, only to be visited with flowers laid on a grave and memories of some other time and place.
I’m still thinking on relationships in terms of SR? I don’t know if that word for me applies. I know it is true in here for many. In some sense, on some level…but perhaps a fleeting thing, a thing that helps and lasts while the SR network is connected.
But in the end, everyone logs off of SR at some point. To be left with what remains in the reality of every day, every night. Breathing in and breathing out. I think it’s what we do then that makes possibilities real. …Or real possibilities.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:52 AM
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Hi Horsey,

you're a special friend, thank you for being here. i too have experienced most friends come and go and its worth saying i've allowed my self to accept that's not unusual in fact it's the norm really. i used to examine myself harshly as friendships fractured, broke up, became dust, got blown away. now it's simple whatever.

i'm not dealing with dark harshness now, so things have really changed in the outside world, like never before. my friendship with self is thee key to friendship with others. i always knew that in a head sort of way, but now its written deeply in my heart. i wear my scars honestly today without shame and guilt.

my divorce is changing me, and i am grateful. divorce was a forbidden fruit for my ex and i before we realized we were just kidding ourselves. a happy marriage was not to be for us, and after several years of hardcore repair efforts, my ex and i freely agreed to separate 13 months ago after 22 years. better away with marriage altogether then a hellish existence.

ever since both our lives keep improving. we're strongly committed to a painless-as-possible divorce, and its working because we're friends of a new kind in a new relationship. i'm thinking brave new world.

i have discovered i am still fearful of relationships and friendships not because they may fail, i accept that, no its because they may fail but then horrifically linger on killing me yet again. my old fears are unjustified methinks and i am working through the awful storm. i am letting go and healing moment to moment on a steady charted course to where i have not been before. i am not alone with all my new friends and yet an unwanted loneliness clings to me stubbornly. in my journey that loneliness will be left behind in the dust from my path day by day until one fine day nothing is left of it. yay.

its not just about my sobriety any more. its about my quality of life, and a deeply wanted simple life lived simply. i have discovered that the most broken people who still have love for more than themselves are the best people in the world. i have found these people here at SR in greater numbers in one place then i have ever known any where else in my entire life.

Robby
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Old 07-28-2008, 01:58 PM
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Hi Robby,

Very interesting post. Where I am at in my life is quite different.

Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
In our world of sharing and caring the only rule is don’t pick up. It’s all about friends love friends. In recovery the path-plan addicts want to think they are receiving and giving away experience, strength, and hope.....And all of us looking for that sweet spot again… so the prize remains’ the same but the game play plan is changed.
Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
I hope you guys that this thread attracts postings about your selves as I know that friendships and relationships is a big issue in recovery and no less on SR. We all want some. We all want to get rid of some. And a few feel they have none really, as to the way they see it.
A major part of my recovery and sobriety is accepting the kind of person I am. I have a few close friends, a good relationship with my wife, and many acquaintances. I do, however, really enjoy being alone – fishing, mountain biking, reading, listening to music, internet. It is when I am most at peace. That’s who I am. I don’t “force” friendships. In my drinking days, I was trying to be someone I am not – a flashy, outgoing guy surrounded by trendy people. I needed people to like me.

I’m quite content letting nature take its course, people coming into my life or drifting away. I approach SR the same way. I am very grateful for everyone on this site. They are all here to recover or to help those who are suffering. And they come and go.

Originally Posted by RobbyRobot View Post
Yes, I am super clean, but I loved the party atmosphere of the streets…so deep and sensual and exciting. I won’t believe anybody who says they were there, rocked with it, and now say they don’t miss the party air. That is denial thru and thru
I don’t miss the “party atmosphere” (I know, you don’t believe me ). When I think of that lifestyle, I think of my old drinking buddies still sitting in our favorite blues bar getting drunker & drunker, blacking out, trying to have fun at any cost, disrespecting others. Then the hangover, the morning drinks and right back at it. No, I don’t miss it. Very occasionally, I do get that “it would be nice to go out for a beer with the boys” feeling but it is fleeting and smashed with a good dose of reality. Is this denial?

For me, the bottom line is that I am enjoying sobriety, the recovery journey, and this lifestyle much more. I found my “sweet spot”.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gravity View Post
I don’t miss the “party atmosphere” (I know, you don’t believe me ). When I think of that lifestyle, I think of my old drinking buddies still sitting in our favorite blues bar getting drunker & drunker, blacking out, trying to have fun at any cost, disrespecting others. Then the hangover, the morning drinks and right back at it. No, I don’t miss it. Very occasionally, I do get that “it would be nice to go out for a beer with the boys” feeling but it is fleeting and smashed with a good dose of reality. Is this denial?

For me, the bottom line is that I am enjoying sobriety, the recovery journey, and this lifestyle much more. I found my “sweet spot”.

hi gravity,

i am so glad you posted. i really respect your path and your revelations. your name is so confirming of your style. thank you for being here.

you know, its not denial. if i remembered the "party atmosphere" and with it came all the rest of it, like it does for you, and like it was when i was drinking, and my own early sobriety, and i "liked that", well, yup, i would have gotten drunk a very long time ago.

as the years of sobriety carried me along i changed with it. many things that botherd me in early sobriety no longer have the same effect. however, thinking of my drinking buddies would still effect me today the same way. as a matter of fact, some of them drank them selves to death. nothing to party there with.

"the party air" is the action, the excitement, the heart of it. the booze does not make the party. the people do. what i'm saying is once you get past all the booze the party is still there, rocking away happily everywhere people want to party. it took me years to take the booze out of that picture because i only knew the party air with booze and me in it welded together.

its different now. i can enjoy anything that any body else as a normal citizen would enjoy in a normal night out on the town. i no longer see people dying or hating or hiding, same as i didn't when i had to be drunk not to see it.

the world does not live in my head anymore, [lol] [and i'm not saying it lives in yours ] and i dont have to be drunk to party anymore, and eveybody with a drink in their hands is not a lost alcoholic in my thinking. of course i can never drink again.

no gravity, your not in denial, brother. your in reality, with the memories you still have coming up like they do. rock on. so then though, my being able to choose not any more seeing what you see, and what i used to see, am i in denial?

Robby

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:09 PM
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Hi Robby,

I get what you mean. I was equating “party atmosphere” to getting drunk, getting high, and the debauchery of it all. This is what my drinking had become and this is what I absolutely do not miss. I also accept that in my life, I did have some great times when I was drinking. But that’s the past. They are good memories but that’s all.

I agree, get past the booze and the party is still there. It was one of the “revelations” of my sobriety – most people who party do not get drunk, many don’t even drink. Before sobering up, I couldn’t imagine enjoying a concert, football game, or any celebration without getting drunk. I now go to concerts, football games (just last week) and the atmosphere is electric. I have been to large family gatherings, many people drinking and I had a great time. So no, I don’t miss this atmosphere because I still enjoy it.

I am certainly not anti-alcohol and if people can handle it, that’s fine (I better be fine with it, my wife drinks ). Even if people want to get drunk and as long as they don’t hurt anyone, I’m okay with it. I just don’t romanticize it and make it something that I feel I need to make my life complete.

I think we are on the same page with this, just different perspectives.

Take care.

Don
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ananda View Post
I guess I don't really get the question...a friendship is one way we define certain relationship. My sponsor and I have a sponsorship relationship and part of it is friendship. I have co-workers who some are only professional but many are also friendships. I have had a couple of dates and the relationship is friendship, but also romatic.

But life and recovery is summed up for me by the word relationships. My relationship with the people in my life and my relationship to things...my house, my money, my car, my clothes (alot of this is a matter of taking care of the things in my life and properly using them as well). My relationship to spiriutality, society, politics etc.

Everything in my life is in relationship to something else.

The friends I had in my life today are the same relationships that I had when I was drinking...plus I have even more relationships with people in AA and minus my friends who were the liquer store owners...but even they are still people who were friends to me when I was drinking and who I simply don't see anymore because I cannot be in a liquer store. I still think they were some pretty nice, kind and caring people.

Anyways...like I said..don't really get this so I'll read with interest as others chip in

Thanks Robby.
Hi Ananda,

well i've been trying to agree for a couple days now that you don't really get this, even though the first instant i read your lovely post i knew you did get it.

so Ananda, i'm just going go ahead now and say thanks for posting and i really love the way you "get it" ok!!

Robby
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Old 07-29-2008, 03:33 PM
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Robby.

Thank you.
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:48 AM
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Hmmm. I have to say something here. I disagree that addiction started for all people with a party atmosphere and it just isn't true that all addicts love street life. Not me. I became physically dependant to opioids after surgery in pain management. I never went to a party and got high. I was too sick after my surgeries to party when I was developing my dependance. And I've never bought any drugs on the street. So it is not about the "fun" and social aspect to me. My addiction was private, isolating, and secret.

Only my boyfriend, who was also opiate dependant and alcoholic, knew. Not all addicts like the street life. I'd hate it, I'm a very quiet shy girl in person, and I hate loud, smoky scenes. I don't even like parties at all. I like quiet times, small groups of family and friends around me, or to be alone, reading or writing, creating.

But certainly, everyone is different, there are probably a lot of people who liked that and that may have contributed to their addiction. Just not everyone though.
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:26 AM
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kj3880,

thanks for posting. ummm, i didn't really say all addiction started with a party and all addicts love the street, i said "I won’t believe anybody who says they were there, rocked with it, and now say they don’t miss the party air. That is denial thru and thru."

i totally understand that you did not "rock with it" and that is ok. So just so you know i did not say or mean everybody, KJ. I did not always "rock it" either, and spent a great deal of my time too in medical seclusion, totally drunk, stoned, and alone... so ya, i did that too... and i have empathy for your experiences.

thanks for posting
RR

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Old 08-02-2008, 08:42 AM
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I, too, do not care for social scenes and gatherings unless it is a classroom or gathered for some purpose.
I like the adrenelin fix of traveling and experiencing other cultures. Concerts, live performances, snorkeling, doing something NEW! I like kidding around and enjoy the many different senses of humor here!

I also love SR, I find more interesting people here than anywhere else. I have been here awhile and I tend to have few but close friends. And there are others I am getting to know. We do have real relationships, we exchange mail, and some talk on the phone, I just chatted for over an hour with my closest friend here last night. I don't worry about friendships coming and going because real friendships develop over time and are built on sturdy foundations, I think those friends will be friends for life. Some of us just don't click that is okay. It is no loss, we just learned that we don't share whatever it takes to be compatible. I read alot of threads all around the board and enjoy the diversity of people and everyday I learn.
And I like flirting and kidding with Robby but it is his mind I am really after! Who is Robby?
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:08 AM
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Smile

Originally Posted by liveweyerd View Post
And I like flirting and kidding with Robby but it is his mind I am really after! Who is Robby?
liveweyerd,
i don't know what to say, i really don't. i had thought.... well.... i had thought it was my body, you know... the pure physical thing... the sensual and the concrete, the confirming sense of touch. Can that touch sense be done over the internet?.... somehow be sensed!! if it only could, think of the possibilites.... omfg

i just... mebbe if... we could...

Who is Robby? And where is his mind? i am after it too, Tena.

i am going to seriously look in the last place he left it. now, if i could only remember...

Tena,
you so rock me
Robby
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:24 AM
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I think I write pretty descriptively of the concrete and the senses.
And no, I don't mean the kidding around with the s&m and other dirty jokes.
I write of the sensual feel of the headache tablet and running my hands through my hair, gently raking my nails across my scalp, I write of floating in the lake at night....and those are all bodily and meant to evoke identification with and the image of those things.

what do you think?

And if you don't answer my question sooner or later I am going to be mad at you...and I am not going there here because you WANT to be punished! LOL
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by liveweyerd View Post
And if you don't answer my question sooner or later I am going to be mad at you...and I am not going there here because you WANT to be punished! LOL
want to be punished? well... i will confess that i DO love it when you punish me because it feels soooo gooood when you stop!!

RR
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:50 AM
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ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!

Good one!
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